Attention those with religion "other"

[ardianto]

From my side, this offer to you will always remain open.

Pygoscelis is not someone without belief like people who are in spiritual quest, but he embrace his own belief which called Atheism.

I know Pygoscelis since few years ago and I see him as someone who has respect to people from different belief. So we must respect him too.

 

[Abz2000]

There is difference between secularism which is put religion only in personal area and does not affect public policy, and atheism which is a 'belief' that God doesn't exist. USA is not atheist country, but secular country. And people in ancient Athens were not atheists, but pagans.

You would have to delve further into the meanings and fundamentals behind the terms "saecularis" , "secular", "kafir", and "atheism" rather than just make bland claims without substance or basis.

The term "kafir" doesn't just mean "disbeliever", it means "one who covers the facts", rejects the truth, denies the truth, which seems to be why many translators have chosen the term "unbeliever" over the more grammatical "disbeliever".
Behind the term, there is the essence of foolishly and irrationally rejecting the sovereignty of the Creator of the heavens and the earth - out of narrow-minded perceived self interest and desire for lustful deviations - which is why you'll find many bickering over irrelevant points and creating contentions over nothing simply for the sake of contention and polarization when simply admitting to plain to see facts would no longer leave room for the claim of doubt.



When some crook tries to impose "secularism" (rejection of the sovereignty of God) upon the masses, it is "relating to/regarding/re." "legion/masses/community".
They play you with words, look at it simply and honestly.
The kings new clothes is a good example.

But hey, when you live in an orwellian dystopia where crooked usurpers of authority tell you to give up your "liberty" for "freedom" and you acquiesce or even willingly comply, what's to be expected?

One must be made aware of the fact that pharaoh tried to mirror God by accusing Musa of being "min al kaafireen" denoting rejection, ingratitude, rebellion in the kingdom and land which fell between east and west which Musa later made clear to him belongs to God who is the Master and ruler, the threat to imprison him came only then, and not when Musa proclaimed God's rulership of and kingship over the heavens and earth, and even pharaoh and his ancestors - which appeared to seem distant and irrelevant to Pharaoh.

This affair is a lot deeper than a wishy washy surface game where anyone can do anything they like.

And people in ancient Athens were not Atheists but Pagans

Lol, the term atheist comes from Athens, just as "nazarenes" comes from the dude from Nazareth, the word itself is greek and the athenians are the first recorded to have attempted to impose a notion of sovereignty of man, where the masses are led to believe they are running the affairs with absolute unbridled reign. The re-legion of "ye are gods", Turned out to be a disaster made totally apparent as a means of appeasement during control in the age of information and the ability of the common citizen and the sceptic journalist to play back obama's anti-war rhetoric lol.


Athenian democracy developed around the fifth century B.C. in the Greek city-state(known as a*polis) of*Athens, comprising the city of Athens and the surrounding territory of*Attica*and is the first known*democracy*in the world. Other Greek cities set up democracies, most following the Athenian model, but none are as well documented as Athens.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

Atheism(derived from the*Ancient Greek*ἄθεος*atheos*meaning "without gods; godless; secular; denying or disdaining the gods, especially officially sanctioned gds"[1]) is the absence or rejection of the belief that*deities*exist. The English term was used at least as early as the sixteenth century and atheistic ideas and their influence have a longer history. Over the centuries, atheists have supported their lack of belief in gods through a variety of avenues, including scientific, philosophical and ideological notions. Philosophical atheist thought began to appear in Europe and Asia in the sixth or fifth century BCE.

*https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

Similar to how the term "turk" was once used to describe Muslims though in the case of atheism, the land of origin and the meaning somehow bridged, and even if those people around the world were unfamiliar with the greek language, they would likely have known the character of a re-legious-ly atheist and secular person from athens. It was a habit.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Peace. I recognize that you have not advocated violence in this thread (or ever as far as I am aware). I ask you to consider though that waxing nostalgic about pre-enlightenment Christian Europe in regard to atheists is similar to waxing nostalgic about colonial America in regard to the native american "savages". The actions you speak of may not have sound footing in the Bible the way you read it, but others who called themselves Christians, who carried out these acts disagreed, and harkening back to that age may not be smiled on, especially by the atheists you reference (who were burned at the stake as heretics at that time). If you find some atheists today to be overly upset and aggressive regarding religion, I submit to you that there is a centuries long historical basis for it.

Entitlement is like a plaque, and never needed for peaceful equitable advancement. Atheist are selfish and overly prideful in many cases. Peace will never come from spite, revenge, or thinking someone owes you something. The atrocities that tool place by the hands of man under the guise of guise of faith in GOD and following the right direction is neither here nor there. As if "Christians" are the cause of all the world's problems.

Greed is the problem on all levels. Manipulation of self by greed and lack of honest introspection and disregard of the conscience are the problem, not Faith in a higher power, creative force, or GOD.

2¢

Peace

 

[MidnightRose]

Pygoscelis is not someone without belief like people who are in spiritual quest, but he embrace his own belief which called Atheism.

I know Pygoscelis since few years ago and I see him as someone who has respect to people from different belief. So we must respect him too.

It's unfortunate that inviting someone to learn about Islam is seen as disrespect.

 

[ardianto]

It's unfortunate that inviting someone to learn about Islam is seen as disrespect.

What I mean is, if someone not interested to come to Islam, we should not urge him, because we must be feel uncomfortable if Christian urge us to come to Christianity.

I know personally with few converts in my place. No one of them become Muslim because a Muslim 'chased' them. But because Allah gave them hidayah that made them come to Islam without being invited by anyone.

And special for Pygoscelis, he already know personally with few Muslims in his place.

 

[Abz2000]

What I mean is, if someone not interested to come to Islam, we should not urge him, because we must be feel uncomfortable if Christian urge us to come to Christianity.

I know personally with few converts in my place. No one of them become Muslim because a Muslim 'chased' them. But because Allah gave them hidayah that made them come to Islam without being invited by anyone.

And special for Pygoscelis, he already know personally with few Muslims in his place.

Is it your own opinion that people shouldn't be urged to be saved from hellfire and be granted paradise, and that we shouldn't come to unity through submission to the law of God?
Is it a valid opinion in light of the book of Allah and the sunnah and seerah of His final messenger pbuh?

What was the method of dawah of the Messenger of Allah pbuh and that of his companions under the Islamic State?
Or what about his (pbuh) predecessors (pbut)?

Also refer to Quran ch27 v13-44
http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/27.htm
And ch22 v8-9

 

[Pygoscelis]

Greed is the problem on all levels. Manipulation of self by greed and lack of honest introspection and disregard of the conscience are the problem, not Faith in a higher power, creative force, or GOD.

Greed and disregard of conscience are indeed problems, but that is no more prevalent in atheists than in theists. Manipulation of others through authoritarian belief and tribal us vs them dynamics, and lack of critical reasoning and skepticism are also problems, and things like religion and nationalism can play right into those dynamics if you are not careful.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Re: Attention those with religion "other"

Authoritarian viewpoint nor tribal, or us vs them mentality have any place in the peaceful advancement and equality of humanity. Any who possess such qualities are indeed being manipulated. Faith, or lack there of had little to do with any of it as an atheist and theist can both have these negative qualities. One is wrongly attributing them to GOD and the other generally acts as if it is the survival of the fittest without regard of survival past self.

Peace

 

[Pygoscelis]

What I mean is, if someone not interested to come to Islam, we should not urge him, because we must be feel uncomfortable if Christian urge us to come to Christianity.

This is an interesting point, that has always left me a little conflicted. I take no offense at what najimuddin wrote, but I can understand how some may. On the one hand it is an act of love and kindness to share your faith and try to save others from what you see as the wrong path (and one with negative consequences for the person). On the other hand it completely disrespects and disregards what the person already believes and attaches value to. I remind you how so many Muslims are so hypersensitive about their own traditions and beliefs, to the point that I'm not to do something as simple as draw Muhammad. As ardianto said, how do you feel when Christians try to convert you to Christianity and turn you away from Islam?

The term "kafir" doesn't just mean "disbeliever", it means "one who covers the facts", rejects the truth, denies the truth, which seems to be why many translators have chosen the term "unbeliever" over the more grammatical "disbeliever".
Behind the term, there is the essence of foolishly and irrationally rejecting the sovereignty of the Creator of the heavens and the earth - out of narrow-minded perceived self interest and desire for lustful deviations - which is why you'll find many bickering over irrelevant points and creating contentions over nothing simply for the sake of contention and polarization when simply admitting to plain to see facts would no longer leave room for the claim of doubt.

So "Kafir" means basically the same as "Infidel"? This is interesting. So I am not a "Kafir" after all, as I don't reject or deny truth.

One of the most common errors theists make in regard to atheists is this constant insistence that atheists reject, rebel against, or are unfaithful to God. We're not. We can't be. You can't reject, rebel against, or be unfaithful to what doesn't exist, and as far as we know, God doesn't exist. You can see us as completely wrong about that, spiritually blind, or whatever, but to insist that we believe what we don't and that we are lying about it... that's pretty offensive right there.

 

[MidnightRose]

What I mean is, if someone not interested to come to Islam, we should not urge him, because we must be feel uncomfortable if Christian urge us to come to Christianity.

I know personally with few converts in my place. No one of them become Muslim because a Muslim 'chased' them. But because Allah gave them hidayah that made them come to Islam without being invited by anyone.

And special for Pygoscelis, he already know personally with few Muslims in his place.

I just kept the door open, that's all.

 

[Abz2000]

This is an interesting point, that has always left me a little conflicted. I take no offense at what najimuddin wrote, but I can understand how some may. On the one hand it is an act of love and kindness to share your faith and try to save others from what you see as the wrong path (and one with negative consequences for the person). On the other hand it completely disrespects and disregards what the person already believes and attaches value to. I remind you how so many Muslims are so hypersensitive about their own traditions and beliefs, to the point that I'm not to do something as simple as draw Muhammad. As ardianto said, how do you feel when Christians try to convert you to Christianity and turn you away from Islam?

one cannot compare chalk with cheese based upon nutritional benefits or method of use by assuming them both to be the same thing, as mentioned earlier, it is just a mechanism for contention, opposition and denial.
the Prophet pbuh is worth more to us than our mothers, and it is haraam - unlawful to insult his character, please do not be spitefully disresptectful because there is no benefit, rather a lot of harm in doing so, the fact that you pretend to advocate peaceful coexistence and respect amongst people while at the same time insult the messenger of God is proof of duplicity and hidden malice. If you thout it was ok to draw a picture of pygo's mom with her knickers on and broadcast it, i would have to say that you've lost a sense of dignity that God bestowed upon human beings, but then, the concept of sacred honour can't mean much to a poor debased infidel.
Be not like those who forgot God, so they forgot themselves, they are the transgressors
.

So "Kafir" means basically the same as "Infidel"? This is interesting. So I am not a "Kafir" after all, as I don't reject or deny truth.

One of the most common errors theists make in regard to atheists is this constant insistence that atheists reject, rebel against, or are unfaithful to God. We're not. We can't be. You can't reject, rebel against, or be unfaithful to what doesn't exist, and as far as we know, God doesn't exist. You can see us as completely wrong about that, spiritually blind, or whatever, but to insist that we believe what we don't and that we are lying about it... that's pretty offensive right there.

Funny when someone would attempt to justify their denial of the truth that something existed while trying to lean on it 's grace as if it were a bannister.
Even funnier that they throw the correct guidance behind their backs and try to use it as a magical compass, a compass which they try to manipulate, trick, confuse and force to point in the wrong direction so that they can walk in the wrong direction, even more funnier when it points north, and they want to go south, so they try to pretend to themselves that the arrow points the opposite way.

9.*Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
10.*In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
11.*When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"
12.*Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
13.*When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?"
Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

Quran Chapter 2:10-13

You're using 1960s 70s kufr arguments in plain sight dude, and only discrediting yourself in the process, i'm using those from 1400 years ago, and they're eternal and obvious to the beholders lol.
There's a huge difference between a classic muscle car and a brand new helium filled toy balloon.

 

[Zafran]

There is difference between secularism which is put religion only in personal area and does not affect public policy, and atheism which is a 'belief' that God doesn't exist. USA is not atheist country, but secular country. And people in ancient Athens were not atheists, but pagans.

Or atheism is a disbelief - the way we disbelieve in the Hindu Gods, or the pagan Gods of the Greeks etc.

You're using 1960s 70s kufr arguments in plain sight dude, and only discrediting yourself in the process, i'm using those from 1400 years ago, and they're eternal and obvious to the beholders lol.
There's a huge difference between a classic muscle car and a brand new helium filled toy balloon.

Are you trying to give Dawah or what?

 

[Abz2000]

Are you trying to give Dawah or what?

Yup, dawah consists of proclaiming the message of Allah clearly and dealing with attempts at foolish contention with what is appropriate for the listener/debater to understand.
Read the story of Ibrahim pbuh and the disputer if uncertain.

Here's one where Abu Bakr as Siddeeq lost sorely and even had the messenger of Allah pbuh smiling, though his colorful response to the impudent false words of Urwa ibn Masu'ud at hudaybiyyah would probably even make qe2 blush

20.Know that the life of this world is but play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting and multiplying, (in rivalry) among yourselves, riches and children.
Here is a similitude: How rain and the growth which it brings forth, delight (the hearts of) the tillers; soon it withers; thou wilt see it grow yellow; then it becomes dry and crumbles away. But in the Hereafter is a Penalty severe (for the devotees of wrong). And Forgiveness from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure (for the devotees of Allah.. And what is the life of this world, but goods and chattels of deception?
21.*Be foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His Messengers:
that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.

QURAN Chapter 57 verse 20-21

Also check out some different methods of the messenger of Allah if uncertain, you will often notice what sometimes appears like light hearted competition but with serious and even deadly tones, the rhyme, eloquence and rhythm canot be captured in english but the translation should suffice as to depth and effect:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/abz2000123/Islam/20151113_080102_zpsvtvgmzqp.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/abz2000123/Islam/20151113_080149_zpsow8joqng.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/abz2000123/Islam/20151113_080231_zps7l5tozmr.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/abz2000123/Islam/20151113_080300_zpsui4u7i92.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugBUkEf2fAs

 

[Pygoscelis]

you pretend to advocate peaceful coexistence and respect amongst people while at the same time insult the messenger of God

I don't insult the messenger of God. I insult you. And I do it by merely existing. You have said it numerous times. Nothing short of becoming Muslim is good enough for you to stop your hatred, and becoming a Muslim is something that I can not do, because I don't believe your God exists. I see your God as imaginary. I know that eats you up inside and I know you can't accept it, but it is true. And it being true, means that I can't reject, rebel against, or be unfaithful to your God. I could lie and pretend to believe in God, and pretend to be a Muslim I suppose, repeating words I don't mean or agree with, like I was an actor in a movie, but would that not be the biggest insult of all to genuine Muslims everywhere? And wouldn't it be an insult to your God, if he does exist? Surely he'd see right through such dishonesty.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I don't insult the messenger of God. I insult you. And I do it by merely existing. You have said it numerous times. Nothing short of becoming Muslim is good enough for you to stop your hatred, and becoming a Muslim is something that I can not do, because I don't believe your God exists. I see your God as imaginary. I know that eats you up inside and I know you can't accept it, but it is true. And it being true, means that I can't reject, rebel against, or be unfaithful to your God. I could lie and pretend to believe in God, and pretend to be a Muslim I suppose, repeating words I don't mean or agree with, like I was an actor in a movie, but would that not be the biggest insult of all to genuine Muslims everywhere? And wouldn't it be an insult to your God, if he does exist? Surely he'd see right through such dishonesty.

I'm just guessing here, but you believe in evolution based on supporting scientific evidence right?

You most likely admit to yourself that you don't know the origins of existence? That is an understandable position.

So it is safe to say that though we don't understand the origins of existence or the limits of it, then we can't rule out a creative force at some point. A cause for the effect that is observable existence.

You don't find it odd that all peaceful faiths throughout time and culture convey similar messages? I know that "religion" has been lead astray in many places, forms, and ways, but you should try not to let that blind you or cause bias in your thought processes in reference to One Creator GOD. Names for God are in themselves a means of division for the acquisition of power or wealth or subjugation. Based on core scriptures and the teachings that can be extracted from them, and the fact that they all convey a similar message for similar reasons lends credence to my Faith in One Creator GOD.

Sorry, kinda going off on a tangent I guess.

Peace

 

[Pygoscelis]

Hi pops,

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be looked on fondly if I went into why I don't agree with what you say, or gave reasons for not believing in Gods. This isn't a comparative religion forum. My simple point was that I don't believe in God, and some seem unable to believe or accept that, insisting on painting myself and other atheists into a position none of us hold (by definition). My other point was that if Muslims expect to be treated with sensitivity and respect, they should respect those of us who are not Muslim as well, and that includes taking us at our word etc.

 

[Search]

:bism:

In this post, I really feel what you're saying because as a former atheist I felt the same way.

To be honest, until I started practicing Islam, I wouldn't have fully understood why people would be interested in sharing their religion - however, seriously, take it as a compliment and testament to your goodness or something attractive in your personality that would motivate someone to share something that they consider valuable to them.

That said, I can completely understand your sensitivity because I felt the same way, because though I had Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Jewish and atheist/agnostic friends in college, as you can imagine, the only two types that inclined towards sharing the religion were the Muslim and Christian ones. That is understandable because only those two religions are into proselytizing, which I think is great in some ways, but at the same time, I disagree so many times with the approach that I see some individuals adopt in this process.

For the others in this thread (and I'm talking just generally, not specifically not to anyone here, please understand) I'd just like to take a moment to talk about atheism. People believe that atheism involves actually denying some religion or truth or Supreme Being. For some, I don't know, it really might be the case. But you have to understand that there are atheists of different stripes. People are atheists for many different reasons, and actually some of them truly, really, actually do not believe and are not denying anything because they really don't think there is anything to deny. I know this because I was an atheist.

Spiritually, in Islam, lack of belief makes sense because people have to recognize that belief is in the heart than then is impressed onto the mind's workings; so, if someone lacks a belief, then the person is also rejecting from the heart and mind the belief because it may not seem natural to that person. This does not mean that the person is bad or doesn't have morals or is somehow inherently evil; to be honest, I have experienced people having implied the first certainly in my case when I was an atheist, and to be honest, I was offended because obviously this was IRL. I was in my mind like, hey, I give charity, and I'm a good person, like not harming anyone, and I'm not committing crimes - so, how am I a bad person? And now as a Muslim, I feel more strongly that we should not judge who is going to be suffering in eternity and who is going to be in bliss - because simply, God proposes to judge mankind on Judgment Day, and it's only human beings who insist on judging human this ephemeral moment.

Not to mention, one of the things I used to dislike about adherents of different religions is the utter hypocrisy, basically trying to teach something that is not in tune with personal character. For example, I didn't have to read all different religious scriptures to know that backbiting fellow friends and others was wrong; and yet the people in question would do that, then expect me as an atheist to somehow be attracted to the religion in question. I'm sorry, but I always felt that was strange.

First, I'd like to emphasize that people IRL will learn more from you in three days of interacting with you, basically observing you, your character, your manners, your general speech, general actions than to have you say something specific or feel-good about the religion; and honestly, I'm a Muslim today because of Islam, because I studied Islam on my own, and not any Muslim because I didn't find Muslims of the caliber that really Islam asks Muslims to maintain.

So, if you want the best for someone, atheist or not, be patient and let that person find his or her own path and know that Allah is working in his/her life as well and simply make heartfelt duas (supplications) for that person; otherwise, in consistent arguing or debating or ad hominem or trying to win, you're not really showing any true caring for that person because whether you recognize or not you might honestly just be motivated by ego or self-righteousness and not actually piety and selflessness.

If someone wants to talk about deen, that's mostly fine, I guess, but to first talk about Hell just wrings not a good feeling in any person. For example, Prophet Muhammad :saws: for first 13 years talked about the Oneness of God, then only about other things. Imagine. And many times, people today want to talk about Hell before even talking about the mercy and greatness and love of Allah - I don't know, I just wish people wouldn't do that and realize how arrogant that sounds to a person who is supposed to be invited to Islam.

Finally, I think it's really important to understand and respect the humanness of every human being, regardless of whether this is a person of faith or no faith; at the end of the day, I'm more of the type of person who believes in a righteous person planting good seeds in everyone's life, and letting Allah germinate them into fruition, and maybe one day that will translate into belief for some of the persons in whom you recognized humanness.

Thanks for letting me ramble, guys; I love IB.

This is an interesting point, that has always left me a little conflicted. I take no offense at what najimuddin wrote, but I can understand how some may. On the one hand it is an act of love and kindness to share your faith and try to save others from what you see as the wrong path (and one with negative consequences for the person). On the other hand it completely disrespects and disregards what the person already believes and attaches value to. I remind you how so many Muslims are so hypersensitive about their own traditions and beliefs, to the point that I'm not to do something as simple as draw Muhammad. As ardianto said, how do you feel when Christians try to convert you to Christianity and turn you away from Islam?



So "Kafir" means basically the same as "Infidel"? This is interesting. So I am not a "Kafir" after all, as I don't reject or deny truth.

One of the most common errors theists make in regard to atheists is this constant insistence that atheists reject, rebel against, or are unfaithful to God. We're not. We can't be. You can't reject, rebel against, or be unfaithful to what doesn't exist, and as far as we know, God doesn't exist. You can see us as completely wrong about that, spiritually blind, or whatever, but to insist that we believe what we don't and that we are lying about it... that's pretty offensive right there.

 

[Abz2000]

The Law of God as clearly defined in the Quran and Sunnah have been sent down in order to be obeyed in humility, we all stand to gain from the coherence, unity, harmony, and assistance that comes with it. It also helps settle differences between nations and individuals based upon justice, sincerity, truth and good conduct.
Allah tells His messenger to ask the disputers to produce a book that guides better to the path of justice and righteousness if they are truthful in their claim of doubting Allah's revelation, all that they have been able to produce in antithesis is confusion and corruption.
The mushrikeen went from enforcing long created myths claimed to have been prescribed by idols and ancestral folklore - to quickly writing up laws when and where it pleased the lusts and vain desires of any pretender to authority and religiously adhered to them. (In the name of the lords - to-in the name of the law)
They then saw the danger of such brazen vandalism and resorted to writing constitutions to which they'd religiously adhere, only for such in the moment pieces to become obsolete within a few centuries.
and now again, they have resorted to brazen vandalism and brash lies in face of a very observant world.
there is no room for argument against the truth and hujjah of Allah, it only takes a calm and objective mind to see this after taking historic and current events into the equation, nor am i claiming to be an angel, and neither was i upon this path all my life, i have suffered much from the confused and corrupted ways in which i grew up and cannot be accused of being "tribal" or "stubborn in patriotic ways".

That's some part of the logic besides the force behind the law of Allah.
there are severe consequences in this world and in eternity for straying from the natural laws of Allah and refusing to stop, consider and repent of kufr and foolishness.
The law of Allah applies to the king and he commoner alike and has no room for injustice, usurpation, and weilding of authority whilst changing the laws which were written on whims in the first place - for the sake of whims.
One cannot claim to disbelieve in the law of Allah and therefore claim immunity from it after He has sent down clear signs and wisdom, the problem becomes even more magnified when such people in denial attempt to claim scientifically objective high ground in their position whilst openly concealing the truth that is self-evident to all, such behaviour only makes clear their false position and hidden malicious and dubious objectives to the whole of mankind and they bear witness to standing upon falsehood and injustice within themselves before God from whom nothing whatsoever is hidden whether in the heavens or on and in the earth.
Best to stop playing around in falsehood and corruption and submit to God's universal guidance and wisdom, thereby collectively attaining success in this world and unending benefits and happiness in eternity, and be saved from the humiliating result of insistence upon self evident falsehood and the corruption, confusion and disharmony that inevitably comes with it in this world, and the severe chastisement that awaits the unrepentant wrongdoers after perfectly just judgement in eternity.

Nobody has a right to disobey the universal laws of Allah just because they disagree with them - think.
The facts become even more self evident when someone who claims to be tolerant and liberal demands that people submit to a confused hotchpotch of regularly switched edicts written by those people who are considered criminals by their very own standards- under threat of chastisement, electrocution, gassing, poison injection, and other forms of administering death and torture - psychological and physical. When such man made whimsical edicts are at regular variance with each other across imaginary borders of fiefdoms and protection rackets drawn by the very same people, even if masses of people and minorities disagree, object or reject the authority of such criminals.
Look at how they claim justice, progress, and scientific objectivity, yet when they get questioned on obviously plain to see immoral and unjust acts, they resort to religiously presenting laws like their ancestors previously used idols, laws unable to see or hear, speak, benefit or harm, carved by themselves or their predecessors who were people of the same authority as them, laws which they claim must be adhered to despite the injustice, laws which they regularly ignore or twist, as justification for their crimes, and when that too is questioned, just resort to writing new laws or executive orders or state of emergency open season after false flags perpetrated by themselves, to adhere to in order to prevent their acts from condemning themselves:
Recall that when obama could find no constitutional or lawful excuses for his murder of the respected activist and vocal american scholar anwar al awlaki who regularly condemned the crimes of obama and his henchmen and incited masses against the corrupt kafir criminals, obama just claimed "he was a threat" and the whitehouses ex-spokesman claimed the that 16 year old abd ar rahman who was murdered two weeks later "should have had a more responsible father".

Look at how silly the situation of collectively enforced kufr religion has become:

 

[Pygoscelis]

One cannot claim to disbelieve in the law of Allah and therefore claim immunity from it after He has sent down clear signs and wisdom, the problem becomes even more magnified when such people in denial attempt to claim scientifically objective high ground in their position whilst openly concealing the truth that is self-evident to all, such behaviour only makes clear their false position and hidden malicious and dubious objectives to the whole of mankind and they bear witness to standing upon falsehood and injustice within themselves before God from whom nothing whatsoever is hidden whether in the heavens or on and in the earth.

And there it is again. The desperate need to believe that atheists don't exist, and that we all must secretly believe in your God.

I suppose that I can be dismissed as a western liberal kaffir, so I must be an insidious dirty liar... but what of Search? Here you have a fellow Muslim saying he used to not believe in God before he had his spiritual awakening. Is that as easy to dismiss? Is he pretending that he didn't used to believe, when in fact he believed all along? To what end?

The psychology of this fascinates me. In politics I am a liberal. Conservatives don't usually accuse me of really being a conservative and pretending to be liberal. In hockey I am a Toronto Maple Leafs fan. Boston Bruins fans don't accuse me of secretly being a Bruins fan and only pretending to be a Leafs fan. Why is it different when it comes to theism? Why this dire need to believe that nobody could truly not believe in God? Does it somehow threaten your faith?

Or... what if... maybe Abz is not a true Muslim, and only pretending to be Muslim so he can try to tell actual Muslims how they should behave! mg: Or maybe to make Muslims look bad so people like Donald Trump can point to him. You are really an atheist, right Abz? This is all an act, right? You can come on out and admit it now. Terrible atheists like you are always telling lies, Abz. Perhaps you should accept Jesus Christ as you personal lord and saviour and stop your lying ways.

Note for the sarcasm impaired: The paragraph immediately above may be sarcasm.

 

[Abz2000]

Lol are you expecting a reply?

Might as well add that the same claims were uttered in the past and appear to have been passed down as a heirloom, claims such as "he's dividing everyone with his call that God is One.


The desert Arabs say, "We believe."
Say (to them), "You have no faith; but (only) say, 'We have submitted our wills to Allah,'
For not yet has Faith entered your hearts.
But if ye obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Quran 49:14

As you can see, the social requirement is that people submit to God's laws and conduct themselves in line with the Quran and Sunnah to the best of their sincere ability.
If you reject the truth in your heart, it is your own problem for which God will judge you, but it is unlawful to walk around naked in public, amongst other just and civilized Islamic statutes.