Australian Imam calls for gay marriage in mosques on SBS Insight show tonight

[ardianto]

Sexual orientation is a choice, and those who think differently are confused people

Only bisexual people who can choose their sexual orientation. But homo cannot switch into hetero.

Bisexual people actually can live normally, get married with opposite gender, if they focus their desire only to opposite gender. They still have desire to same gender but it's getting lower and they can control it.

However, if they prefer homosexuality, then they can turn into gay because their desire to opposite gender will getting lower.

Not every gay is pure homo, there are many of them who actually just bisexual people.

The biggest factor that can make bisexual people (or people with tendency to bisexual) choose sexual orientation is the society view on homosexuality. If homosexuality become normal and acceptable, they will not hesitate to choose homosexuality.

I understand that gays want to have partner and feel a love. But they must know the limit. They should not invite other people to homosexuality with promote homosexuality as normal and acceptable behavior.

Call for gay marriage is a way to make homosexuality become normal. Ironically it's happen in society where a man and a woman can live together without getting married.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

I can only assume you've never actually met a gay person.

I have. And I recall gay people always saying that they've "made a choice to be gay", until all this garbage about being born gay emerged out of the sewage.

It's in the innateness in human beings to desire the opposite gender and it's gross deviation to want the same gender. Even children have an aversion to homosexuality without ever being taught if it's right or wrong.

Homosexuality is a choice and facts can never be argued with.

 

[observer]

I have. And I recall gay people always saying that they've "made a choice to be gay", until all this garbage about being born gay emerged out of the sewage.

It's in the innateness in human beings to desire the opposite gender and it's gross deviation to want the same gender. Even children have an aversion to homosexuality without ever being taught if it's right or wrong.

Homosexuality is a choice and facts can never be argued with.

When did that come out then? What facts are you speaking of?

Your statements are wrong and offensive. When people criticise the intolerance of islam in the media - this is what they are criticising.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

When did that come out then? What facts are you speaking of?

Your statements are wrong and offensive. When people criticise the intolerance of islam in the media - this is what they are criticising.

The facts I'm speaking of are how gay people have always said to have made a choice I.e. they changed their preferences from natural to unnatural at some point in their lives. This fact has been evident my whole life from the mouths of gay people themselves.

The claim that homosexuality is biological remains a claim as it is yet to be conclusively demonstrated.

These are the facts that I'm talking about it.

 

[observer]

The claim that homosexuality is biological remains a claim as it is yet to be conclusively demonstrated.

As does the claim that it is not.

When did gay people ever say they chose to be gay? I must have missed that.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

As does the claim that it is not.

When did gay people ever say they chose to be gay? I must have missed that.

Then I can only assume you've never met a gay person.

 

[ardianto]

Not every man who has sexual orientation to same gender ever involved in homosexual activity, and not every man who have sex with another man is gay.

Being gay is not a choice, but have sex with same gender is a choice.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Not every man who has sexual orientation to same gender ever involved in homosexual activity, and not every man who have sex with another man is gay.

Being gay is not a choice, but have sex with same gender is a choice.

How can you not have a choice in something that's sinful?? Every sin that is committed is committed by a choice. Whether it's feelings for the opposite gender or everything after that - they're all choices.

The basic principle in Islam is that everything that can potentially lead to a sin is in itself a sin and is therefore forbidden.

If you mean one just happens to feel something then he or she has the ability to control it, seek refuge in Allah and do good deeds to put away these thoughts but letting it become a desire is sinful.

If you're referring to feelings that happen to just pass through a person momentarily but then that person works hard to move past these feelings, and eventually does, then we have no argument. But if you're referring to these feelings maturing to become desire than your understanding is mistaken.

When Lut (a.s) was arguing with his people about their homosexual behaviour he condemned them by saying:

أَتَأْتُونَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مَا سَبَقَكُم بِهَا مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِّنَ الْعَالَمِينَ

"Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?" (Quran 7:80)

In this verse Lut appeals to his people via reason I.e how can they even think of such a thing? Therefore, it makes no sense to say that gay feelings are acceptable yet practising it isn't!

 

[observer]

How can you not have a choice in something that's sinful?? Every sin that is committed is committed by a choice. Whether it's feelings for the opposite gender or everything after that - they're all choices.

I know many gay people, the vast majority of whom are in loving relationships. Like the loving relationship I have with my girlfriend. Exactly the same. Equal.

When we see bigotry such as you display against gay people displayed against muslims - how do you react? Bigotry is bigotry and your comments here are incredibly bigoted.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

I know many gay people, the vast majority of whom are in loving relationships. Like the loving relationship I have with my girlfriend. Exactly the same. Equal.

When we see bigotry such as you display against gay people displayed against muslims - how do you react? Bigotry is bigotry and your comments here are incredibly bigoted.

I'm not intolerant towards different opinions and you're very judgemental to jump to that conclusion. The proof of that is that you twice said to me "you're wrong" whereas I made no such assertion towards you.

What I did say however - albeit very strongly and I do not and will not retract my statements - is that homosexuality is a choice and all this I'm-born-gay-so-I-can't-help-it nonsense is a load of garbage. Homosexuality is a choice and I have a strong aversion to it and that isn't going to change.

This does not make me a bigot.

EDIT:

To add to this, I will speak out against this so-called, self-styled/self labeled "imam" in the strongest terms because his actions equal to desbelief. The most basic principle of Islam which even the most ignorant Muslim understands is that changing any part of the religion is disbelieving in all of Islam. He's calling towards something that is forbidden in so many levels and yet he somehow has to nerve to call his actions Islamic.

 

[observer]

I'm not intolerant towards different opinions

Yes, your tolerance towards homosexuals shines through.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Yes, your tolerance towards homosexuals shines through.

Does that make me a bigot? I beg to differ.

 

[observer]

Does that make me a bigot? I beg to differ.

Yes. Yes it does.

Not liking homosexuality is one thing - you're completely entitled to disapprove. The way you object is bigoted and ugly. You wouldn't accept someone talking about your religion the way you have about homosexuality, would you?

 

[ardianto]

How can you not have a choice in something that's sinful?? Every sin that is committed is committed by a choice. Whether it's feelings for the opposite gender or everything after that - they're all choices.

The basic principle in Islam is that everything that can potentially lead to a sin is in itself a sin and is therefore forbidden.

What I mean with "gay" is man who interested only to the men, not the women. Being a man like this is not by choice. If they could choose they would not choose being a man like this.

Just like normal men who spontaneously feel something in their heart when they see attractive woman, the gays also spontaneously feel something when they see an attractive man. It's happen spontaneously, which they cannot control it.

I know it not because I am gay. I am not gay, but .......

Frankly, one thing that make me grateful is beauty that Allah has given to me. It's not only made me easy to find a woman who wanted to be my partner, but also made me familiar with gaze of people when they felt something when they looked at me. I say people because few of them were males!

But I saw two different attitude of those men. There were of them who tried to control themselves and didn't do something wrong to me. There were of them who then tried to seduce me. Even one of them made intensive approachment because he wanted to be my 'boyfriend'.

Not every man who being gay surrender to their desire to the male. I know a man who I believe is gay, but he choose to live celibacy. He is almost 60 now. I also know few gays who ever active in homosexuality, but now they have repented and tried to not back to their bad habit again.

I know they still feel a desire when they see an attractive man. It's happen spontaneously which they cannot control. But then they try to control themselves to not surrender to their desire.

Do you know how heavy their struggle in controling themselves to not fall into sin?. So, should we punish them or we should support them to make them stronger in passing difficulty in their life?.

But of course, we cannot let the gays who want to influence people to accept homosexuality as normal behavior. Not only sin, but it also can make non-gays interested to try homosexuality. Like I've said, not every man who involved in homosexuality is gay.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Yes. Yes it does.

Not liking homosexuality is one thing - you're completely entitled to disapprove. The way you object is bigoted and ugly. You wouldn't accept someone talking about your religion the way you have about homosexuality, would you?

I'm not going to argue with you by repeating myself. I've already made my point.

 

[Muhaba]

Homosexuality is abnormal. No one is born gay. Some are gay because sometime when they were growing up, for one reason or another (not necessarily abuse) they were 'programmed' to become gay. I already wrote about this in another thread.

There are various reasons why homosexuality is abnormal and not normal human functioning. For one thing, reproduction only occurs through heterosexual relations. Another reason is that the male and female complement each other and the normal system is one of harmony both at the family level and at the level of society. On the other hand, homosexuality doesn't allow for harmony. In the normal male-female relation system, men and women have beautiful relations not only with the opposite sex but also with their own sex. Women are not other women's enemies and men are not other men's enemies. There is no competition amongst the people. On the other hand, gays (men and women) cannot have a normal friendly relationship with the opposite sex. They start competing with the opposite sex to such a level that they become enemies of the opposite sex.

A third reason is that God made pairs for a reason. And just like magnets, humans are sexual attracted to the opposite gender.

 

[Muhaba]

I have. And I recall gay people always saying that they've "made a choice to be gay", until all this garbage about being born gay emerged out of the sewage.
It's in the innateness in human beings to desire the opposite gender and it's gross deviation to want the same gender. Even children have an aversion to homosexuality without ever being taught if it's right or wrong.
Homosexuality is a choice and facts can never be argued with.

I totally agree with you. I was looking into some statements made by gays and many gays said they found themselves attracted to the opposite gender. Some said that they got feelings which made them confused. That further proves that attraction to the opposite gender is innate. You'll never find a heterosexual person say there were times when they were attracted to their own gender. But here are gays saying there are times when they feel an attraction to the opposite gender.

It seems that all the information about homosexuality that is being circulated amongst youngsters has gotten people confused about their sexuality.

 

[observer]

On the other hand, gays (men and women) cannot have a normal friendly relationship with the opposite sex.

What? Are you serious? "Gays" can't have a normal, friendly relationship with people of the opposite sex? I cannot comprehend how you can arrive at that conclusion. It's just so wrong in so many ways.

 

[ardianto]

On the other hand, gays (men and women) cannot have a normal friendly relationship with the opposite sex. They start competing with the opposite sex to such a level that they become enemies of the opposite sex.

Gays can have normal friendship with opposite gender, even feminine male gay are closer to women than men in friendship. Male gays are attracted to a man, but they do not compete with women. If they realize the man who their like is normal man who like woman, they will retreat.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

^

I don't fully get you. Are you for or against gays?