Greetings HeiGou,
Just in passing, it is perhaps worth pointing out that no Muslim knew that the Quran contained any mention of scientific miracles until Western scholars, who as it happens received large amounts of money from the Saudis, pointed it out.
How would you know that "no Muslim knew" of any scientific miracles mentioned in the Qur'an? Surely by reading passages such as those describing cloud formation, they better understood such processes, the details of which have only just recently been discovered. Regarding the creation of the Universe; the Qur'an even confirms beliefs of modern cosmology - such as the universe initially being a cloud of smoke, and these accurate descriptions have been recognised by well-known scientists. Now a person reading the Qur'an 1400 years ago might not have been aware that that the Universe being smoke is a fact that can be proven, yet he believed in the matter all the same, and his belief would only be strengthened had cosmologists been able to confirm the Qur'anic descriptions.
Furthermore, how can you say that it was the 'Western scholars" who identified the scientific miracles; when during a time known as the 'Dark Ages' for Europe, the Islamic world created the greatest legacy of scientific knowledge seen in history to that date. The sciences of medicine, geometry, astronomy and even sociology were developed systematically for the first time. All this was a result of the Arabs being brought out of a life of superstition and degeneration, and instead began following a path of reason as a result of the 'light' brought to them in the Qur'an.
What they did know was more or less what the Greeks knew (embryology for instance).
The genesis of Islamic civilization at that time was indeed a collaborative effort, incorporating the learning and wisdom of many cultures and languages. Yet Muslims did not only incorporate other cultures, but developed their own through experimentation and observation; this being the real source of Islamic science. Read more
here.
By the way, the allegation that the Qur'an plagiarised Greek embryology has been refuted
here.
The Big Bang is a perfect example. Does the Quran refer to this? Clearly, in my opinion, it does not. But my opinion is perhaps not relevant. Did any Muslims know it referred to this before it was explained to them? No they did not.
Well Allaah does not tell us that the Universe created itself; rather He said that He created it. Yet there are descriptions about its early stages such as the heaven and earth being a united piece and the description of it once being smoke, which conform to scientific beliefs. So although people might not have referred to the initial creation of the world as 'The Big Bang', they believed in events that have become a part of today's Big Bang theory.
Is there a single thing in the Quran that traditionally Muslims have believed that Western science rejected but later found to be true? No.
Well a simple matter that springs to mind is hygiene. While cleanliness in as late a time as the nineteenth century was still at a stage of taking baths between periods of the likes of a month if not longer, Muslims were ritually washing at least once a week as ordained through their religion. The Qur'an not only commands washing after being in a state of ritual impurity but also after defaecating and of course in preparation for the daily prayers. Perhaps better hygiene could have saved places like England the many epidemics arising from such poor living conditions.
As a scientific book it is useless. It predicts nothing.
Nothing? What about all its referrals to cloud formation, mountain stability, embryology and various other topics; so much of this has only been brought to light relatively recently yet you say it is useless as a science book?! It might not have bee intended to teach solely science, yet that does not mean it does not contain any accurate scientific information.
The amount of contortions you have to do to make it refer to the Big Bang is enormous.
I don't think so. The verses mentioning the various stages of creation are quite clear:
41:11 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
51:47 AND IT IS We who have built the universeAsad(51,30) with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.Asad(51,31)
And traditionally Muslims have been utterly unaware of what it is supposed to say.
That seems like a very foolish statement indeed. Muslims have spent vast amounts of time studying the Qur'an and inheriting the enormous amounts of knowledge pertaining to it from the scholars of previous generations - leading right up to the best teacher of all: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). To say that nobody at all knew what the Qur'an was referring to is ridiculous and of course baseless.
Sheik Bin Baz of Saudi Arabia probably did not say the world was flat because the Quran said so. But he did say the Sun went around the Earth because the Quran said so.
Would you mind sharing any sources for this?
Greetings root,
For a scientist, logic usually trumps belief; and belief trumps logic for a creationist.
Not so; logic can never trump true belief since our sense of logic is given to us by the same Creator who created us to believe. Perhaps it is certain people's logic that needs to be questioned... since they find it quite acceptable to believe that the Universe came about from nothing, or from something which nobody has yet worked out; yet consider the fact that the Universe was created by a Creator to be unacceptable.
please do not attempt to convince us to merely 'believe' that evolution is wrong,
I don't think anyone is asking you to 'believe' it's wrong. On the contrary, I think they are trying to show, by use of logic, how evolution cannot be a valid explanation on its own.
and please do not attempt to pass off your belief as evidence.
As evidence for what? Evolution being wrong? Refer to the point above.
Please bear in mind arguments against evolution should be logical/factual.
I'll bear that in mind, though I think many arguments have already been logical and factual.
"How do I know the koran is the word of god, because the koran tells me"
A strawman fallacy if I ever recognised it! A more accurate answer is actually explained
here.
Regards
.
....im jus confused :rollseyes :rollseyes
:rose:
eace: