Beheadings for ‘witchcraft’

[GuestFellow]

^ Foreigners are mistreated, especially if they are poor.

 

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

Have any of you checked up on or debunked the story?



If this is true then it has nothing to do with the Sri Lankan woman intending anybody harm or even doing anything whatsoever. It is an accusation made by a man with no stated basis beside seeing his daughter acting abnormally. And the police arrested her based on that? Sounds just like Salem.

Are we missing something? Or are things really that insane in that country?

Edited to add: Did a little digging because I don't know the site this article is from and it didn't look legit to me. Turns out it likely is legit. Here is the reuters link http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/18/us-saudi-witchcraft-rights-idUSBRE83H0UM20120418

The article you quoted provides no information. Do you know about the trial, what evidences they found against her? First of all, she only got arrested, not beheaded. Second, the article mentions this at the end:

In December, Amnesty International condemned the beheading of a woman in Saudi Arabia convicted on charges of "sorcery and witchcraft," saying it underlined the urgent need to end executions in the kingdom.
Amnesty said the execution was the second of its kind last year. A Sudanese national was beheaded in the Saudi city of Medina in September after being convicted on sorcery charges, according to the London-based group.

TWO people in a year. It's not like they are doing a mass execution of suspects, these two people went through trials, which you were not a part of. They will not just behead any person on an accusation, there's rules to be followed when applying sharia law. It may sound harsh to you, but if you understood magic properly, your opinion would be different. You cannot compare the Salem witch trials to how Muslims deal with magicians. During the prosecutions of the Salem trials they did not follow appropriate steps to find them guilty or innocent, they dealt with the situation in a very ignorant manner. In Islam, it is not that difficult to tell real magicians apart from the rest, if you are well learned in Islam. A person who corrupts society with this stuff cannot be allowed to keep corrupting. But of course in modern day, as majority is in deep slumber, magic is seen like some kind of joke or game. THAT is what is insane to me.

Magic is a very serious crime, and while the rest of the world (in specific the west) learns to tolerate corruption and the ridiculous behavior of people now a days, at least in some places some kind of order is still kept, soon with all this tolerance and softness towards sin, that won't be the case.


- cOsMiC

 

[GuestFellow]

Are we missing something? Or are things really that insane in that country?

Speaking of insanity, don't you think it is insane for a bunch of men, marching down the street, half-naked, some wearing skimpy clothing, singing and dancing about gay-rights? Who knows, next year, they might start copying bollywood and start parading in the middle of a railway or on top of a skycraper.

 

[aamirsaab]

I actually read about a similar story before and from what they said, the police actually used entrapment to flush out the magician (in this particular case, it was a man who was apparently able to predict the future - I think he was from sudan), so I can appreciate people's scepticism on the matter.

This being said, from what I know of Saudi's legal mentality, it is a completely different ball game so I'm kind of on the fence of the matter. I've never been even remotely exposed to the magic/witchraft as described in Islam so I can't say much (i.e. if it is indeed true, I doubt the magic/witchcraft is anything like what us living in the west know of).

Similarly, I also know that there's a lot of under-handedness regarding this matter so it's difficult to consider as truth.

Regarding the punishment, it is difficult to justify given based on the evidence shown in the article. As you all know by now, there's a scale of punishments to mete out various crimes depending on their severity in Islam (and most forms of jurisprudence I'd imagine).

Going solely on the article, it says the victim began to act abnormal after she had gotten close to the perpetrator. So what we have is a vaguely described affect that by all accounts seems to have been blamed on a random person (sounds a lot like a witch hunt if I'm honest) - imo, death penalty sounds a little too harsh in this circumstance.

Again, this is going based on the article. We don't know anything about the trial - perhaps this was a real deal scenario, but based solely on the article, it does look like a witch hunt from ye old days.

I'm hoping she had a fair, islamic trial, but a huge part of me says otherwise.

 

[جوري]

This article does nothing for me other than the usual barrage of bull**** that they dish out everyday to conform to the same agenda of anti Islamic rhetoric.
Oh look at 'sharia law' oh look the rest of the 7c simpletons want to implement 'sharia law' which is barbaric, antiquated, absurd... etc. etc.
sharia law is a witch hunt, a woman's nightmare a 'free person's oppression.
Half of the time I don't want to even dignify it. Although I heard from one of my preceptors of late to be careful if I go make pilgrimage that they'll hang me for being a witch haha I thought.. I told him there's a different kind of with hunt going on here which I have more of a chance of being a victim of.

[FONT=Verdana,arial]

WaittabaAAoo ma tatloo alshshayateenu AAala mulki sulaymana wama kafara sulaymanu walakinna alshshayateena kafaroo yuAAallimoona alnnasa alssihra wama onzila AAala almalakayni bibabila haroota wamaroota wama yuAAallimani min ahadin hatta yaqoola innama nahnu fitnatun fala takfur fayataAAallamoona minhuma ma yufarriqoona bihi bayna almari wazawjihi wama hum bidarreena bihi min ahadin illa biithni Allahi wayataAAallamoona ma yadurruhum wala yanfaAAuhum walaqad AAalimoo lamani ishtarahu ma lahu fee alakhirati min khalaqin walabisa ma sharaw bihi anfusahum law kanoo yaAAlamoona​

2:102 They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!


Again, never a question of if you drown you weren't a witch and if you fly away you're... I can't stand the simpleton mind of westerners and their approach to every problem with the same simpleton level of consciousness that concocted it. They can't for a minute step outside the box that is their two brain cells held together by a spirochete to conjecture that there's a whole other world out there that doesn't think and act similarly to them only on a more inferior level as that would require an entire paradigm shift to brain gears that are only set a certain way and have rusted as such..
​

[/FONT]

 

[Pygoscelis]

Speaking of insanity, don't you think it is insane for a bunch of men, marching down the street, half-naked, some wearing skimpy clothing, singing and dancing about gay-rights? Who knows, next year, they might start copying bollywood and start parading in the middle of a railway or on top of a skycraper.

It is pretty crazy yes. It is the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction, which happens all too often. But put it in a little perspective. They are not killing anybody on dubious grounds. They are just being silly.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Just wanted to note that it is pretty telling that when I called this bit of news insane (which it clearly is) the instant knee jerk response was to call things in the west insane as if that is somehow relevant. We should be capable of seeing both kinds of witch hunt for what they are. One does not make the other any less crazy or bad.

 

[جوري]

If it is justifiable from one end it is justifiable from the other.. It is a different kind of reasoning and understanding.
It doesn't make others insane.. makes the convictions different. half the world is insane to the other and unfortunately for atheists they can't distinguish the difference..

best,

 

[Salahudeen]

Saudi Arabia: Beheadings for ‘witchcraft’
Published: 19 April, 2012, 12:38
Edited: 19 April, 2012, 12:38



A Sri Lankan woman is currently facing decapitation by sword on a witchcraft charge in Saudi Arabia, in accordance with Wahhabism, a strict form of Sunni Islam.

Since when did the application of shariah become wahabism? :hmm: If I'm not mistaken, beheading the magicians was a commandment from the 2nd calipha of Islam. Were they upon wahabism at that time too :hmm:

It is narrated by Bukhari, on the authority of Bajalah Ibn `Ubadah, that he said: "`Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (ra) wrote: "Execute every sorceror and sorceress." "So, continued Bajalah," we executed three sorcerors."

And it is reported authentically from Hafsah (may Allah be pleased with her) that she ordered the execution of her slave for practising magic upon her, and she was executed. Such an event has also been reported from Jundub (ra). According to Imam Ahmad, execution of sorcerors is authentically reported from three Companions (i.e. `Umar, Hafsah and Jundub ra ).

 

[Pygoscelis]

If it is justifiable from one end it is justifiable from the other..

That is my point. It isn't justifiable on either end and tribal blindness doesn't change that. Such blindness is on both "sides" and it isn't pretty. I just visited a evangelical and conservative board and saw EXACTLY the same kind of post before I saw it here, just from the other direction.

 

[جوري]

That is my point. It isn't justifiable on either end and tribal blindness doesn't change that. Such blindness is on both "sides" and it isn't pretty. I just visited a evangelical and conservative board and saw EXACTLY the same kind of post before I saw it here, just from the other direction.

Actually you have no point since this is a judicial matter of which you know nothing. & I wish you'd actually admit that, rather than ensnaring everyone into an already faulty premise!

best,

 

[IslamicRevival]

Court sentences may be based on Sharia but on the grand scheme of things, are the Saudis really practicing Islamic Law in its entirety? I highly doubt it thus this incident should not be linked to Islam in any way, shape or form. They dont represent anyone but themselves

 

[MustafaMc]

If this is true then it has nothing to do with the Sri Lankan woman intending anybody harm or even doing anything whatsoever. It is an accusation made by a man with no stated basis beside seeing his daughter acting abnormally. And the police arrested her based on that? Sounds just like Salem.

I have an issue with the article for the reason you have stated. The last I knew, the accusation does not mean guilt unless you're a Musilm. Then you end up getting sent to Gitmo or on the receiving end of a drone or Navy Seal attack. I am concerned that others are so willing to take the life of another with little proof of guilt and due process of law.

lol I honestly did not know that people in today's day and age still actually believe in witchcraft. I thought that went out with the lucky rabbits foot and magic 8 ball.

Let's not forget that you do not believe in anything from the unseen world which is fundamental to Islam. You do not believe in God, angels, jinn, Satan, Hell, Heaven, etc whereas I as a Muslim do even though I have no way to prove their existence. Yes, I believe in the ability of people to deal in witchcraft, sorcery, fortunetelling, vodoo, the occult, Satan worship etc as an interaction with the jinn. This is forbidden in Islam and, if proven, then the punishment for it in the country where it is a crime will be carried out.

Going solely on the article, it says the victim began to act abnormal after she had gotten close to the perpetrator. So what we have is a vaguely described affect that by all accounts seems to have been blamed on a random person (sounds a lot like a witch hunt if I'm honest)

This also sounds quite flaky to me that a child acted strange and a woman's life hangs in the balance. I agree it sounds in a way like a mini-witch hunt like Salem, Massachussets had on a massive scale.

 

[Muhammad]

and Greetings,

As mentioned by a couple of others, it's important to separate two issues here: the existence of witchcraft and its being a major sin in Islam, and this particular story whose accuracy and consistency with Shariah Law are unknown from the little we know.

 

[MustafaMc]

and Greetings,

As mentioned by a couple of others, it's important to separate two issues here: the existence of witchcraft and its being a major sin in Islam,

I agree that it exists and that it is a major sin.

and this particular story whose accuracy and consistency with Shariah Law are unknown from the little we know.

I also agree that little factual information is known. The Western media often twists events to suit their ends. Others may correct me if I misremembered, but seems like there was a show on TV about the 'oppression of women' in Afghanistan immediately before the attacks of 9/11. The show actually had video of a woman being executed for adultery. I remind everyone the quote by Benjamin Franklin, "Believe none of what you hear (or read in the media) and half of what you see."

 

[BlissfullyJaded]

^ The media also failed to show that there was a man being executed as well, not just a woman. I remember being bored, so was flipping through the TV stations and stopped at a Korean station cuz I saw Muslims, and then figured out there was more to the footage than we typically are shown.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Here is a similar story I found a link to at another forum discussing this same issue:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...hcraft-psychic

'...A Lebanese TV psychic condemned to death for witchcraft by a Saudi court while visiting the country will not be beheaded, his lawyer said today.

May al-Khansa said that the Saudi ambassador in Beirut informed the Lebanese justice minister that the execution of Ali Sibat would not take place.

"He confirmed to me that there will be no execution," al-Khansa said after her conversation with Ibrahim Najjar, Lebanon's justice minister. She refused to go into details but said "matters are going in the right direction".

"We have faith in Saudi Arabia's judicial system," she added, noting that Sibat's actions are not considered a crime in Lebanon.

Sibat is one of scores of people reportedly arrested every year in the Islamic kingdom on charges of practising sorcery, witchcraft, black magic and fortune-telling, which are considered to be polytheism by the ultra-conservative Saudi judiciary.

The father of five was arrested by religious police while making a pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca in May 2008 and was sentenced to death last November.

Sibat, 49, made predictions on a satellite TV channel from his home in Beirut, where psychics, fortunetellers and astrologers operate freely. Many have regular TV and radio shows. Some cafes even hire them to attract more customers. On 31 December, they jostle for air time to give their predictions for the new year.

According to his lawyer, Sibat was the most popular psychic on his channel, especially among callers from the conservative Gulf.

After Mecca, Sibat went to Medina to pray at the Mosque of the Prophet. At his hotel, members of the religious police who enforce the kingdom's strict Islamic lifestyle spotted him and grabbed him.

Earlier this week, a Saudi judicial official said the country's highest appellate court had upheld the death sentence and asked the nation's supreme judicial council to set a date for the execution.

Saudi newspapers have reported that the court of cassation had first rejected the case and asked the lower tribunal to offer Sibat a chance to repent. It was not clear if he was given that chance.

 

[LauraS]

I'm surprised not to see more compassion for this woman, instead the thread has to turn argumentative. I know there are those that say in Islam witchcraft is prohibited and we have no idea what went on in the trial, but in your heart of hearts to you truly believe this old woman is guilty of witchcraft? Just because a 13 year old girl started acting strangely, what proof is this that it is witchcraft? And yes I think this can be compared to Salem, because then it was a 14 year old girl pretending to have fits and causing mass hysteria. We think of all the witch hunts that took place centuries ago and feel sympathy for those accused because we know they weren't guilty, they have had a wart or glanced at someone who then fell ill the next day. Sounds similar to this, what power does an old lady have that she walks next to a girl and makes her ill?

 

[جوري]

How about you go to KSA interview all parties including the defendant and tell us how it is?.. third party information is much like third party compassion lacks a certain believability.

best,

 

[LauraS]

All anyone needs for this case is common sense. I think some on here know this woman does not possess any such power or inclination to "cast a spell" over a girl who simply walked near her, but because admitting it would mean criticising a Muslim court you won't say your true feelings. If this was a case of non-Muslims however...do you believe all those people executed years ago in Europe were truly witches?