Brits kick out child cremators

[MTAFFI]

Unfortunately for you, these threads sink when you cannot counter the irrefutable argument that the United States has demonstrated restraint in it's use of force. You have no counter to the fact that the US has spent billions upon billions of dollars to develop LESS cost effective weapons for the sole purpose of reducing civilian casualties. You say nothing of the recognized capability of US strategic forces to reduce the Taliban to a burning pile of ash within hours with almost no reduction of our nation power, and the restraint from using such power demonstrated by our leaders.

You cannot reconcile the fact that you say we only go to war because we are "imperialist" when you know for a fact that we have only sent troops to Afghanistan in response to an attack on our soil in spite of the financial and political cost.

You cannot reconcile the fact that you argue we wish to murder and kill and intimidate Afghanis with the truth that you cannot conjure up a reason for such action, much less an explanation for precision munitions development, reduced use of particularly effective cluster, mine and incendiary munitions, and extremely tight Rules of Engagement for US forces in battle zones.

And when someone brings up these irreconcilable faults in your arguments, you deflect any real accounting by bringing up something entirely unrelated, try to make a statement accusing Americans broadly of killing indescriminately.

Reconcile these issues please or stop posting these nonsensical messages.

Answer now, how you can say that we WISH to have civilian casualties when we have spent many times the GDP of these nations we are invading on weapons that limit such casualties.

Answer please, why is it that you excuse the Taliban's wanton murder of men, women and schoolchildren (which is, in fact, calculated and indescriminate), yet you rattle on about how the "Great Satan" is to be vilified for attempting to bring peace and order to Afghanistan.

Or, if you feel too threatened, just make a statement about the Jews controlling the media or "ignorant redneck Americans worshipping Bush" and go back to your cliff's notes to the Communist Manifesto.

I find it truly amusing that no one has yet to be compelled to respond to this post

 

[S_87]

You didn't say Afghanistan have been heavily bombed did you?

Who typical, caught in a distortion, just change your story.

Why should anyone continue addressing your statements, you will surly just change them.

umm if you look at my first post on this thread i DID mention that.

resigned mr anti anything islamic. i see we meet again.

Unfortunately for you, these threads sink when you cannot counter the irrefutable argument that the United States has demonstrated restraint in it's use of force. You have no counter to the fact that the US has spent billions upon billions of dollars to develop LESS cost effective weapons for the sole purpose of reducing civilian casualties. You say nothing of the recognized capability of US strategic forces to reduce the Taliban to a burning pile of ash within hours with almost no reduction of our nation power, and the restraint from using such power demonstrated by our leaders.

and what difference does that make? one civilian casualty is one too many.

You cannot reconcile the fact that you say we only go to war because we are "imperialist" when you know for a fact that we have only sent troops to Afghanistan in response to an attack on our soil in spite of the financial and political cost.

yeh which is why the FBI have usama bin laden on their 10 most wanted...but NOT for 11th september...

You cannot reconcile the fact that you argue we wish to murder and kill and intimidate Afghanis with the truth that you cannot conjure up a reason for such action, much less an explanation for precision munitions development, reduced use of particularly effective cluster, mine and incendiary munitions, and extremely tight Rules of Engagement for US forces in battle zones.

umm whatever, you have murdered and killed and intimidated afghans and continue to indimidate who you call 'terrorists' (Gitmo) without any proof against them nor any access to the public to see the torture they are going through for merely making the mistake of being in afghanistan. and dont give us the crap that they are guilty because if they were then the evidence against them would be up on billboards. the soldiers who torture them in the name of freedom dont have a clue themselves why these people are there.
these soldiers dont have hearts.

And when someone brings up these irreconcilable faults in your arguments, you deflect any real accounting by bringing up something entirely unrelated, try to make a statement accusing Americans broadly of killing indescriminately.

accuse? or state facts?
i mean what is a taliban member? a man in afghanistan with a beard?

Reconcile these issues please or stop posting these nonsensical messages.

its you that has the habit of posting anti islamic crap my dear resigned

Answer now, how you can say that we WISH to have civilian casualties when we have spent many times the GDP of these nations we are invading on weapons that limit such casualties.

well maybe you should stop spending since it doesnt seem to be working anyway?

Answer please, why is it that you excuse the Taliban's wanton murder of men, women and schoolchildren (which is, in fact, calculated and indescriminate), yet you rattle on about how the "Great Satan" is to be vilified for attempting to bring peace and order to Afghanistan.

like i said, who are the taliban?
and i dont expect to hear a GOOD word regarding afghanistan because of the war. its called propaganda. the media has even acused the taliban of building poppy fields for drugs. and idiots believe it. idiots who had no knowledge that as a trying to establish shariah government that they were, the taliban declared war against the poppy growers

Or, if you feel too threatened, just make a statement about the Jews controlling the media or "ignorant redneck Americans worshipping Bush" and go back to your cliff's notes to the Communist Manifesto.

hey, you do believe everything the media says doncha. against islamists and muslims and taliban and saudi arabians and iranians, you know ur past posts elsewhere ;-)

 

[Cognescenti]

yeh which is why the FBI have usama bin laden on their 10 most wanted...but NOT for 11th september... *

*Page 57, CIA Invented OBL Manifesto.

That is painfully lame. The FBI is a law enforcement organization. They can only list an indictment which has been brought.

The conspiracy center of the brain is common to reptiles and even to dinosaurs. To the end many in the dinosaur community clung to the notion that the mammals were behind the asteroid. In a way you can't blame them, look how many of them stayed in their burrows that fateful day.

 

[MTAFFI]

and what difference does that make? one civilian casualty is one too many.

As is a favorite statement around here "What double standards"; on this post one is too many, if it is the Taliban or AQI doing the killing it is no big deal

yeh which is why the FBI have usama bin laden on their 10 most wanted...but NOT for 11th september...

Recent news as well as old has confirmed from OBL's mouth time and time again that he was responsible. I wish you could see what an ignoramous a statement like that makes you look like

umm whatever, you have murdered and killed and intimidated afghans and continue to indimidate who you call 'terrorists' (Gitmo) without any proof against them nor any access to the public to see the torture they are going through for merely making the mistake of being in afghanistan. and dont give us the crap that they are guilty because if they were then the evidence against them would be up on billboards. the soldiers who torture them in the name of freedom dont have a clue themselves why these people are there.
these soldiers dont have hearts.

This is actually very funny, since the next quote you took was :

"And when someone brings up these irreconcilable faults in your arguments, you deflect any real accounting by bringing up something entirely unrelated, try to make a statement accusing Americans broadly of killing indescriminately."

Which is exactly what you have done here. People in Gitmo are POW sorry about their luck, but they are held as prisoners. What about the Taliban holding those Koreans? Or burning children to death? At least we can say we dont do that.

accuse? or state facts?
i mean what is a taliban member? a man in afghanistan with a beard?

Yes, this is usually true, accompanied with a roadside bomb or an AK-47 and a village full of people scared for their life, then the perpetrators can probably be considered Taliban

its you that has the habit of posting anti islamic crap my dear resigned

What makes it anti islamic? What does that have to do with you answering with no sense?

well maybe you should stop spending since it doesnt seem to be working anyway?

yes perhaps we should use serious military force and actually kill indiscriminately as you accuse, it would cost much less money and kill much more effectively, however it is kind of sad how you would condemn all the other Muslims around the Taliban to death just to prove the point that the american military has shown extreme restraint since day 1

like i said, who are the taliban?
and i dont expect to hear a GOOD word regarding afghanistan because of the war. its called propaganda. the media has even acused the taliban of building poppy fields for drugs. and idiots believe it. idiots who had no knowledge that as a trying to establish shariah government that they were, the taliban declared war against the poppy growers

Poppy growing actually increased during the Talibans reign until 2000 and it only decreased then because of the worst drought to have hit Afghanistan in nearly a century. Notice how Taliban controlled regions are the highest opium producers in the world, what do you say about that? Seems you could be the one practicing idiocy... BY the way, you could say anything you hear is propoganda, I cant tell you how sick I am of hearing that word. Everything everyone tells you is propoganda, it is just which propoganda you choose to side with, it seems you side with the illogical and ignorant side.



Sorry for responding Resigned, I just couldnt help myself, I am sure you will make a much better meal out of this post than I did anyways

 

[barney]

One Civilian casualty is too many.

Great. Then condem the Market bombers...condem the Iraqi death squads.

Go on...
Ahh! You cant.
Weird eh?

 

[Rou]

:blind:

"The innocent only pay for the ignorance of the blind"

:laugh:


002.010
In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).

002.011
When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

​

002.012
Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
​

 

[Talha777]

I dont know if America is invading and killing Afghanis in order to make a pipeline or for natural resources. Muslims should understand who is behind these invasions of Muslim countries and forced imposition of western cultural values and immorality. Do you think Satan needs or wants oil? Muslims wake up and realize this is all out war against your RELIGION.

 

[wilberhum]

I dont know if America is invading and killing Afghanis in order to make a pipeline or for natural resources. Muslims should understand who is behind these invasions of Muslim countries and forced imposition of western cultural values and immorality. Do you think Satan needs or wants oil? Muslims wake up and realize this is all out war against your RELIGION.

Did you ever hear of OBL? :hmm:

Or do you just stick your head in the sand and blame it all on the Jewish controlled Media? :?

 

[Resigned]

Sorry for responding Resigned, I just couldnt help myself, I am sure you will make a much better meal out of this post than I did anyways

No problem at all MT. Yours was actually a nicely executed, clinical dissection of amani’s comments.

I did want to address your noted double standards as it applies to the killing of Afghani’s. Where the U.S. and coalition forces operate under rules of engagement that place our soldiers at risk with the explicit intention of protecting civilians, the Talibum holy warriors™ operate under the express rule that life as it existed on the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century is still a viable model. It appears to be hopeless to expect any introspection and accountability for most muslims.

In the ethically and sensibly retarded moral equivalence/"cycle of violence" game played by Arabs/Muslims and their prescription for jihad, there is actually genuine causation and parity between the deliberate murder of a civilian noncombatant and the targeted killing of those who plan and commit such vicious crimes.

It seems that most would rather see Afghanistan in ruins than rebuilt along the precepts of rule of law. The worst offenders of this ideology are the hypocrites who have ensconced themselves in their Western life styles, enjoying the fruits of freedom they enjoy while condemning the rest of their brotherhood to misery and poverty under the strictures of a 7th century legal apparatus of rumor and speculation.

This is why I feel a sense of hopelessness about the prospects for democracy in today's Middle East, which is dominated either by the oil drunk kleptocrats of the tribal Arab or by the greedy and equally brutal Arab autocrat. I was pretty optimistic at first for a place like Afghanistan because it simply makes sense that any people, if presented with the opportunity, would fight tooth and nail for freedom and the manifold benefits that come with freedom. My optimism has been tempered by the undeniable reality of the ancient Arab/muslim social order of revulsion for the non-muslim and the unholy insensate rage of jihad.

 

[Talha777]

Did you ever hear of OBL?

Nope never heard of that.

By the way I said not ALL Muslims are terrorist.

 

[Resigned]

I dont know if America is invading and killing Afghanis in order to make a pipeline or for natural resources. Muslims should understand who is behind these invasions of Muslim countries and forced imposition of western cultural values and immorality. Do you think Satan needs or wants oil? Muslims wake up and realize this is all out war against your RELIGION.

Oh my. The conspiracy theorists are running rampant.

The specific conspiracy theory you’re proposing is called the "Unocal conspiracy theory". Back in the 1990's Unocal Oil Company hired a Korean engineering company to see if an 1,100 km pipeline could be built across Afghanistan to Pakistan. The Taliban were willing to allow it but Unocal eventually changed their minds. The pipeline was never built. It still isn't being built. It probably never will be built.

The idea even resurfaced again in 2002.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1984459.stm

With a functioning government, (in spite of the Talibums wish to destroy it), the idea actually makes sense now as Afghanistan could use the revenue for a myriad number of purposes.

However… go ahead, humor us. Make your "conspiracy theory" work. Who is building a pipeline across Afghanistan?

No pipeline - no "conspiracy theory".

 

[Talha777]

First of all I request you nicely to edit you post and spell Taliban correctly, otherwise I will have to report you to moderators. Please be respectful of Islam and Muslims.

Second of all, I am not promoting any conspiracy theory, if you reread what I wrote I made it clear I DO NOT think America invaded for natural resources, oil, or pipelines, etc.,

this is what I wrote:

Do you think Satan needs or wants oil? Muslims wake up and realize this is all out war against your RELIGION.

 

[wilberhum]

First of all I request you nicely to edit you post and spell Taliban correctly, otherwise I will have to report you to moderators. Please be respectful of Islam and Muslims.

Second of all, I am not promoting any conspiracy theory, if you reread what I wrote I made it clear I DO NOT think America invaded for natural resources, oil, or pipelines, etc.,

this is what I wrote:

Taliban respectful of Islam and Muslims. OMG

The Taliban are nothing but drug running misogynistic kidnapping killers.
I would never associate them with Islam.

 

[Talha777]

The Taliban feel complimented and flattered from the insults coming from a person like you.

 

[wilberhum]

The Taliban feel complimented and flattered from the insults coming from a person like you.

I'm sure they do. They don't deserve the respect I have shown them.

 

[aamirsaab]

People, people. Quit yappin and go to bed. I know for a fact that it is bedtime for several members on this thread right now.

Now what would mommy say?

GET YO A$$ INTO BED!

:sunny:

 

[barney]

Afganistan we have to remember has a complicated history as regards foreign invaders.
They have had Mongels, Russians , British, persians and uncle tom cobbely all wandering over their mountains for centuries.
Britain as recently as the 1920's.

Our (western) society has changed out of all recognition from those days. We know darned well that we are not in Afganistan to play The Great Game.
The afgan culture and society hasnt changed in 1000 years, how are they to know that we are not after their rocks?

 

[Rou]

No problem at all MT. Yours was actually a nicely executed, clinical dissection of amani’s comments.

I did want to address your noted double standards as it applies to the killing of Afghani’s. Where the U.S. and coalition forces operate under rules of engagement that place our soldiers at risk with the explicit intention of protecting civilians, the Talibum holy warriors™ operate under the express rule that life as it existed on the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century is still a viable model. It appears to be hopeless to expect any introspection and accountability for most muslims.

In the ethically and sensibly retarded moral equivalence/"cycle of violence" game played by Arabs/Muslims and their prescription for jihad, there is actually genuine causation and parity between the deliberate murder of a civilian noncombatant and the targeted killing of those who plan and commit such vicious crimes.

It seems that most would rather see Afghanistan in ruins than rebuilt along the precepts of rule of law. The worst offenders of this ideology are the hypocrites who have ensconced themselves in their Western life styles, enjoying the fruits of freedom they enjoy while condemning the rest of their brotherhood to misery and poverty under the strictures of a 7th century legal apparatus of rumor and speculation.

This is why I feel a sense of hopelessness about the prospects for democracy in today's Middle East, which is dominated either by the oil drunk kleptocrats of the tribal Arab or by the greedy and equally brutal Arab autocrat. I was pretty optimistic at first for a place like Afghanistan because it simply makes sense that any people, if presented with the opportunity, would fight tooth and nail for freedom and the manifold benefits that come with freedom. My optimism has been tempered by the undeniable reality of the ancient Arab/muslim social order of revulsion for the non-muslim and the unholy insensate rage of jihad.

Your views are yours in the ending my friend but the jihad for freedom has two sides to it always now one says that those in afganistan would be free if the were liberated however what does liberation mean? does it mean freed from the taliban and enslaved by western ideals?

Just as the west fears the ideals of islam (though not fully understanding them) as such is the feelings of islam itself being stamped out or watered down by the ideals of the west...there is an great deal of diffrence between the two and a balance can be found and that is what i would hope for...

but the war in afganistan is not one of ideals as far as the goverment of US is concerned...if it was the the only way to spread democracy would be through the use of democratic discussion..instead we have all out war? on the basis of one man being in that country?

Let us not pretend that the coalition forces are there of there own free will of course not they have been ordered there by there countries correct?

Therefore there personal aim is not to do good but to follow orders?

The decsion and true reason behind the war is known by those who give the orders and they are the bush adminstration...

Looking at the adminstration and there history and there motives not many would state that they are there to help the people of afganistan!?

There motive was at first as they stated Osama? then it changed to democracy? the story may change but the truth remains...

A land is being torn apart a people are being displaced lives are being ruined...

This is not how you spread democracy...no one asked to be saved...no one needed democracy...there was no tyrant...

As for cause for killing the innocent...it is a well known fact that civilian casualties are accepted in US military action & whilst stating that these casualties are kept at a minimumn they often are over the estimated amount.

If in a democratic country they accept civilian casualties why is it suprising that a non-democratic country would do anything diffrent? less education, less chance of a moral thinking? it is not the fault of that country and its people that they do not have the economic statis to educate more people so indeed a lack of understanding is to be expected...

Also if looking at the quran it clearly states that the innocent should not be harmed and the taliban fear that which is the law of allah, this so called war for democracy is a shambles...and follows what laws? the attack on afganistan has no basis? they did not attack USA nor did they ask for democracy?

What hypocrisy is it to attack a country and force democracy upon them??

Why do majoriity of the afgans support the taliban? wether they like the taliban or not, they realise this is not a war of freedom but one of ideals...a democratic country is not what afganistan will become more so a western controlled land with western ideals and western ways...

you want to see the future of afganistan with western control then look at turkey after world war 2 and look at what happend to the democracy that has been laid down there...and tell me...what muslims are those that reside within that land?

The west will do what it must and islam will do what it must.....as for opinions...they are but grains of sand in the wind...here for one to see and gone for another...never the same...

 

[Rou]

Afganistan we have to remember has a complicated history as regards foreign invaders.
They have had Mongels, Russians , British, persians and uncle tom cobbely all wandering over their mountains for centuries.
Britain as recently as the 1920's.

Our (western) society has changed out of all recognition from those days. We know darned well that we are not in Afganistan to play The Great Game.
The afgan culture and society hasnt changed in 1000 years, how are they to know that we are not after their rocks?

It has not changed and nor have they been allowed to go further with there country constant interferance has been upon afganistan as in lebanon every time they move forward a attack will happen to set them back 6 years....

If not for there rocks?....oh you mean oil.....then tell me are they there to free them?

What kind of democracy is it to force democracy upon others?

again -

002.010
In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).​

002.011
When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!" ​

002.012
Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.​

 

[Rou]

Taliban respectful of Islam and Muslims. OMG

The Taliban are nothing but drug running misogynistic kidnapping killers.
I would never associate them with Islam.

Not that im the talibans best friend but that description can be given to the ~US army as well actully we can add rapist,racist,murderers,inhuman,disrespectful,evil...

the list could go on hey?

i mean considering the endless amount of proof against the actions of so many of the soilders out there? the actions in iraq, afgan and abu ghraib and guntanamo?

i see no muslim stamping on any bibles or flushing bibles down toilets?

i see no muslim blowing up churches or disrespecting the christian religon?

i see no army of muslims attacking western lands?

you group together few people and say they did 9/11?

you group together few guys to say they did 7/7

how many of those people are there against the west??

yet in iraq and afganistan a western army is sent? against what? they have no army?

The media band together all terroists around the world? al qaeda!??

any bomb that goes off is al qaeda?? this is no army?

it is so the west can sleep better at night...we fight not men women and children in there own land in there own homes...

no we fight insurgents...we fight terrorists....we fight...suicide bombers...

many of those that are fighting are fighting beacuse this war started before that they were getting along with there life....