atheist logic

[noraina]

There are many 'diseases' of the heart, disbelief is one, as well as pride, arrogance, anger, which can afflict anyone, even a Muslim. And each of these diseases of the heart have solutions, yes even not believing in God or religion does. I don't think any of these solutions though involve making fun of them or turning them away. And I see no harm in respectful debate with those of other faiths - I find the non-Muslims on here are very respectful.

I wasn't a very practising Muslim before, and once someone decided to blank me because I didn't know how to pray and I wasn't a 'proper' Muslim - I suppose they would be surprised to know that now I do pray, and not too claim superiority but probably more than they do.

Wa Alaykum Assalam.

 

[BilalKid]

"Let's bash atheism" forum.

did not make to bash hew

eace:

 

[sister herb]

did not make to bash hew

eace:

Maybe it wasn´t your intention. Anyways, thank you about giving us an opportunity to have interesting little discussion about how to understand the common sense and which way we should treat here others than Muslim members.

:thumbsup:

 

[Serinity]

The robots would never have been made, if we never started making them - why? Because something with a beginning can NEVER come by itself, or from nothing. Cause from nothing comes nothing, nothing can happen from nothing.

you claim there was nothing before this universe - then how come you claim it was by chance? Any 'chance' requires possibilities..

And nothing can start, without something else causing it, not a single homework of mine would be made if I did nothing.

And as I said, chance requires possiblities. Ie. There is NO chance from 'nothing' I find it paradoxal to say this universe came from nothing, and I find it paradoxal that it came by chance - it is impossible.

Cause by saying it came by 'chance' would imply possibilities before. Yet you claim that this universe came from nothing.

so you claim:

A) this came from nothing.
B) by chance.

They both contradict eachother.

Besides it is too complex to have come by itself!

Tell me, if I said "Windows 7 came by chance" would you believe me? "The internet came by chance" it did not, then how come you can say the designer of these things came by chance?

We can hardly replicate nature, and whatever we make, falls pale in comparison to nature, and we'd say it is ridiculous to claim Windows 7 came by chance, then how can we claim that something way more complex came by chance?

It is like saying a BMW E92 M3 spawned by chance!

Or I wrote this by chance:

"The sky is blue"

Oh Allah, please guide the blind! guide us me, and all of us. Ameen.

 

[Serinity]

Maybe it wasn´t your intention. Anyways, thank you about giving us an opportunity to have interesting little discussion about how to understand the common sense and which way we should treat here others than Muslim members.

:thumbsup:

You said you were an atheist before? Perhaps sharing your story would be a great thing. May Allah bless us with continuous guidance. Ameen.

What made you go from Atheism to Islam?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

To be honest, Atheists are the dumbest people I've come across. To think that everything came about by chance - you cannot get ANY DUMBER?! :facepalm::slap:

I don't recall saying that everything came about by chance, nor do I actually believe this.

Do you have any substantial question you'd like to ask?

@czgibson I do have a question for you..

But atheism is could be for a hugely different reasons. What would be your reasons again?

Reasons I am an atheist include:

• Lack of evidence for any gods
• Problem of evil
• Ockham's Razor
• Incoherence of all religious texts that I have read
• Obvious man-made nature of all religious texts that I have read
• The fact that so many phenomena that used to be explained by reference to religion now have better (usually scientific) explanations
• The lack of miracles in the modern age
• Weakness of all philosophical "proofs" of God's existence
• Sociological and psychological explanations of the function of religion by Feuerbach, Durkheim, Nietzsche and, to some extent, Freud
• Philosophical considerations of religious belief by Kant, Hume, Schopenhauer, Russell and Mackie

Peace

 

[sister herb]

I have posted my story:

http://www.islamicboard.com/new-muslims/4914-stories-muslim-reverts-post-33.html

 

[anatolian]

This made me remember a saying of a turkish sufi poet Hayali

"The Designer of the world is within the world, they don't know how to look,
Those fish are living under the sea, they don't know the sea"

 

[anatolian]

Reasons I am an atheist include:

• Lack of evidence for any gods
  

Peace

Peace friend. You say that you have looked evidence for any god and you couldnt find. But have you looked for evidence for Allah? Because Allah says that He is closer to you than your life vein.

"And certainly We created man, and We know what his mind suggests to him, and We are nearer to him than his life-vein" Quran 50:16

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Peace friend. You say that you have looked evidence for any god and you couldnt find. But have you looked for evidence for Allah? Because Allah says that He is closer to you than your life vein.

"And certainly We created man, and We know what his mind suggests to him, and We are nearer to him than his life-vein" Quran 50:16

Peace to you also.

I include Allah in the long list of gods that I can find no evidence for. If you're going to propose the existence of a supernatural being with perfect intelligence that nobody has ever seen and who has no discernible, measurable influence on our world, then you're going to need much stronger evidence than "Allah says that He is closer to you than your life vein". It would be an extraordinary thing to discover proof that such a being existed, and if the evidence was convincing I would have no choice but to change my mind. As it is, there is no such evidence that I'm aware of.

Peace

 

[Serinity]

Greetings,


Peace to you also.

I include Allah in the long list of gods that I can find no evidence for. If you're going to propose the existence of a supernatural being with perfect intelligence that nobody has ever seen and who has no discernible, measurable influence on our world, then you're going to need much stronger evidence than "Allah says that He is closer to you than your life vein". It would be an extraordinary thing to discover proof that such a being existed, and if the evidence was convincing I would have no choice but to change my mind. As it is, there is no such evidence that I'm aware of.

Peace

But there is plenty of signs of the existence of One God. Making up one's own God is wrong, no doubt. But seeing as how this whole thing came to existence - the complexities, the grass, the weather etc..

The signs are all around us. Try to contemplate over the creation of the universe.

If someone came and said "I believe in x and y, worship x and y" you wouldn't. Why? No proof of such a being..

But you see. The existence of ONE GOD, ie. The One Who created everything, is not based on mere claims. It is based on the sheer fact that this whole thing had a beginning etc.

God won't come to you and say "I am God", the signs of God are already there. Anyways, I probably didn't help much.

The problem is when people claim that the truth comes from THEM. The Prophet SAW delivered the message of truth FROM Allah.

Anyways, read, think, reflect, and contemplate.

May Allah guide you in your journey. Ameen.

 

[anatolian]

Greetings,


Peace to you also.

I include Allah in the long list of gods that I can find no evidence for. If you're going to propose the existence of a supernatural being with perfect intelligence that nobody has ever seen and who has no discernible, measurable influence on our world, then you're going to need much stronger evidence than "Allah says that He is closer to you than your life vein". It would be an extraordinary thing to discover proof that such a being existed, and if the evidence was convincing I would have no choice but to change my mind. As it is, there is no such evidence that I'm aware of.

Peace

Peace friend. So what do you think it means Allah is closer to you than your life-vein?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

But there is plenty of signs of the existence of One God. Making up one's own God is wrong, no doubt. But seeing as how this whole thing came to existence - the complexities, the grass, the weather etc..

The signs are all around us. Try to contemplate over the creation of the universe.

The fact that the universe is here tells us nothing about its origin. True, physicists believe they can make observations about the very early moments of our universe, but there is no evidence (yet) about what happened at the very start of it.

If someone came and said "I believe in x and y, worship x and y" you wouldn't. Why? No proof of such a being..

This is pretty much exactly the experience I have when someone tells me about the god that they believe in.

But you see. The existence of ONE GOD, ie. The One Who created everything, is not based on mere claims. It is based on the sheer fact that this whole thing had a beginning etc.

Yes, it does seem highly probable that the whole thing had a beginning. And you deduce from this, what? A supernatural, timeless intelligence that knows everything you will ever do, forbids you from eating pork and cares about who you go to bed with? Why?

I conclude that we simply don't know what happened at the very start of the universe. Nobody does. Maybe one day we will know more about it, but for the moment we have to be content with admitting that we don't know. Postulating the existence of a creator is just an easy answer with nothing to back it up except wishful thinking.

Anyways, read, think, reflect, and contemplate.

I certainly intend to carry on doing so.

Peace friend. So what do you think it means Allah is closer to you than your life-vein?

It's a poetic phrase, and I expect you could read multiple meanings into it. Perhaps my life-vein is my aorta or my jugular vein? Perhaps it's a term referring to a more general life force, used in a similar figurative way to a word like "heartbeat"? Perhaps the whole phrase means that Allah is so much closer to me than I realise, that I just can't see it; yet he has been sustaining me every moment of my life.

Maybe you would like to tell me what you think it means?

Peace

 

[Pygoscelis]

To be honest, Atheists are the dumbest people I've come across. To think that everything came about by chance - you cannot get ANY DUMBER?! :facepalm::slap:

... can you imagine how temping it is after reading that to say some pretty nasty things about the delusion that is Islam and the minds of the people that hold it? How can you expect to be treated with any measure of respect if you don't show any respect to others?

I agree that at the end of the day there is no super polite way to tell us atheists you see us as spiritually blind etc, just as there is no super polite way for us to tell you we see you as delusional, but neither of us is stupid and there is no need to resort to name calling etc.

And you don't need to read in a book or be commanded by any authority that you should treat your fellow human beings with kindness and respect. That should come straight from who you are. You know, that basic human decency that you have inside you, God or no God.

 

[Serinity]

I am not asking you to be hasty.

But this is how I see it, although I do understand where you're coming from.

I am not going to wait for humans to deduce for me or discover for me or to think for me whether God exists.

I simply won't risk it. I don't trust science to the point I'd rely my hereafter on it.

you can't see the hereafter, nor can I. But I believe in it. Why? Cuz I find it too risky to not do it, however, I by that am not saying to believe whatever blindly.

The reason why I believe in a hereafter is simple - This world existed before we were born, we were unaware of it, similar I think of the current situation.

May Allah grant you guidance, and may He SWT make you able to see His signs. Ameen.

I do understand your situation - and I ask you to keep contemplating, and I ask Allah to guide you. Think and reason, and may Allah guide you thereby. Ameen.

 

[Serinity]

... can you imagine how temping it is after reading that to say some pretty nasty things about the delusion that is Islam and the minds of the people that hold it? How can you expect to be treated with any measure of respect if you don't show any respect to others?

I agree that at the end of the day there is no super polite way to tell us atheists you see us as spiritually blind etc, just as there is no super polite way for us to tell you we see you as delusional, but neither of us is stupid and there is no need to resort to name calling etc.

And you don't need to read in a book or be commanded by any authority that you should treat your fellow human beings with kindness and respect. That should come straight from who you are. You know, that basic human decency that you have inside you, God or no God.

I think the bigger problem is the prejudice behind our writings. I sense a sense of prejudice from you. A narcasstic -egoistic sense.

I find it offensive that you call us delusional etc. we have reasons, it isn't like we just said "I believe in Allah, cuz I can" there are reasons etc.

The same I could say with you guys, but I won't start with insulting. Lets just stay logical.

There is the individual, the argument, and the feelings. If you attack the individual in order to win a debate - that is not winning.

And the word 'debate' sends a bad vibe, doesn't it?

Lets just be nice.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I find it offensive that you call us delusional etc. we have reasons, it isn't like we just said "I believe in Allah, cuz I can" there are reasons etc.

The problem there is that whether you find it offensive or not, I do find you delusional when it comes to your belief in God; without rational basis or reason for your belief in an imaginary being. If you can tell me a more polite way to say that, I'll use your words, but I can't change the fact. I know that you think you have good reasons, but I do not believe that you do, as all such reasons that I have yet heard I have found to be not based on logic and reason, but on emotion and faith, or logical fallacy.

Usually, such as in your own case, it doesn't lead you to destructive or hateful actions or speech, so I don't have to point it out, just as you don't have to point out seeing me as spiritually blind, spiritually lacking, lost, or being hellbound, etc. But as you can see, God belief does lead some other people such destructive ends as the post I was responding to, so for them it needs to be said.

And I think you have to admit, that if I dished out even a fraction of what is being directed in this forum at atheists back at Muslims, I would be very quickly banned from the forum.

 

[Muhaba]

Ok then here we go...

Robots - Have a creator
Humans - Created by chance

Computers - Have a creator
Human Brains - Created by chance

Operating Systems, Android Systems, IOS Systems - Have a creator
Digestive Systems, Muscular Systems, Nervous Systems,
Reproductive Systems, Urinary Systems, Skeletal Systems,
Cardiovascular Systems, Respiratory Systems, Endocrine Systems, etc. - CREATED BY CHANCE

What more arguments do you need to define the dumbness of Atheists?!

Ys i agree. How can one think that the human body with its multitude systems and organs came into place all by itself?

There are things that we don't even know about the body but the Creator has made them perfectly based on their functioning. For example the hands / arms normally hang in the air while the feet normally rest on the ground. Your hamds don't get tired ever from hanging in the air. You don't need to rest them on any thing. On the other hand, let your legs hang for a bit (from the wdge of the bed) and in few moments your feet will start feeling tired. Now could this come into being by chance. Not to mention all the more complex functions like mentioned above.

Denying the existence of a Creator is indeed the most senseless thing one can do and if you need proof that atheism is wrong, all you need to do is study the human anatomy.

 

[Zafran]

but I do not believe that you do, as all such reasons that I have yet heard I have found to be not based on logic and reason, but on emotion and faith, or logical fallacy

I find this Odd - You have clearly heard of the philosophers and philosophical arguments for God that are based on Logic and reason. So you cant say its just "faith" and "emotion". Logical fallacy can be chucked at pretty much any argument.

We also know "evidence" itself that atheists claim to want can be pretty far fetched - especially when they believe in many things with out the same "evidence".

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I hope I will be forgiven for this small interruption.

I find this Odd - You have clearly heard of the philosophers and philosophical arguments for God that are based on Logic and reason. So you cant say its just "faith" and "emotion".

Perhaps you would like to mention which philosophers you have in mind here, and which arguments.

Logical fallacy can be chucked at pretty much any argument.

Except those arguments which are logically valid.

We also know "evidence" itself that atheists claim to want can be pretty far fetched - especially when they believe in many things with out the same "evidence".

More far-fetched than a journey to heaven on winged horse?

Peace