Briton faces lashes in Sudan over teddy named Mohammed

[wilberhum]

But Sudan is not an Islamic state.

 

[- Qatada -]

But Sudan is not an Islamic state.

Then don't blame Islam, simple as.

 

[Trumble]

"It is part of the campaign of the so-called war against terrorism and the intense media campaign against Islam," they said.

The huge irony, of course, is that their own position does far more to weaken Islam, at least in the eyes of non-muslims, than any "intense media campaign" ever could. In relation to this particular incident it also shows a degree of paranoia and, frankly, idiocy that is simply breathtaking. I only hope the Sudanese people don't take the views of these people seriously on anything, least of all religion.

 

[wilberhum]

Then don't blame Islam, simple as.

I don't blame Islam, I blame Muslims.

 

[Gator]

Then don't blame Islam, simple as.

Just to clarify, I have not and don't blame the entirety of Islam for this. I'm just interested in the story to see why what is happening is happening and why it doesn't follow islam.

One thing I've learned on this board is the very different interpretations of Islam and I think the reactions from this board are informative in their actual references to Islamic texts (yours specifically was good) and show how Islam can be followed by in a good way rather than what I would consider misguided by social influences or overly conservative (re the clerics in Sudan).

Thanks.

 

[MTAFFI]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071128/ap_on_re_af/sudan_british_teacher

Briton charged in religious hatred case
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 27 minutes ago


KHARTOUM, Sudan - Sudan charged a British teacher Wednesday with inciting religious hatred after she allowed her students to name a teddy bear Muhammad, an offense that could subject her to 40 lashes, the Justice Ministry said.

The charge against Gillian Gibbons was sure to heighten tensions between Sudan and Britain. In London, Foreign Secretary David Miliband urgently summoned the Sudanese ambassador to discuss the case, the British government said.

Gibbons, 54, was arrested Sunday after some of her pupils' parents complained, accusing her of naming the bear after Islam's prophet. Muhammad is a common name among Muslim men, but giving the prophet's name to an animal would be seen as insulting by many Muslims.

Prosecutor General Salah Eddin Abu Zaid said Gibbons was charged under article 125 of the Sudanese legal code and her case would be referred to court Thursday.

If convicted, she faces up to 40 lashes, six months and prison and a fine, said Abdul Daem Zumrawi, the Justice Ministry's undersecretary.

"What will be applied is (at) the discretionary power of the judge to issue the verdict," he was quoted as saying by the official Sudanese News Agency.

The meeting between Miliband and Ambassador Omer Mohammed Ahmed Siddig would take place as soon as possible, according to the British Foreign Office.

"We are surprised and disappointed by this development and the Foreign Secretary will summon as a matter of urgency the Sudanese ambassador to discuss the matter further," said Michael Ellam, a spokesman for Prime Minister Gordon Brown's office.

Miliband would ask the "for the rationale behind the charges and a sense of what the next steps might be" amid an escalating diplomatic dispute in the case, he said.

"We will consider our response in the light of that," Ellam said.

The Gibbons family declined to speak with The Associated Press, saying the British government had advised them not to comment to the media.

In Khartoum, the British Embassy said diplomats had been allowed to visit Gibbons on Wednesday. "She said she was being well-treated and that she was OK," said embassy spokesman Omar Daair.

Gibbons was teaching her pupils, who are around age 7, about animals and asked one of them to bring in her teddy bear, said Robert Boulos, a spokesman for Unity High School in Khartoum. She asked the students to pick names for it and they proposed Abdullah, Hassan and Muhammad, and in September, the pupils voted to name it Muhammad, he said.

Each child was allowed to take the bear home on weekends and write a diary about what they did with it. The diary entries were collected in a book with the bear's picture on the cover, labeled, "My Name is Muhammad," he said. The bear itself was never labeled with the name, he added.

The Unity High School, a private English-language school with elementary to high school levels, was founded by Christian groups, but 90 percent of its students are Muslim, mostly from upper-class Sudanese families.

Several Sudanese newspapers ran a statement Tuesday reportedly from the school, saying the administration "offers an official apology to the students and their families and all Muslims for what came from an individual initiative." It said Gibbons had been "removed from her work at the school."

The Sudanese Foreign Ministry on Tuesday played down the significance of the case, calling it "isolated despite our condemnation and rejection of it."

Ministry spokesman Ali al-Sadeq said it was an incidence of a "teacher's misconduct against the Islamic faith" but noted the school's apology.

The statement from the school in newspapers called it a "misunderstanding." It underlined the school's "deep respect for the heavenly religions" and for the "beliefs of Muslims and their rituals."

Although Khartoum officials played down the case and said it was an isolated incident, Sudan's top clerics said in a statement Wednesday that the full measure of the law should be applied against Gibbons, calling the incident part of a broader Western "plot" against Islam.

Northern Sudan's legal system is based on Islam's Sharia law, which harshly punishes blasphemy. Any depiction of the prophet is forbidden in Islam, for fear it would provoke idolatry. Caricatures of Muhammad in some European media last year sparked riots in several Muslim countries.

The Sudanese clerics said this was blasphemy and believed it was intentional.

"What has happened was not haphazard or carried out of ignorance, but rather a calculated action and another ring in the circles of plotting against Islam," the Sudanese Assembly of the Ulemas said the statement.

"It is part of the campaign of the so-called war against terrorism and the intense media campaign against Islam," they said.

Although an earlier report had suggested that only one parent had complained, the clergy statement Wednesday said that several had complained.

There were widespread calls in Britain for Gibbons' release. The Muslim Council of Britain urged the Sudanese government to intervene.

___

 

[wilberhum]

Sudan's top clerics said in a statement Wednesday that the full measure of the law should be applied against Gibbons, calling the incident part of a broader Western "plot" against Islam.

At least to me, It is clear who is

inciting religious hatred

 

[Joe98]

The whole issue is taken out of proportion totally, and i'm sure its to give a bad message of Islam. And Allah knows best.

And you still think Allah exists?

-

 

[Cognescenti]

About the non muslim in an Islamic state;

Sahih Bukhary:

Volumn 009, Book 083, Hadith Number 049.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By 'Abdullah bin 'Amr : The Prophet said,

"Whoever killed a Mu'ahid (a person who is granted the pledge of protection by the Muslims) shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise though its fragrance can be smelt at a distance of forty years (of traveling)."

And a Quote what is mentioned in Islamqa in one of the Fatwa:

"The non muslims who are protected by sharee’ah (laws of islam) are of three types:

1 – Al-dhimmi. This is one with whom we have a contract or treaty of al-dhimmah (i.e., one who lives in a Muslim state)

2 – Al-mu’aahad. This is one with whose people we have a peace treaty.

3– Al-musta’man. This is one who has entered the Muslim land and has been guaranteed safety, such as those who come to do business, to work, to visit relatives, and so on.".​

Nice reference, thank you. The third case would seem to apply here, though it is not really clear who is to give the "guarantee". Here is the problem I think many non-Muslims have. Those bringing the charges here claim to be operating under Sharia. You say they are not and you make a good case but, yet, the poor teacher really is in jail and the whole thing really does seem to be spinning out of control. Surely you can understand why a non-Muslim would be wary of subjecting himself to Sharia when the application of the rules seem to be somewhat arbitrary and there is no hierachical system to render binding decisions.

The rest of your statement is false.

]Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just

[Qur'an 60: 8].

That is an admirable notion but, it seems to me the charge of blasphemy is all about defaming Islam or "fighting for Faith"​

 

[snakelegs]

And you still think Allah exists?

-

why would a person base their belief in god on the acts of other human beings? if that was the measure, we'd probably all be atheists like you.

 

[nevesirth]

they want to crucify her for an innocent mistake, isee it as illiteracy, lack of common sense

 

[wilberhum]

they want to crucify her for an innocent mistake, isee it as illiteracy, lack of common sense

Remember that these are Sudan's top clerics.

 

[al-muslimah]

That is sad. She didn't even name it Muhammad, the children she taught did. And so what if ?? She didn't curse Islam or Muhamad(saw) did she?? If she had done so she would have already been executed.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Are Teddy bears not haraam? Is associating the Prophet with haraam stuff not haraam? If it is, how haraam is it? Is it haraam enough to lash the person?

 

[al-muslimah]

No teddy bears aren't haraam in the prphet's time kids use to play with rag dolla and etc and he didn't condemn them.Well if someone did an action or drew something which insults the Prophet , well in Islam then there is a death penalty for such an action.We can't draw our Prophet or and living thing but especially to insult him.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

No teddy bears aren't haraam in the prphet's time kids use to play with rag dolla and etc and he didn't condemn them.Well if someone did an action or drew something which insults the Prophet , well in Islam then there is a death penalty for such an action.We can't draw our Prophet or and living thing but especially to insult him.

Isn't it haraam to portray humans and animals?

 

[al-muslimah]

Yeah why??Its mean draw as in paint or portrait even statues aren't alllowed in Islam,its facial figures must be destroyed.As he , the prophet commanded Ali(ra) to do when he sent him on a mission.Do you want to know why??

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Yeah why??Its mean draw as in paint or portrait even statues aren't alllowed in Islam,its facial figures must be destroyed.As he , the prophet commanded Ali(ra) to do when he sent him on a mission.Do you want to know why??

Sure.

This one's got eyes, ears, a nose...is it not haraam?

 

[al-muslimah]

No its not. Its not drawn by a person is it? ok the reason why Its haram for us(Muslims) to draw in Islam is because our prophet told us that Whoever draws an animate object shall be told on the day of Judgement to bring it to life which they aren't able to do so then they will be punished, he also told us that the people who will be punished the worst will be those people.

 

[al-muslimah]

No its ok to have dolls and teddy's I use to love dolls when I was a kid and I had alot.