Atheists tell us....

[Muezzin]

While I can see what the first post is driving towards, I do not think crop circles and UFOs are the best examples to use.

I also don't see why somebody would believe devils are involved in making crop circles. They're really not that hard for ordinary people to make if they know what they're doing. Crop circles and UFOs are not required to prove God's existence anyway - there is evidence enough in places such as the Quran and the natural world. Because everyone has free will, it is up to each individual what to make of such evidence.

 

[h-n]

I'm very glad to see not every muslim here is supportive of h-n's twisted logic. Following her posts, it appears she is here for the purposes of flaming and spreading hatred towards anything she perceives non-muslim. It's not a good example to be setting for her fellow brothers and sisters in Islam. I came here in the good faith we can all share a common ground of humanity and, owing to some of you, I'm not altogether dissapointed.

Thanks.

How pathetic!!! Proven that non-Muslims as I have already mentioned willing to dismiss anything, biased, they can't even prove what causes crop circles and UFOs and they want proof for something else. If they can't come to a conclusion with this, then what can they prove when they see something??

Also How laughable!!!! "Setting me up against other Muslim" They are WRONG! So are you! If you feel so comfortable that they are set up against me then simply get them to dismiss the following statements, and I AWAIT FOR THEM TO DO THIS!!!!! :bump1:. AS I stand by that all Atheist are LIARS!!;--

1. Allah himself has stated that people reject the "TRUTH" not something that they did not know. "Of course Allah is not going to send someone to Hell for something that they didn't know"

2. People claim they didn't know about God, but actually it rather that they did not make their lives about Islam. Whatever they do in this world, they are aware that there are people who worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell. So its rather that they are so engrossed in living their life that they choose to ignore Islam, just as a person goes on holiday and they don't want to hear about the Day of Judgement as they look for the life of this world.

3. All Prophets when preaching the message of Islam, told people to REPENT ON THE FIRST DAY!! Now if Islam meant so little to people then why would the Prophets Noah, Lut, Jesus, Moses peace be upon them etc tell people to worship Allah the FIRST DAY? AS it was normal, and the non-Muslims were avoiding the truth for the life of this world!

4. No Prophet called any non-Muslim who rejects Islam a "good person"

5. No Prophet ever said that people who reject Islam really don't know the truth,

-Prophet Noah peace be upon him NEVER said that people genuinely don't accept the existance of Allah, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell etc.

6. All the Prophets said that everyone SHOULD be worshipping the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell. Yes, they were not forced to become Muslims, as it is their choice, but no Prophet ever said to people to wait and repent tomorrow, after you thought of what I am telling you, as the truth is plain to see, and everyone should be worshipping the one Go.

7. What people like "Sister harb" should remember that Islam and the Quran does not change, she should listen to as above what Allah has stated NOT listen to the excuses of evil people and lie to others about her condition when being an Atheist. As simply put let her refute this;-

-She is getting confused with for example with people who ignore Islam and people REJECTING Islam.


Ignoring Islam

As again if someone is going on holiday, they are still aware that in this world that people worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell, that various Prophets have been sent. They are busy looking for the life of this world that they ignore the Mosque, the ignore looking towards Allah. This is the state of ignorant people, there are NO excuses for being this way, people would look back and say they needed more help, but again we don't make people Muslims, they are being tested, they are eating the food that Allah has provided but they neglect to worship him. These people are not called innocent as they do the same things as people who reject Islam openly, as they too ignore Islam, and make Islam a part of their lives.

Rejecting Islam

This is a step further from people who ignore Islam. As those people just don't care to think about Islam, so may not go as far as saying they believe or not, but people look at Islam, there is one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell - and say that God does not exist, that is a MAJOR SIN. IT is EVIL (Major sins are not just about murdering someone).

Allah does not accept either conditions, it is NEVER acceptable for a person to be a non-Muslim! Not any day. Your not going to be treated as a child, etc.

Allah has NEVER said it was acceptable, understandable it wasn't the person's fault for not being Muslim. It is their fault.

Allah has NEVER said that people genuinely reject Islam because they don't know its true, if that was the case, then you would not be tested this way. OF course Allah has taken many people into the next world and they have died in state of ignorance and rejecting the truth, getting drunk, being on drugs even, they are not innocent. Do you really think that their conditions that all the people that died last year are so different to the people that are alive today?? They have the same test and how they respond to Islam whether ignoring it and rejecting Islam is the same. THey go to Hell together.


I stand by using the crop circles, UFOs examples, and neither would Allah ignore what they see or hear, as even Allah mentions they see the rain, the sun, many foods, the milk they gain from cows so ignoring all this and rejecting Islam is a SIN. They are not able to make excuses to Allah on the Day of Judgement why they ignored so many signs and if they are so truthful of being shown something, why have they not come to a clear conclusion on what they are when they did see something. :bump1:

No one gong to Hell is called "clever", non of the Prophets said that people who were rejecting Islam had sense.

So instead of thinking that Islam teaches what sinful people wish it to be , then wait for Sister harb etc to refute the above points (, for which she should remember that Islam is not brought down to how sinful people want it to be, but sinful people to repent and say they were wrong for not looking, worshipping Allah earlier and become better as Muslims, so move up not bring Islam down to what sinful people would want it as! I am not going treat people as if they are children, when they have NO excuses and Allah has provided them with so much. :bump1: Unless Sister harb is saying that Allah has not given them enough??? When he has, again it is not upto us to personally be there for them on their journey to Islam, you are asking for someone to do that, when you have to do it yourself, even the Prophet did not hold hands with people so they would repent! :bump1:

It does not embarrass me when people say they repented when speaking to "Nice Muslims" as why didn't you repent before as Allah was being nice to you all that time. I am only hear to talk about Islam and not actively here for non-Muslims, and as per the "I am not going to talk to you" thread, Sinners being destroyed and a good job too thread, I am NOT changing in how and what I write. I am never going to treat people as if they never received anything from Allah, after all the wars, disasters, etc it is a joke, that people see fit to call themselves as innocent when they don't repent. I am happy with all that I have written, see people on the Day of Judgement if they dispute, but they are liars, liars, and liars. I will be taking a long break now, and for those Muslims that are giving the impression that non-muslims genuinely don't know about Islam, when they have heard of one God, the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and hell, should sort themselves out, as that is NOT what Allah has taught you. Listen to Allah first instead of sinful people and accepting their excuses for your past misdeeds as well! There is NEVER a genuine reason why a person (Allah NEVER said it was OK for a person to be a non-Muslim at anytime) did not involve Islam in their lives. and I am not treating you like if you are children in terms of talking to you differently.

Some other threads that I have written covering test;-

Collapse of these countries (covers test)
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134298161-collapse-countries-today.html

The last three of these threads talks about being tested and why I am never going to treat the non-Muslims as if the are innocent etc.

Sinners being destroyed and a good job too!
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134298756-sinners-being-destoyed-good-job-too.html

Non-Muslims turning to Islam
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134298693-non-muslims-turning-islam.html


Non-Muslims and Islam
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134298331-non-muslims-islam.html

 

[IAmZamzam]

So this thread is really about exclusivism then, h-n?

Apparently the skeptics in that other thread aren't the only ones who need to be filled in on taqlid or whatever it's called; such an explanation is quite a desideratum with you as well.

The scriptures tell us: the bare physical facts of everything that happens in this world are predetermined, and this includes our own outward behavior. As a result, we have free will yet not free action (except insofar as the exercise of our will is, merely technically speaking, itself a sort of action). We can still have free will when our worldly actions are all predestined (before God made the world at all, no less) because our will is the only part of us that’s free. Allah decides everything we end up doing in life; we decide whether we do it willingly or unwillingly, sincerely or insincerely. And therefore it is of course only for effort that we are graded for the hereafter on this great test called life because the only meaningful A’s (or F’s) would have to be for effort alone, for intention: it’s the only part of the test that we fill in ourselves. You’ll notice a certain virtual irrefutability in the doctrine existing simply by way of it being the only belief on these matters that makes perfect sense and ties everything together with perfect consistency: God remains fully in control of our lives while we still remain individuals; the essential, preverbal, almost moment-to-moment subjective experience of our free will is not ludicrously branded an “illusion” yet the undeniable influence of external factors on our behavior is not denied either; and we still have the power of choice without being the least bit capable of altering God’s design in any capacity, or in the most miniscule degree.

You remember that hadith about how Allah will confront people who say things like, “I died a martyr for you,” and respond, “So you did; so it was ordained,” and thrust them face first into hell? Logically, it must go the other way too. If people ignore and reject Islam then that is only because Allah has made them do so, as the Koran repeatedly says. Ergo, even the most intellectually slothful, intellectually dishonest, without-excuses kafir may, if he fights against his nature and is a better person deep down inside, see salvation.

Do you understand now?

 

[h-n]

How absolutely stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!! To say that Allah makes people reject Islam. They wrong themselves, he wrongs them not, their hearts get sealed AFTER they reject Islam, they stay deaf, dumb, blind BUT only after rejecting, rejecting Islam, they wanted to live in this world so much being evil, so be careful what you ask for and what you want, but they ABSOLUTELY rejected KNOWINGLY THE TRUTH!!

1. Allah has stated in the Quran that they "wrong themselves" he wrongs them NOT!! The test is that they are able to choose the RIGHT path, which they are aware of just as the people at the time of Prophet Lut peace be upon him were the homosexuals said that he was telling them to be good, pure. So the homosexuals knew the right path.

Even Pharaoh rejecting the truth, he accused the Prophet Moses peace be upon him of doing magic, so he is happy to believe in magic but not Allah's power?? AS Atheists have shown they are rejectors of truth, they are liars, liars and liars!

Do you forget so plainfully, that Allah is Merciful, Compassionate? Do you think that if he "made" someone evil that he would send them to Hell if it was not their fault?? Of course he does NOT!! He sends them to Hell as it was their fault!!! :bump1:

-the reaction is how dare they be evil, Allah is not criticising them because "he made them evil" as you put it,
-Allah is not sending them to Hell because they "couldn't help being evil"
-they are being sent to Hell because it was their FAULT of being evil!!
-they are being sent to Hell as they have no excuses, they could have made it to Paradise, but chose the path to Hell fire.

2. Even Allah has said they receive the fruits, and rain etc, but because they are too comfortable with receiving so much, they see this as trivial,, when do they not think that how many kinds of berries, apples, pears, and there are peas, potatoes, cucumbers etc that this world contains. So even Allah has not failed to mention this in the Quran and will not fail to mention this on the Day of Judgement as the test does not change and he does not change what he judges us by. So on the Day of Judgement every Atheist will be told;-

-you received pears and it was sinful that you did not become Muslims,
-you received apples and it was sinful that you did not become Muslims,
-you received rain and it was sinful that you did not become Muslims,
-you received honey and it was sinful that you did not become Muslims,
-you received coffee beans and it was sinful that you did not become Muslims,
-you received sugar and it was sinful that you did not become Muslims,

So even the Atheists being told on the Day of Judgement that they have received the rain, fruits is ample and they should not have rejected the truth, they have received so much in this world and yet do not give thanks.

What did you think happened to the people that got taken by the flood at the time of Prophet Noah peace be upon him?? That Allah drowned the because they "couldn't help being rejectors of the truth"?? :bump1:

Do you think that Allah sends people to Hell because they "genuinely" do know about the existance of Allah and the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell?

As Allah stated it was sinful that they received so much, but still rejected the truth. Nothing will be left out on the Day of Judgement!!

What else do you think the Atheists will be told on the Day of Judgement??? As above they had no excuses to be evil. No atheists will ever get away with stating their lies that they "did not know" that Allah existed, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell.

Will add some people do think of the issue at hand, ie, when someone goes and reads something, learns something, they wish they had the opportunity to do this earlier, or even mention that they wished they met that teacher earlier on to give them the help they need, people are treating repenting to Allah the same thing, when it is NOT, as the test is simple, understandable, people can see they will die, the world is limited, there is the one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell, so it isn't that they needed something else from Allah, but for them to make time in their lives to think about Islam (that was missing). OF course all that time, whose food did they think they were eating, all the water they had, the day and night they were receiving, everyday they were willing to take and eat from what Allah has provided, but not willing to spend their time in thought in Islam? TRUST ALLAH, HE PROVIDES A FAIR TEST, AND PEOPLE NEEDN'T BE CONCERNED IF YOU THINK OTHERS ARE INNOCENT, AS ALLAH TESTS THEM FAIRLY, AND THAT REMEMBER THEY WILL BE SENT TO HELL FOR REJECTING THE TRUTH, SO PLACE YOUR TRUST IN ALLAH. You are being tested on what you can do, achieve NOT about receiving attention, motivation from others, you are being tested individually, Allah is testing you on being good, not whether someone else makes you a Muslim.

Nothing will be left out on what they seen and heard, even Allah has mentioned about Pharaoh accusing the Prophet Moses peace be upon him doing magic-happy to accept magic but not the power of Allah, just as Atheists today, happy to say the Universe has come about itself, but not that it was created by Allah etc.

You quote anything, as others instead of reading the Quran first and letting other people's "prespectives" take over, there is no prespective in Islam, there is only one religion, Allah is not judging us on different laws, the test is simple. As I stated in "Sinners being destroyed and a good job too" thread. The people being sent to Hell could not get away with saying that Allah created them, and were responsible for their misdeeds, Allah is testing them, he is , JUST, WISE!!

It will be made known to all of them that they have received so much in this world, and to the people of Hell fire, if you really think they are speakers of truth-how can they be speakers of truth when the reject Islam, but if you really believe they are telling the truth, then wait then for the Day of Judgement and they will not be standing by what they have said except admitting that they were want of living in this world and lied, lied and lied.

 

[h-n]

Atheists remind me of prostitutes, no matter how many times a prostitute tries to justify her lifestyle she knows she can't stand up to marriage, a goodly life, and she just goes BRIGHT RED , FRUSTATED :grumbling, that she has nothing to say to try and justify her lifestyle in response to what Allah has taught us!!!!!!!

 

[h-n]

I am not going to be here for the rest of the year now. So take care everyone, and don't be fooled by what non-Muslims say, listen to what Allah has taught you in the :Koran:.

I thank the Moderators for allowing me to post and to others on this forum for taking the time to read them.

Thank-you. :muslimah:

Sister h-n

 

[DavidK565]

Atheists remind me of prostitutes, no matter how many times a prostitute tries to justify her lifestyle she knows she can't stand up to marriage, a goodly life, and she just goes BRIGHT RED , FRUSTATED :grumbling, that she has nothing to say to try and justify her lifestyle in response to what Allah has taught us!!!!!!!

Crazy people just keep popping out of the woodwork. Its very disheartening.

Let me be blunt: Who the hell are you to presume you know the Truth? You have no right to feign superiority, to insult those who do not adhere to your line of thinking. If you're a religious person, a major part of your religion is based on "faith". "Faith" means that you believe in something, or trust it to be true. It does NOT mean that you have the ANSWER. You can believe you do, but that is as far as it goes. Otherwise, you know "The Truth", and NO ONE knows The Truth but God, right? A major aspect of all religions (supposedly) is showing humility. One must acknowledge others and their beliefs; they must realize that while they THINK they are doing the right thing and are on the right path, they will never KNOW. That is Faith.

Atheists are not refusing to accept Allah or God. They simply don't believe he exists. You can not actively reject something that doesn't exist. Atheists could be wrong too, just as those of faith are. But to suggest that Atheists are like "prostitutes" is absurd. There are rational explanations for nearly all things, outside of God's influence, and they are allowed to live that way without being looked upon as an inferior specimen, or someone who willfully lacks enlightenment.

Learn to respect others. Realize that while your understanding of the universe works for you, it does not have to work for everyone else. Your beliefs are the truth to you, but it is not absolute.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Since sister h-n isn't going to be with us, is there anyone else who seeks further elucidation or comment?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Allah does not accept either conditions, it is NEVER acceptable for a person to be a non-Muslim! Not any day.

Who knows, h-n, you might come back and read this or you might not:

Although I disagree with you, I fully support your right to believe what you like, as long as it doesn't lead to harming others. I view you as a fellow human being, and I hope that the life you've chosen brings you happiness.

Peace

 

[Ezekiel_B]

Allah does not accept either conditions, it is NEVER acceptable for a person to be a non-Muslim! Not any day.

Hmm... A religious extremist. How old are you and how long have you been in the UK, h-n? I'm interested to know what sort of education you've had, so far.

 

[Ezekiel_B]

No one gong to Hell is called "clever", non of the Prophets said that people who were rejecting Islam had sense.

But I don't want to go to heaven if it means spending an eternity with people like you.

 

[Ezekiel_B]

And the most pitiful part of this is that you can't even stay on topic in your own thread! So far, we've shot from demanding a 100% answer to UFOs and crops circles, to the day of judgement and all that entails... and in so doing, we all have to witness you getting drunk on your own rhetoric! If you want to talk about how scientists come to conclusions about pictorial and anecdotal evidence of unexplained phenomena, then do so... and I will do my best to have an intelligent and civil debate with you... but please... do try to keep your little toothbrush moustache out of it. Okay? It's NOT attractive.

 

[sister herb]

But I don't want to go to heaven if it means spending an eternity with people like you.

Neither I even I am muslim!

Roses to h_n again:

Take a deep breath of them and think what kind of image about Islam you actually give about your posts in here!

Your islam is not religion of peace, mine is.

 

[Ezekiel_B]

Can you back that up with a picture of kittens? That often helps calm them down.

 

[Muezzin]

Okay. The thread starter has said she will not be posting for a year, and meaningful discussion seems to have broken down in this thread. I'm going to close it for now.