Australian Imam calls for gay marriage in mosques on SBS Insight show tonight

[ardianto]

^

I don't fully get you. Are you for or against gays?

I against homosexuality, and I stand with homosexual people who want to stay away from homosexuality.

I've ever described homosexual people as people in disease. Yes, they are suffer from something that they never want to get. If they could choose, they would not choose to be homosexual.

There are among them who know that homosexuality is sin and wrong. They want to leave homosexuality and want to stay away from it, and they need our support. But if we see them as sinner who should to be punished and we push them away, they would stay with those who enjoy homosexuality.

We should help them, and at first we need to understand them. If I made post that seem like defend them, it's because I tried to make people here understand about them.

Of course, not every homo is good. There are many of them who enjoy homosexuality, and even try to 'infect' homosexuality to other people.

I am sure, those who support gay rights object with term "infect" which I use. But if they have ever seen what I have seen, maybe they will understand why I say like this.

We should fight homosexuality, but we also should help those who suffer from this 'disease'. Of course, with the right way, not with let them enjoy this disease.

I have met gay people, I had interact them, I noticed how their life. And I asked myself "If I was gay, how would I feel, how should I live my life?"

 

[ardianto]

I can only assume you've never actually met a gay person.

I am sure you have met gay people. But how did you know that they are gays?.

Interact with people who tell us they are gays, and interact with people who don't tell us they are gays but their attitude and behavior clearly show they are gays, will give us different view on them.

 

[faithandpeace]

Assalamu alaikum. Islam is submission to Allah (swt). Whether or not someone chooses to be homosexual or seems to be born that way the fact is that homosexuality has been prohibited by Allah (swt) and this information has been revealed to us via the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Our opinion on the matter is irrelevant. The same goes with drinking alcohol or eating pig. People can argue that a bit of alcohol can settle one's stomach or that some pork products taste good or that a little of these things won't cause physical harm. People argue that homosexuality when done privately behind closed doors does not hurt anyone either. Whether or not any of these positions have merit is irrelevant. Allah (swt) has prohibited these things. If Allah (swt) tells us to stay away from homosexuality then as Muslims we are required to do so. People who consider themselves homosexuals will obviously find such prohibition to be a struggle in their lives but the same goes with anyone else committing any other kind of sin. We must not forget that Islam means submission and that it is our obligation to submit to Allah's (swt) will regardless. Conquer your nafs and guard against waswas insha'Allah.

 

[Iceee]

Salaam.

This thread is turning deadly red. Let's get back on track

Homosexuality is abnormal. No one is born gay. Some are gay because sometime when they were growing up, for one reason or another (not necessarily abuse) they were 'programmed' to become gay.

Please see: http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134318254-homosexuality-nature-nurture.html

I agree with your comment, based on my own personal experiences. I'll agree that nobody is born "gay" or homosexual, it's not nature, but nurture that determines your sexual orientation.

A lot of my friends who have gotten married recently, I've noticed had a similar childhood as me. Born and raised by both Muslim parents, going outside everyday to play sports, going to the same school etc. So for all of us being "straight" and getting married to girls was the norm I guess. We didn't talk about girls much, we just played safe and avoided talking about sex and stuff like that. I guess we were programmed that way, that thinking such thoughts was nasty, and that we will have the most fun when we get married... to our wife.

I totally agree with you. I was looking into some statements made by gays and many gays said they found themselves attracted to the opposite gender. Some said that they got feelings which made them confused. That further proves that attraction to the opposite gender is innate. You'll never find a heterosexual person say there were times when they were attracted to their own gender. But here are gays saying there are times when they feel an attraction to the opposite gender.

As for people who are attracted to the same gender, here's my experience. ALL of the gay people I've talked to and watched had a different childhood upbringing. Whether it be raised by a single mother, having older siblings who bullied them, staying at home all day, getting bullied (sometimes by their Dad), etc. So many factors changed their lives differently than mine or my childhood friends. Even different than your lives, think about it...

I've asked my gay friends if they maybe were in fact attracted to girls, their answer, no. They believe they were born gay.

We all have different opinions, assumptions, and experiences. Let's not hate each-other for our opinions, let's love one another as the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) loved his companions. We all grew up differently, in different countries, in different homes, in different families, so to assume we all have one opinion, well, that will make us boring .

To conclude, we all have/had different experiences in our past. Maybe someone may seem to hate gay people, maybe someone may like them as good friends, we're all different.

 

[observer]

I am sure you have met gay people. But how did you know that they are gays?.

Interact with people who tell us they are gays, and interact with people who don't tell us they are gays but their attitude and behavior clearly show they are gays, will give us different view on them.

Because they were open about their sexuality and rightly not ashamed. Because I am friends with gay men and women and their partners. I think if people don't agree with homosexuality then ok, that's their personal right. But as soon as words like "unnatural" and worse get thrown around, then I think a line's been crossed.

 

[InToTheRain]

Because they were open about their sexuality and rightly not ashamed. Because I am friends with gay men and women and their partners. I think if people don't agree with homosexuality then ok, that's their personal right. But as soon as words like "unnatural" and worse get thrown around, then I think a line's been crossed.

If you believe Homosexuality is naturally inherent in some individuals therefore it is justified then what of incest? Bestiality?

As Muslims we know that all human beings are born with a natural affinity, the Fitrah, towards that which is true and good. So we can't agree that someone is homosexual inherently. Rather they are influenced and succumb to it. Some people are more passionate, pronounced and sensitive then others and they can use these gifts/characteristics correctly or incorrectly as is the case with homosexuals.

Also Islamic law tends to nip the bud at its roots. Homosexuality is a practice which can lead to the extinction of mankind should everyone decide to practice it; even if the possibility is 0.01%. Just because it doesn't pose such a threat now doesn't mean we should open the flood gates.

I am no homophobe (well at least I don't think so ); hate the action not the crime as the saying goes. I have no problem getting along with homosexuals (come across many at work) but what they are doing and encouraging is wrong and unnatural. I agree with it being classified as a mental disease as it was done so before 1973 and those who encourage this strain of mental thought are not helping.

 

[observer]

If you believe Homosexuality is naturally inherent in some individuals therefore it is justified then what of incest? Bestiality?

Do you really equate homosexuality with incest and bestiality? Really? If you do, I honestly think you need to evaluate your own mindset. That's just a disgusting, ridiculous comparison.

And calling homosexuality a mental disease - have you any idea how many homosexuals suffered horrifically because of this draconian legislation? How many suicides it caused? If homosexuality was truly a choice, why would people choose to be punished so?

I just cannot understand this line of thinking that says homosexuality is chosen - it flies in the face of all the evidence and is just plainly wrong.

I try to stand up for islam if ever I hear it being defamed but I see threads like this and I just think "why bother?" . Why defend one minority group so that they are free to abuse another minority group? What's more, I've heard gay friends of mine defend islam and to hear them abused like this is just utterly, utterly sickening. These attitudes are embarrassing and completely out of touch with reality.

Homosexuality is as natural having black hair, or being left handed, or being born white or black. How many marriages have been wrecked because one partner had married in order to try to conform and to hide their true sexuality?

It's just so depressing reading threads like this. You don't have to be friends with homosexuals. You don't have to like them. You don't have to welcome them into your home or your place of worship. Ignore them if you want. But just leave them alone. Stop attacking them.

How many threads have been on here highlighting insults towards muslims? Yet insults towards homosexuals are all over the forum. What's that saying about earning respect before demanding it?

Shameful.

 

[InToTheRain]

Do you really equate homosexuality with incest and bestiality? Really? If you do, I honestly think you need to evaluate your own mindset. That's just a disgusting, ridiculous comparison.
Shameful.

Please elaborate, how can homosexuality be seen as natural but incest is seen as disgusting and ridiculous? On what basis? Numbers? the affection of the people in question? Aren't the sentiments you so clearly show towards incest the very same that was held for Homosexuals not so long ago? What's the deciding factor?
Also it appears that there is an argument for it being part of the genetic make up
http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/may/17/weekend7.weekend2

So observer. are you all for incest now? Isn't there a stronger argument for incest being more natural then homosexuality?

But yet you have a strong disgust for it because you were bought up in an environment, society and culture where it is seen as morally wrong.

I am not trying to insult anyone and you are simply finding it insulting because you have missed the point so I will try explain again and hope you do not go into an emotional meltdown. There is not proof to say that Homosexuality is natural and as I have stated the Islamic perspective is that it develops later; as you yourself have stated it breaks marriages because the partner hasn't come out the "closet" but this doesn't prove that it's natural inherent no more then it proves some are born to be two timing cheats. If someone has these urges then they should consider it a trial or test; just like someone might have the urge to commit incest, or even have an affair; they should stop such urges as it is morally wrong and patiently endure till it goes. Such things lead to corruption within society as it breaks families and friends.

 

[observer]

Please elaborate, how can homosexuality be seen as natural but incest is seen as disgusting and ridiculous? On what basis? Numbers? the affection of the people in question? Aren't the sentiments you so clearly show towards incest the very same that was held for Homosexuals not so long ago? What's the deciding factor?

Let's take your point there: homosexuality can be seen as equal to incest. OK, so I suppose then, following that line of argument, that worshipping Allah can be seen as equal to worshipping any other god, no? Or do you distinguish some difference?

Just because homosexuality was seen as wrong a while ago doesn't make it right that it was seen so. Following the teachings of Muhammed was also seen as blasphemous and wrong in the west up until fairly recently: should we take that as precedent?

 

[جوري]

following that line of argument, that worshipping Allah can be seen as equal to worshipping any other god, no? Or do you distinguish some difference?

does it really matter who I worship or whom you deem me worshipping? What an unusual argument.
Religion isn't lewd sexual acts, I am not sure where you even come up with these very bizarre comparisons, it is as if you write just for the heck of it!

 

[InToTheRain]

Let's take your point there: homosexuality can be seen as equal to incest. OK, so I suppose then, following that line of argument, that worshipping Allah can be seen as equal to worshipping any other god, no? Or do you distinguish some difference?

Following from that line of argument it would mean that Worshipping Allah is the right thing to do. Homosexuality and incest are wrong which would be the equivalent of worshipping other gods.

Just because homosexuality was seen as wrong a while ago doesn't make it right that it was seen so. Following the teachings of Muhammed was also seen as blasphemous and wrong in the west up until fairly recently: should we take that as precedent?

I agree and that is not the reason why homosexuality is wrong. I have already given my reasons for why it is wrong so what is your reason for thinking it's right?

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

It's just so depressing reading threads like this. You don't have to be friends with homosexuals. You don't have to like them. You don't have to welcome them into your home or your place of worship. Ignore them if you want. But just leave them alone. Stop attacking them.

How many threads have been on here highlighting insults towards muslims? Yet insults towards homosexuals are all over the forum. What's that saying about earning respect before demanding it?

We must make a distinction between speaking out against a wrong and needlessly attacking a person/group. By pointing out the errors in a particular behaviour and attempting to discuss how to tackle the problem, a positive outcome is hoped for and it is not an attack (although sometimes people can make unhelpful remarks). A number of times people have said they are not attacking the person, rather they hate the action. And in a thread specifically on the issue of homosexuality being promoted in Mosques, it is all the more appropriate for Muslims to raise their concern and point out the Islamic teachings in this regard. Something concerning our very places of worship cannot be ignored and left alone. But once again, it does not mean we advocate dealing with such people unjustly.

In terms of your comparison with insults towards Muslims, that is a wholly different matter. People are often accusing Muslims of things which Islam does not even endorse, hence there is no justification in what they say, nor do they seek to resolve anything through their misplaced insults.

Now I am closing this thread as we have had many discussions on this topic and I don't think much is going to be achieved by allowing this one to continue.

Thread closed.