Are some Muslims afraid of debate?

[Sarmad]

And because they do it so should we?
Apart from that, Terrorist fight in geurillastyle. Not that easy to fight off

become pseudo-guerillas and then secretly deliver intelligence back to the law enforcers, yeah why dont the people pretend to be insurgents and then kill the terrorists when they get close to them?

 

[Abdul Fattah]

become pseudo-guerillas and then secretly deliver intelligence back to the law enforcers, yeah why dont the people pretend to be insurgents and then kill the terrorists when they get close to them?

You can't just kill somebody because he will kill. Capital punishment works after commiting murder, not prior to it. you can detain, prevent the person to attack innocent people, but if you murder him on ground of suspision, what's the difrence between teh executer and teh executed?

 

[Sarmad]

You can't just kill somebody because he will kill. Capital punishment works after commiting murder, not prior to it. you can detain, prevent the person to attack innocent people, but if you murder him on ground of suspision, what's the difrence between teh executer and teh executed?

i am against capital punishment and pro-muder in this instance, anyhow thats not important nor is your thing about detaining cos law enforcers dont arrest or detain terrorists they blow them up with bombs, and why suspicion when you have infiltrated and you see the ideology you know you dont need anymore evidence. I must say their is too much "cant do this cant do that" thats why the terrorists seem to be winning.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

so let me put it another way why do muslim countries not have anti-hate laws and religious hatred bills, and all the many laws the west have come up with?

You can't paint all Muslim countries with the same brush. Some do, some don't. It it certainly something to work on.

well the countries have visible terrorist groups hamas

Hamas is the government, so it is not an issue of law enforcement vs. terror here. If you want to discuss state terror in that region we need only look at the recent events.

is islam not equipped for 3rd world countries

It has nothing to do with Islam, I am speaking of the infrastructure of the country. There are third-world countries with a poor infrastructure that have Christian majorities too, does that mean that Christianity is not suited for 3rd world countries? You need to open your eyes and realize that religion is not the issue here.

surely your law system should be able to root out terrorism and ideology in all worlds.

Islam is the system of laws which denounces and condemns terrorism. It is up to us to put it in practice and 'root out' those who violate these laws. Islam is not a person who roots things out.

you know hamas executes anyone who is found out to have told about a suicide bombing before it happens, their was a women a couple of weeks back and they got her brother to shoot her in the head i felt so sorry for her.

Always back up what you say with evidence, please.

i think i am asking for an islamic revolution against the terrorists.

And yet you are ignoring the causes. You refuse to recognize that terrorism is bred by a complex variety of environmental factors. Let me give you an analogy: Suppose there is a community that lives near a waste facility or some other factory that leaks pollution into the area. As a result, disease starts spreading in this community so they ask others for help and you tell them to simply buy medicine. That isn't going to help if you don't address the cause of the problem.

Likewise, the problems today in the Muslim world stem from a variety of factors especially those socio-economic, military or political. Just blaming Muslims and asking for Muslims to start some imaginative 'revolution' isn't going to help if you don't assist in spreading education, improving the economic and political infrastructure of the countries, removing the injustices and violence which breeds the hatred, and opening the doors to understanding and dialogue.

 

[Sarmad]

What about the colleteral damage? All the innocent muslims who fell victem of this "hard hitting"?

[/QUOTE]

i was talking about rooting out cells in western countries, as for collateral damage - i just dont know how else you can eliminate for sure, its horrible that innocent people die and i will say this that when oriental or muslim people are killed in their hundereds people dont really feel much but when one white person is killed in the orient or in a muslim country then its a big thing in both the east and the west, i think its about respect on a subliminal level we all have more respect for westerners when it comes to others their is a death of conscience and that is sadffended:

 

[Woodrow]

become pseudo-guerillas and then secretly deliver intelligence back to the law enforcers, yeah why dont the people pretend to be insurgents and then kill the terrorists when they get close to them?

That is a good example of what the terrorists do. Does this mean that under some cicumstances terrorism is Jusified?

 

[Abdul Fattah]

i am against capital punishment and pro-muder in this instance, anyhow thats not important nor is your thing about detaining cos law enforcers dont arrest or detain terrorists they blow them up with bombs,

law enforcement blows terrorists up... euhm maybe in some places, but I don't think that's the general way of dealing with it.

and why suspicion when you have infiltrated and you see the ideology you know you dont need anymore evidence.

There's a difrence between intent of a crime and comitting a crime. It's not about evidence, it's a question of law and punishment.

I must say their is too much "cant do this cant do that"

Yes obviously we follow our way and you follow yours. why do you expect us to throw away our ways? Just because it would entertain you? Are you getting lonely down there in hell?
(btw, readers that might not have noticed, lucifers profileinfo says: location: hell; just to show where that comment came from and so nobody would think I'm passing judgements here)

thats why the terrorists seem to be winning.

It aint over 'till it's over. We'll see who's winning and loosing on the day of judgement. And with that in mind, you might see why we "can't do this, can't do that"

 

[Sarmad]

I am speaking of the infrastructure of the country

How does infrastructure influence shariah in muslim countries?

“It is up to us to put it in practice and 'root out' those who violate these laws.”

Then why don’t people? Is it poor education of Islamic laws?

Always back up what you say with evidence, please.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Security/8574.htm

“And yet you are ignoring the causes”

trus me when I say I understand because I have witnessed it myself and my people destroyed all the terrorists by terrorising the terrorists.

but I don't think that's the general way of dealing with it.

can you show how else they do it its always shoot first ask questions later.

it's a question of law and punishment.

even if the people are lawless

why do you expect us to throw away our ways? Just because it would entertain you?

this is a very serious issue but you seem to think that i am need of entertaining?

We'll see who's winning and loosing on the day of judgement

thats too late

That is a good example of what the terrorists do. Does this mean that under some cicumstances terrorism is Jusified?

you can terrorise terrorist and it will be justified, you terrorise innocents and that will not be justified, terrorists ask for an atrocity innocent people do not ask for an atrocity, terrorsits are askin for it.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Even if the people are lawless

The basi principle of crime and punishment exists in a lawless enviroment. Ponit is, you cannot simply kill someone because of what he "could" do. Doing that would make us no better then teh terrorists themselfs.

this is a very serious issue but you seem to think that i am need of entertaining?

Our religious obligations are the upmost serious thing of all, what other reason. The most important thing in this world, as this world is merely a test. So whatever reason you can bring for us to forsake our obligations and restrictments are inadequate. The reason I asked wheter it was for "your" entertainment, was because back then you were posting under the name of "lucifer".

thats too late

Wheter or not you believe in teh comming of this day is a personal matter. However, you cannot contemplate the notion of such a day and at the same time suggest that it's to late. If the day comes (and it surely will) then that means this life is but a test for that day. And that day is not to late but right on time; following the test that went before it.

you can terrorise terrorist and it will be justified, you terrorise innocents and that will not be justified, terrorists ask for an atrocity innocent people do not ask for an atrocity, terrorsits are askin for it.

No, two rights do not make a wrong. You cannot mistreat peopel on the base that your victems mistreat peopel by themself. It is hypocrite.

 

[?...]

I don't know much about Islam but from what i see on the t.v. it seems to be that a lot of Muslims when they get challenged about their faith resort to threats of violence. Like the danish cartoon stuff. Does anyone else here agree or disagree with this?

No

i think the media aims the minority weak ones.

Inshallah Majority wake up.

 

[SirZubair]

Its not that their scared of debate its just they get carried away with recalling what scholars have said, muslims need to take time out away from mosques and parents and learn Islam for themselves, its not enuff to come on the forum and agree with the person who writes the most, quality not quantity people

Too true.

Alot of muslims out there need to Get Out There and find out what islam really is.

I know too many people,whom i ask questions about islam,and they reply with. "my dad said..." "...my mum said..." and more than half the time it is clear that their parents are following their culture rather than islam.

aud'billah.

wa'salaam

 

[Ghazi]

Too true.

Alot of muslims out there need to Get Out There and find out what islam really is.

I know too many people,whom i ask questions about islam,and they reply with. "my dad said..." "...my mum said..." and more than half the time it is clear that their parents are following their culture rather than islam.

aud'billah.

wa'salaam

Sadly the muslims of today are spoon fed information and this cause blind following ect.

 

[Kidman]

That's how the government rules the nation to making them believe what they see.

They make them work from 9-5... do whatever chores after 5... then the person gets home and is tired, might watch their favorite TV show, turn on fox news... and is too tired to do actual research on what is goign on... if it is true or not, so they just believe it, then next day is the same.

kidman

 

[SirZubair]

Let's run through that, Christianity should not be judged by Christians, America should not be judged by Americans (especially Bush), atheism should not be judged by atheists. Where are we going to stop?

We stop where common sense kicks in.

And common sense tells me that a rational minded person wouldnt judge a religon according to the actions of its followers.I for one,judge people for their actions.I dont resort to "..those christians.." "..the jews.." "..bloody armrika...",..Islam doesnt believe in Collective guilt. And thats where this ends.

Wa'salaam.

 

[SirZubair]

Why is their never jihad against the terrorists who used islam to validate extremism?

Just for you..actually,for anyone that is interested.

click HERE

A PDF ( Why_don_t_Muslims_condemn_terrorism.pdf ) file has been attatched on that forum by a member called Anon1.

I cant load it on here,so go there and check it out.

wa'salaam.

Do you think land acquisition can be accomplished through education?

Dialogue can bring about the changes in this world that a man holding a Sword cant even dream about.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

A reliable scholar can teach you alot mroe about Islam than you could by just picking up the Qur'an and expecting to understand everything. The best Taalib ul 'ilm used to learn from trustworthy teachers, so I don't see how we can expect to achieve more by teaching ourselves the deen. But ofcourse it is up to us to seek the knowledge.
W'salaam

 

[Sarmad]

If you had the knowledge then surely you would have all the answers and peoples questions would end but the simple answer is that you dont, perhaps a simple non-muslim can discover more about koran than those with the special "ilm".:thankyou:

I dont agree with your idea of learning from others and it is ok that people dont I have no intention of spreading rumours but I have the intention of researching MYSELF and drawing my own conclusions for MYSELF and not infringin my learning on any other than MYSELF.

It is ok to share your learning that should not be equated with spreading rumours simply agree to disagree.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

But if you don't know the full history or the background information, you can easily misunderstand things. And it may even really confuse you. Anyway, in Islam we don't believe that any Tom D!ck or Harry can interpret the Qur'an. It may lead you saying of Allah that which is not true. And that truly is a dangerous situation to be in.

 

[Sarmad]

But if you don't know the full history or the background information, you can easily misunderstand things. And it may even really confuse you. Anyway, in Islam we don't believe that any Tom D!ck or Harry can interpret the Qur'an. It may lead you saying of Allah that which is not true. And that truly is a dangerous situation to be in.

But thats why I said I wouldn't force my beliefs on anyone else if I was wrong then only I will suffer the consequences, people may read what I write and it may feel sensible to them too and as more people believe then perhaps the nature of the "ilm" will change and people will be more inclined to look and learn for themselves.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

All i'm saying, is that if you were Muslim, you would be sinning. But since you're not, I guess that is of little concern to you. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
-Peace