Both sides suffer .. who is the victim?

[noodles]

You would be hard pressed to find many agnostics that would agree with that.
You would be hard pressed to find any atheists that would agree with that.

Oh I for forgot, no god, no morals.

You should note that nowhere did I accuse you of having no morals. Instead, I was proving to you that your criteria for defining something or someone as evil is very much flawed, that is all.

Like I said, we all have our differances, and some choose to voice them out politely while others harshly.

 

[Amadeus85]

. Therefore if any group goes against what God and His Messenger say - then we condemn them acts.

"We" you mean You and other moderaters in IslamicBoard?
And what with the rest of 1 billion muslims? Dont they read Quaran?
And why you say - "if" any of this group acts against Quaran, while you know perfectly what these groups do?

 

[- Qatada -]

"We" you mean You and other moderaters in IslamicBoard?
And what with the rest of 1 billion muslims? Dont they read Quaran?
And why you say - "if" any of this group acts against Quaran, while you know perfectly what these groups do?

Aaron, tell me - have you ever seen TV. Have you seen who the US, UK is fighting? They're fighting muslims right? Now do you think that someone who is a supposed 'enemy' to a certain country - do you think they're going to clear the misconceptions by saying that Muslims condemn them acts, or do you think they want people to fear the enemy so the people of that nation support the cause for the war?


Isn't it logical that if someone does an action which goes against your religious texts you condemn it? What else do you do, do you promote it?

 

[Amadeus85]

It depends on who you define as a terrorist, and it depends on who you call a 'freedom fighter.' You may feel that it's the muslims who are the terrorists, fighting for their land, but how can i say that the Jews [who have them verses which we quoted earlier] aren't terrorists when their own religious texts encourage them acts?

Do you think if a religious text allowed you to do something, you would disagree with it? Or would you think that your religious text is truth, acceptable in the sight of God - so you will go ahead with it? Now if these people have texts which allow the killing of women, children ruthlessly, then should i really say that these are peaceful people?


Yes you may say that the actions of the Palestinian Muslims are un-Islamic if they harm innocents, but atleast they may feel guilty for going against the commandments of their religious texts. Whereas the Jews will feel proud for killing innocents since it's encouraged in their texts, and they may feel that they are pleasing God Almighty for the evil acts that they do.


I hope you understand what i mean.

Finally i have understood what you mean.

 

[- Qatada -]

OK, cool lol


Anyway it's been nice chatting with you.



Peace.

 

[Amadeus85]

OK, cool lol


Anyway it's been nice chatting with you.



Peace.

Nice chatting always happens when two inteligent guys meet

Shalom

 

[Zman]

And how many muslims support Hamas, Hesbullah, Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Brigades? Those groups actually kill innocents.

The IDF has killed much more innocents, than those groups combined.

Let me ask you this, and please be honest. If the above groups killed Israeli soldiers in their operations, would you still consider that as being a "terrorist" operation or purely a military operation?

 

[Amadeus85]

. If the above groups killed Israeli soldiers in their operations, would you still consider that as being a "terrorist" operation or purely a military operation?

Then they would be a military operation. If they fight with israeli army only it is understood and normal.
But when those groups send a Palestinian boy or a gril with pounds of explosives materials on them and tell them to blow up themselves in a bus full of innocent people, then i call those groups bunch of cowards and beasts.

Clear and simple. Shalom.

 

[Zman]

Then they would be a military operation. If they fight with israeli army only it is understood and normal.

Good. Then, we're both on the same page here.

Because, some people still claim that is also terrorism.

But when those groups send a Palestinian boy or a gril with pounds of explosives materials on them and tell them to blow up themselves in a bus full of innocent people, then i call those groups bunch of cowards and beasts.

And what is your view on a settler(s) who deliberately seeks out a Palestinian civilian, and executes him/her, Just because they are Palestinian. Is that settler(s) also a terrorist?

Or the IDF which deliberately targets civilians (with no "militants/combatants" around, like the incident on the Gaza Beach), or firing into a neighborhood which kills tens of innocent civilians Just to take out passengers in a car, or a building that ends up not containing any "terrorists?"

The IDF/Shin Bet has a successful history of sending in commando units to abduct wanted "terrorists," in hostile territory. That would seem a far more appropriate method...

 

[Amadeus85]

And what is your view on a settler(s) who deliberately seeks out a Palestinian civilian, and executes him/her, Just because they are Palestinian. Is that settler(s) also a terrorist?

Terrorist.

Or the IDF which deliberately targets civilians (with no "militants/combatants" around, like the incident on the Gaza Beach), or firing into a neighborhood which kills tens of innocent civilians Just to take out passengers in a car, or a building that ends up not containing any "terrorists?"

If they do it on purpose, my opinion is- terroristss.

Now it is your turn- Are Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Brigades terrorists for you?

 

[mariam.]

why are we playing "who's the biggest victim" games here?
war is hell. real people suffer and die. children cry and scream, blood is shed.

actually, you are right .. both sides suffer and die .. but, briefly Isreal is the responsible.

those believers in the two sides are victims .. In a world stained with injustice, tragedies and woes which stem from the hostility of man against man, being fueled by the selfish interests of narrow-minded opportunists by inflaming emotions and provoking passions through exploiting the inherent power of religion, which is in essence a divine system that promotes man, maintains his life and guarantees his rights; the significance of awareness and insightful comprehension rises as a fort that safeguards against falling into the mires of the lesion of seeing the ugly beautiful.

let's diagnose for a disease that worsens by ignorance .. let's elucidate and a quest for remedy which is based on awareness and right understanding.

So that the Religion Does not Become a Game ..

 

[north_malaysian]

The next question I ask was “Where is there fighting to change the borders?”
I would only come up with two, Palestine and Kashmir.

Territorial disputes:

* Abrene - Russia vs. Latvia
* Abu Musa - Iran vs. UAE
* Aegean Sea/Islands Dispute - Turkey vs. Greece
* Agacher Strip - Burkina Faso vs. Mali
* Aksai Chin - India vs. China
* Ambalat - Malaysia vs. Indonesia
* Argentine Antarctica - UK vs. Argentina vs. Chile
* Arunachal Pradesh - India vs. China
* Atacama - Chile vs. Bolivia
* Badme - Eritrea vs. Ethiopia
* Bajo Nuevo Bank - USA vs. Colombia vs. Jamaica vs. Honduras
* Bakassi - Cameroon vs. Nigeria
* British Antarctic Territory - UK vs. Argentina vs. Chile
* British Indian Ocean Territory - UK vs. Mauritius vs. Seychelles
* Cerro Chalten - Argentina vs. Chile
* Chamizal - USA vs. Mexico
* East Jerusalem - Palestine vs. Israel
* Eastern Vilnius Region - Belarus vs. Lithuania
* Gibraltar - UK vs. Spain
* Golan Heights - Israel vs. Syria
* Gorno Badakhshan - Tajikistan vs. Taiwan
* Guayana Esequiba - Venezuela vs. Guyana
* Gulf of Piran - Croatia vs. Slovenia
* Hala'ib Triangle - Sudan vs. Egypt
* Heixiazi Island - China vs. Russia
* Ilemi Tringle - Ethiopia vs. Sudan vs. Kenya
* Kinmen - China vs. Taiwan
* Kuril Islands - Japan vs. Russia
* Leticia - Colombia vs. Peru
* Liancourt Rocks - Japan vs. South Korea
* Macclesfield Bank - China vs. Taiwan vs. Vietnam
* Matsu Islands - China vs. Taiwan
* Moresnet - Germany vs. Belgium vs. Holland
* Mount HErmon - Israel vs. Syria
* Navassa Island - USA vs. Haiti
* Ojinaga Cut - USA vs. Mexico
* Olivenza - Spain vs. Portugal
* Paracel Islands - China vs. Taiwan vs. Vietnam
* Pratas Islands - China vs. Taiwan
* Rio Grande - USA vs. Mexico
* Rio Rico - USA vs. Mexico
* Rosalind Bank - USA vs. Jamaica vs. Colombia vs. Nicaragua vs. Honduras
* Sabah - Malaysia vs. Philippines
* Sarych - Russia vs. Ukraine
* Senkaku Islands - Japan vs. China vs. Taiwan
* Serranilla Bank - USA vs. Colombia vs. Honduras
* Shebaa Farm - Israel vs. Lebanon
* Siachen Glacier - India vs. Pakistan
* Snake Island - Ukraine vs. Romania
* Socotra Rock - China vs. South Korea
* Swains Island - USA vs. Tokelau
* Tibet - China vs. Taiwan vs. Tibet (in exile)
* Tuzla Island - Russia vs. Ukraine
* Wake Island - USA vs. Marshall Islands
* Western Vilnius Region - Poland vs. Lithuania
* Zhenbao Island - China vs. Russia

Source: Wikipedia

 

[Zman]

Terrorist.

If they do it on purpose, my opinion is- terroristss.

Now it is your turn- Are Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Brigades terrorists for you?

Sorry for the late reply, Aaron.

As for Hamas, I think they are truly a resistance movement. Plus, they are officially and legally part of the government. Therefore, it is their duty to protect the Palestinian people and their government. And they're more legitimate now.

Therefore, I wouldn't classify them as a real terrorist organization, but if they target civilians, then they're using terror tactics.

Islamic Jihad, I would say use more terror tactics. Again, if they only attack israeli military targets and occupation troops, then they aren't using terror tactics.

As for AQ Martyrs Brigade, I don' why they're around. The'ye part of the PLO, and they've Just been utterly corrupt (in my opinion).

Again, if they only attack occupation troops and targets, that's not terrorism.

Most imporatantly, it's how the Palestinians and Arabs in general see them. The Western view (governments and some populations) will always be more biased and sides with Israel and condones its actions.

For the Easterners, they have a more balanced and realistic view...

 

[wilberhum]

One thing that always perplexes me is the concept that “resistance movement” and “Terrorist Group” are mutually exclusive.

To me it is obvious that some resistance movements use terror tactics.

 

[lilah]

Hey hey, i didnt say that Jews should kill and persecute Palestinians.I want those two suffering nations to live in peace and tolerance.But do you want the same? Do you know that Hamas' aims is to clean Israel with all Jews? You keep saying that it is your land. But are you ready to share this Land with Jews? Or you also wanna send them to Europe like many muslims say. In fact Jews always lived in Israel, and Arabs dont have more rights to this Land than Jews.Are you ready for a compromise? Or you prefer fighting till the last drop of Jewish and Arabic blood? I have to say it clearly, i really understand the suffering of palestinians, but without suicide attacks there would be no agrresive responses of Israeli Army.
We must say at the end the conclusion. Arabs will never destroy Israel( they tried so many times and failed) and Israel wont kill all Palestinians. We must all deal with this. The only question is, do you want peace so much to get on compromise and let Israel exist or not.

Regards.

jews muslims and christians lived in peace for centuries prior to the formation of the *illegal* state of isreal

 

[wilberhum]

jews muslims and christians lived in peace for centuries prior to the formation of the *illegal* state of isreal

So we should never have peace again?
I just participated in this poll on Al Jazeera:

Will Israel and the Palestinians ever forge a lasting peace? :skeleton:
Yes : 31.4 %
No : 51.0 %
I don't know : 17.5 %
Number of pollers:2071

 

[Zman]

One thing that always perplexes me is the
To me it is obvious that some resistance movements use terror tactics.

So do national military units.

Terrorism is a military tactic...

 

[wilberhum]

So do national military units.

Terrorism is a military tactic...

Terrorism is a tactic. :skeleton:
The military can use it, a country can use it, a group can use it, and an individual can use it. :?

 

[Fishman]

There is a simple answer to who the victim is: civilians.

 

[BanGuLLy]

Imagine if that was your mom...

:raging: :raging: :raging: :raging: