Berlin Will Reinstate Opera Depicting Prophet Muhammad

[MTAFFI]

Inshallah,the Imams will go and tell them it is wrong,but will they listen?
No..
And when we react to tehir disrespect,we are the ones whom are at fault.

IF YOU REACT IN VIOLENCE THEN YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN BE AT FAULT. NO VIOLENT REACTIONS CAME FROM THE JEWS WHEN THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM WAS OPENED

 

[duskiness]

This article just about sums up my feelings on this matter (BEWARE, contains one use of strong language, when quoting Theo Van Gough)

Salam Muezzin!
That was a good aricle. I aslo agree with it. And that bring some hope for me (or us)...
n.

 

[MTAFFI]

Salaam,

Great article but it all sums up the western condescension to be sensitive towards muslim feelings.

They are doing for all teh wrong reason and cannot or will understand the menaing of respect.

Why simple...

casue they do not see muslim or Islam as equal to their lifestyle.

Condesending and belligerent,they assume that they have the right to respect or disrect us as they see fit.
they choose not to see us as equals but as uncivillized brutes who have no respect for their OPEN AND UNRESRAINED CIVILIZATION..

My question to them is,how opena dn urbane a civilization are you if you need to isnult and degrade another to learn or be enlightened?

Inshallah,i see this will go to the way of the caricatures,the german muslim will say STOP,they will be ignored and ridiculed and violence will ensues.

It cant be help,the western world do wish to talk but only on their terms and with their end being the result.

So how do wes top the cycle?
It can only be stopped by teaching them respect,for our religona dn for their own.
they are able to mock their reliogn,go ahead,for they already see little worth in it,and they assume reliogn is the casue of the world misery,,,YES THEIR RELIGON IS THE CASUE OF THE WORLD MISERY,and they want to see that all religon are the same....

people like you cause misery, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean you can kill someone or think that the "end" of western society will be the result. Your type is miserable and untolerable, you dont like the play dont go see it

 

[MTAFFI]

Salaam,

And here lies the question of what import of reliogn to the other two.
Buddhist and Chrisitans?

Do they care for those that they claim to be divine?Or do they accept that mocekery and disrespect should a public.

Thus for them they have evolved casue they see the pointlessness of their own reliogn ,we muslim abide by it.

it isnt that we dont care for those who are devine, if God feels this is wrong he will judge those involved in the end, it isnt for any man to do anything about, all the rest of the Christians can do is respect themselves and God and do the best in their own life. It is your religion that is pointless, pointless death and murder of other lives. I am sure Allah looks real fondly on that

 

[Woodrow]

Freedom of Speech to person A is equal to profanity to Person B

The whole perspective depends on if you are person A or Person B

Personal choice is if I am Person B I would not want to allow Person A to speak. But, if I am Person A I personaly would not want Person B to speak.

So, right or wrong Person C steps in and demands that we both be allowed to speak.

So until the whole world is perfect we will all have to listen to the idiotic rhetoric of those who do not see the world as we do.

Life would be so much easier if we were all born with all knowledge and pure wisdom. Until that happens, we are not going to agree with everybody.

But, we do have the right and the ability to not look at what offends us. We do have the right to publicaly state why we are offended.


This are just general thoughts and can be applied to each of us be we Muslim, Christian, Jew, Athiest or any other choice.

 

[Keltoi]

I think the person that mentioned this is all an example of Muslims coming into contact with the norms of Western society was spot on. People are free to say pretty much whatever they choose and express their opinions and beliefs in almost any way they choose. To many immigrants into Western society, each statement they find insulting or blasphemous is an "attack" on them. It will take time for some people to fully understand and accept the notion of free-speech. If they cannot accept this freedom of speech, then perhaps they might be more comfortable somewhere else.

 

[rania2820]

this is not shocking news at all.geramany is known for offending all religions. but the problem there is that most of the Muslims in germany will not say anything about this.they will say its their freedom of speech to depict our prophet(pbuh).freedom of speech shouldn't mean its ok to offend other people and their faith.

may allah guide this ummah!

 

[Keltoi]

this is not shocking news at all.geramany is known for offending all religions. but the problem there is that most of the Muslims in germany will not say anything about this.they will say its their freedom of speech to depict our prophet(pbuh).freedom of speech shouldn't mean its ok to offend other people and their faith.

may allah guide this ummah!

That is just it...in a secular society with free-speech rights it is "ok". That doesn't mean you can't lobby for change or show your opposition to such things. However, once you cross the line to violence or threat of violence, you have stepped over the line. I understand Muslim anger about this, but I don't expect the system or my rights to be altered because of the threat of violence. I know most Muslims don't want that either.

 

[wilberhum]

the problem there is that most of the Muslims in germany will not say anything about this.they will say its their freedom of speech to depict our prophet(pbuh).

Then they would have it correct. It is freedom of speach.

freedom of speech shouldn't mean its ok to offend other people and their faith.

It doesn't mean that it is OK, it means that it is not illegal.
There is a vast difference between OK and Illegal.

 

[Woodrow]

Very good point.

It doesn't mean that it is OK, it means that it is not illegal.
There is a vast difference between OK and Illegal.

Legality issues simply refer to controls issued by the government. The violation of which can result in fines and or imprisoment. They have little to do with an individuals moral concepts or religious beliefs. They are not engraved in stone and can be changed if the majority of the population wants them changed.

the secret is the changes have to be made in peacefull manners and usually do not take place instantly. Those of us living today will make the tomorrow our grandchildren will live in.

 

[north_malaysian]

The production's final scene shows a blood-spattered King Idomeneo carrying the severed heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha, and Muhammad..

How about heads of Abraham, David, Moses, Krishna, Mahavira, Confucius, Bahaullah, Guru Nanak?

 

[Zulkiflim]

It is natural as violance. Does violance come naturaly to you?

Salaam,

Violence comes easily to any man,for wiht our hand we can create or destroy.

But as the Porpeht say guard your tongue for it casues more harm than the hand.,

May i ask you,are you predisposed to hate muslim,to practice disrespect for other?

I guess for the west it is a natural thing to hate and disrespect for as the artcile and the caricatures show,only thru DISRECEPT AND INTETIONAL HURT DO THE WEST LEARN.

 

[Zulkiflim]

IF YOU REACT IN VIOLENCE THEN YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN BE AT FAULT. NO VIOLENT REACTIONS CAME FROM THE JEWS WHEN THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM WAS OPENED

Salaam,

wait did the Holocaust musuem shown to the world to mock or highlight the Jews pain thru the Holocasut.

the Museuem to create sypathy,not mock.

But this play with it ADDITION of severing the Prophet head is an addition.

All i can say to you is the same i ask of any westerner.
In the guise of free speech,you seek to learn.
Do you and your culture grow and get enlightened thru the miserly of another.

If you do then surely child that dies in Irana dn Iran must have sent you to nirvana

How much must you insult other for you to feel insulted?
How much must you disrespect other to LEARN NEW THING?

 

[Zulkiflim]

people like you cause misery, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean you can kill someone or think that the "end" of western society will be the result. Your type is miserable and untolerable, you dont like the play dont go see it

Salaam,

I see,my type..May i ask what is your type?

The type that mock other and then laught and say they are barbaric?


I guess you want other to feel misery for you to feel good,is that right?

And when did i say it is ok to kill other just becasue we dont agree wiht it?

We react to your disrecpect for it is obvious that the only way the west learn is not thru diaolgue but thru aggresiveness.

I point to you the caricatures story,the Prime Minister igored Dane musoima dn 11 ambassodor,and when the matter is blown up,he balmes muslim when he could have solved it by simply talking to the ambassodors and Danes muslims..

 

[Zulkiflim]

it isnt that we dont care for those who are devine, if God feels this is wrong he will judge those involved in the end, it isnt for any man to do anything about, all the rest of the Christians can do is respect themselves and God and do the best in their own life. It is your religion that is pointless, pointless death and murder of other lives. I am sure Allah looks real fondly on that

Salaam,

A simple question,when you meet your "god" and your god ask you..

What did you do when you see people mocking me in the streets?
What did you say to them?
Did you do speak to them?
Did you try to say it displeases you?
Did you even try to raise your hand?

and your response would be..

it isnt that we dont care for those who are devine, if God feels this is wrong he will judge those involved in the end, it isnt for any man to do anything about

Now let put it in another way..

Suppose you see a dying child in the street..
and god ask you,and your response would be..
Did you try to help the child
Did you try to call for aid?
Di you do anything

it isnt that we dont care for those who are devine, if God feels this is wrong he will judge those involved in the end, it isnt for any man to do anything about

your faith has gone thru many tribulation and it has gone thru many revison,in the past chrisitna were told to defend their faith,rememebr the Crusades,,those were the best chrisitan in that current revision.

Now is has chaged to suit the ever desire of the church to appeal to amnkind to get more worshipper,i am very sure that as surely as the anglican church has accepted gaya dn lesbain as preist or bishop,,,it will also happen to the catholic church..

PS,check the story about Christian limbo,it seem that maybe limbo will be removed and all babies who died,will be going to hell...which is not liked by many,,so i guess they wont remove it,tho it is not official doctorine

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Yea unlimited freedom of speech is so great thats why the world is where it is now.(Definitely not good)
Gimme a break.

 

[MTAFFI]

Salaam,

A simple question,when you meet your "god" and your god ask you..

What did you do when you see people mocking me in the streets?
What did you say to them?
Did you do speak to them?
Did you try to say it displeases you?
Did you even try to raise your hand?

and your response would be..



Now let put it in another way..

Suppose you see a dying child in the street..
and god ask you,and your response would be..
Did you try to help the child
Did you try to call for aid?
Di you do anything







your faith has gone thru many tribulation and it has gone thru many revison,in the past chrisitna were told to defend their faith,rememebr the Crusades,,those were the best chrisitan in that current revision.

Now is has chaged to suit the ever desire of the church to appeal to amnkind to get more worshipper,i am very sure that as surely as the anglican church has accepted gaya dn lesbain as preist or bishop,,,it will also happen to the catholic church..

PS,check the story about Christian limbo,it seem that maybe limbo will be removed and all babies who died,will be going to hell...which is not liked by many,,so i guess they wont remove it,tho it is not official doctorine

when i die and go to heaven god will not ask me these things i will say i reacted peacefully and never turned my back on you. I will say that I did not judge and only felt pity for them because of their ignorance. I will say please judge me on the way I lived my life and not the way others lived theirs.

The question is what will you say to these questions?

Did you blow yourself up in front of them?
Did you curse them?
Did you tell them it displeased you?
Did you raise a hand to them?

Probably all of the above, huh?


also let me make this simple for you, if i saw a baby dying on the street i would pick it up and take it for help. If I saw a man on the street cursing my God i would pray for his soul

 

[Dawud_uk]

I think the person that mentioned this is all an example of Muslims coming into contact with the norms of Western society was spot on. People are free to say pretty much whatever they choose and express their opinions and beliefs in almost any way they choose. To many immigrants into Western society, each statement they find insulting or blasphemous is an "attack" on them. It will take time for some people to fully understand and accept the notion of free-speech. If they cannot accept this freedom of speech, then perhaps they might be more comfortable somewhere else.

that is rubbish, there are many things i could not say, for example Sheikh Ali Timimi was given over 100 years in jail for 'inciting the killing of american citizens overseas' in other words he made du'a (suplication to Allah) for the success of the taliban.

 

[Dawud_uk]

please see below, we shouldnt speak from ignorance but look to what the scholars teach us from the Quran and sunnah.

Ruling on one who insults the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)

I heard on a tape that whoever insults the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) should be executed even if he shows that he has repented. Should he be killed as a hadd punishment or because of kufr? If his repentance is sincere, will Allaah forgive him or will he go to Hell and his repentance will be of no avail?

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

The answer to this question may be given by addressing the two following issues:

1 – The ruling on one who insults the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)
The scholars are unanimously agreed that a Muslim who insults the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) becomes a kaafir and an apostate who is to be executed. This consensus was narrated by more than one of the scholars, such as Imaam Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh, Ibn al-Mundhir, al-Qaadi ‘Iyaad, al-Khattaabi and others. Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 2/13-16

This ruling is indicated by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.

In the Qur’aan it says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The hypocrites fear lest a Soorah (chapter of the Qur’aan) should be revealed about them, showing them what is in their hearts. Say: ‘(Go ahead and) mock! But certainly Allaah will bring to light all that you fear.’

If you ask them (about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly and joking.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allaah, and His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger that you were mocking?’

Make no excuse; you disbelieved after you had believed”
[al-Tawbah 9:64-66]

This verse clearly states that mocking Allaah, His verses and His Messenger constitutes kufr, so that applies even more so to insulting. The verse also indicates that whoever belittles the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is also a kaafir, whether he was serious or joking.

With regard to the Sunnah, Abu Dawood (4362) narrated from ‘Ali that a Jewish woman used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and say bad things about him, so a man strangled her until she died, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ruled that no blood money was due in this case.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Saarim al-Maslool (1/162): This hadeeth is jayyid, and there is a corroborating report in the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Abbaas which we will quote below.

This hadeeth clearly indicates that it was permissible to kill that woman because she used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Abu Dawood (4361) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that a blind man had a freed concubine (umm walad) who used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and say bad things about him. He told her not to do that but she did not stop, and he rebuked her but she did not heed him. One night, when she started to say bad things about the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and insult him, he took a short sword or dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it and killed her. The following morning that was mentioned to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He called the people together and said, “I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right over him that he should stand up.” The blind man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I am the one who did it; she used to insult you and say bad things about you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not give up her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was kind to me. Last night she began to insult you and say bad things about you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Bear witness, there is no blood money due for her.”
(Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 3655)

It seems that this woman was a kaafir, not a Muslim, for a Muslim could never do such an evil action. If she was a Muslim she would have become an apostate by this action, in which case it would not have been permissible for her master to keep her; in that case it would not have been good enough if he were to keep her and simply rebuke her.

Al-Nasaa’i narrated (4071) that Abu Barzah al-Aslami said: A man spoke harshly to Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq and I said, ‘Shall I kill him?’ He rebuked me and said, ‘That is not for anyone after the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) .’” (Saheeh al-Nasaa’i, 3795)

It may be noted from this that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had the right to kill whoever insulted him and spoke harshly to him, and that included both Muslims and kaafirs.

The second issue is: if a person who insulted the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) repents, should his repentance be accepted or not?

The scholars are agreed that if such a person repents sincerely and regrets what he has done, this repentance will benefit him on the Day of Resurrection and Allaah will forgive him.

But they differed as to whether his repentance should be accepted in this world and whether that means he is no longer subject to the sentence of execution.

Maalik and Ahmad were of the view that it should not be accepted, and that he should be killed even if he has repented.

They quoted as evidence the Sunnah and proper understanding of the ahaadeeth:

In the Sunnah, Abu Dawood (2683) narrated that Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqaas said: “On the Day of the Conquest of Makkah, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) granted safety to the people except for four men and two women, and he named them, and Ibn Abi Sarh… As for Ibn Abi Sarh, he hid with ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan, and when the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) called the people to give their allegiance to him, he brought him to stand before the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He said, “O Prophet of Allaah, accept the allegiance of ‘Abd-Allaah.” He raised his head and looked at him three times, refusing him, then he accepted his allegiance after the third time. Then he turned to his companions and said: “Was there not among you any smart man who could have got up and killed this person when he saw me refusing to give him my hand and accept his allegiance?” They said, “We do not know what is in your heart, O Messenger of Allaah. Why did you not gesture to us with your eyes?” He said, “It is not befitting for a Prophet to betray a person with a gesture of his eyes.”
(Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 2334)

This clearly indicates that in a case such as this apostate who had insulted the Prophet (S), it is not obligatory to accept his repentance, rather it is permissible to kill him even if he comes repentant.
‘Abd-Allaah ibn Sa’d was one of those who used to write down the Revelation, then he apostatized and claimed that he used to add whatever he wanted to the Revelation. This was a lie and a fabrication against the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and it was a kind of insult. Then he became Muslim again and was a good Muslim, may Allaah be pleased with him. Al-Saarim 115.

With regard to proper understanding of the ahaadeeth:

They said that insulting the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has to do with two rights, the right of Allaah and the right of a human being. With regard to the right of Allaah, this is obvious, because it is casting aspersions upon His Message, His Book and His Religion. As for the right of a human being, this is also obvious, because it is like trying to slander the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) by this insult. In a case which involves both the rights of Allaah and the rights of a human being, the rights of the human beings are not dropped when the person repents, as in the case of the punishment for banditry, because if the bandit has killed someone, that means that he must be executed and crucified. But if he repents before he is caught, then the right of Allaah over him, that he should be executed and crucified, no longer applies, but the rights of other humans with regard to qisaas (retaliatory punishment) still stand. The same applies in this case. If the one who insulted the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) repents, then the rights of Allaah no longer apply, but there remains the right of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which still stand despite his repentance.

If it is said, “Can we not forgive him, because during his lifetime the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forgave many of those who had insulted him and he did not execute them?”

The answer is:

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sometimes chose to forgive those who had insulted him, and sometimes he ordered that they should be executed, if that served a greater purpose. But now his forgiveness is impossible because he is dead, so the execution of the one who insults him remains the right of Allaah, His Messenger and the believers, and the one who deserves to be executed cannot be let off, so the punishment must be carried out.

Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 2/438

Insulting the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is one of the worst of forbidden actions, and it constitutes kufr and apostasy from Islam, according to scholarly consensus, whether done seriously or in jest. The one who does that is to be executed even if he repents and whether he is a Muslim or a kaafir. If he repents sincerely and regrets what he has done, this repentance will benefit him on the Day of Resurrection and Allaah will forgive him.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) wrote a valuable book on this matter, entitled al-Saarim al-Maslool ‘ala Shaatim al-Rasool which every believer should read, especially in these times when a lot of hypocrites and heretics dare to insult the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) because they see that the Muslims are careless and feel little protective jealousy towards their religion and their Prophet, and they do not implement the shar’i punishment which would deter these people and their ilk from committing this act of blatant kufr.

And Allaah knows best. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and all his family and companions.

Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

 

[Muezzin]

it isnt that we dont care for those who are devine, if God feels this is wrong he will judge those involved in the end, it isnt for any man to do anything about, all the rest of the Christians can do is respect themselves and God and do the best in their own life. It is your religion that is pointless, pointless death and murder of other lives. I am sure Allah looks real fondly on that

Please clarify that statement.