Originally Posted by root
but what is this "nothing".
Who created the "nothing" that the universe is expanding into?
Sabi - Seems to me that you are well on your way to finding God. That is where I started at least. I thought to myself, well I suppose that is just "it which is", then I found the ancient Hebrew way of saying those three words and absolute peace entered my being.
The fact remains that I am very happy in the knowledge nobody created "nothing".
Quote:
Originally Posted by root
I find space best described as the void between two atoms?
Sabi - Me 2. There is infinite space between them, and I find that mind-blowingly beautiful.
Quite.
There is a difference between your supposition and my own way back. Mine was based upon this string of 5 concepts
no thing can not exist
Whereas you seem to have jumped (unless you have not illustrated the fullness of your calculations) to the paradoxical answer to that fact that we can not deny that space does exist, i.e. nothing really is. At least by this I mean I correct me if I am wrong, that although we can not touch it (or maybe that is all we can do?) or see it, we know that it is there.
I need some hash! (shame I stopped several years ago). I agree that we cannot truly observe nothing directly or indirectly, It does not exist. Unless you want to call me a lier when I say I am holding nothing in the palm of my hand. You also just described nothing as "it" creating in your or my mind a physical entity which is probably the point that our agreement parts. I accept nothing as being nothing, you seem contrary to that opinion.
And from here we can start to finally understand all of those deep and meaningful statements of the prophets and messengers which people stand in awe at without actually grasping the immense beauty and truth of it all. So my eyes are wet typing this.
Seems you have had quite an emotional stimuli and since I notice your next paragraph refers to Pakistan I am going off topic since I spent quite some time in Krach, pakistan. On my final day I spent time with new friends made who I had spent so much time with. I spent the day with some pakistani military officers, some wealthy Pakistani individuals smoking dope drinking beer and eating, a big passtime in Pakisan. I remember going to the beach and standing on a wall as the vey warm air gushed by my body off the arabian sea. Quite an endorfine packed experience which brought a tear to my eye. Finally, my Pakistani friend "Jimi" asked what my opinion was of him and his country. I said in all honesty "It seems pakistan and the UK have lost touch for the great historical events between the two have been confided to the history books and that is a great shame. I came here thinking terrorists and badlands, I leave with great friends and much respect for pakistan".
Jimmy, came to the British consulate with me and he would never allow me to pay for anything. I said to him in the consulate "you are now on British soil, you no longer pay for me and I return your hospitality". I duly took him to the bar and got him drunk ;D A picture of the Queen was on the wall and he said "look the Queen", and I nodded in agreement. He then went on to describe how the picture of the queen was on the wall in his home when he was a child. which to me only reinforced the great historical links pakistan and the British have, it's not all bad as some here would make us believe.
I have strayed - so shall get back on topic.
Are you sure you are an Atheist? Because you speak like a dry-eyed sabi. All you need is to let go with your emmotions and feel it flow. I had a friend in Pakistan who was a dry-eyed sabi, I don't know what her psychological history was, but whenever she tried to let go she started to get so physically shaken to pieces that she would stop. She went to Shrinks and took medication because she was so afraid of this emmotion. Then she decided to study psychology and she realised that there was nothing to fear but fear itself. She stopped the medication, and after a few weeks took a deep breath and boom. I am jealous of the ammount of love she has, it is immeasurable really. I don't know what it is about true dry-eyed sabi`een that allows them to experience so easily when it happens that which the rest of us wet-eyed sabi`een spend our whole lives seeking. Their tears are on the outside too when they pray, while to my regret mine are usually only on the inside.
I don't consider myself an atheist, it's a label other people give me because I reject the human religous explanation of God. I am here quite by chance and everything I observe around me also is. I disregard the antropic notionthat the laws of physics themselves are a carefully tuned put-up-job calculated to bring humanity eventually into existence, I reject this notion every bit as much as history playing a scriptured theatrical play whose purpose was pre destined to have a world order that we currently observe. It is no accident that we see stars in our sky at night and this does not imply that stars exist in order that we could have existed. It's just without stars their would be no atoms heavier than lithium in the periadic table and a chemistry of just three elements is too impoverished to support life. Seeing is the kind of activity that can go on only in a kind of universe where what you see is stars!
Thankyou, such people as yourself bring hope peace and understanding amongst people. I have much respect for you brother!
a Selfish Gene once said:
Bodies of plenty I have seen
you think your so clever
but I will live forever
your just a survival machine.
kay:
