Brussels mayor bans upcoming anti-Islam protest

[KAding]

This was a really bad move. It was an anti-democratic ruling by the mayor and hopefully the courts will allow the protest.

 

[Cognescenti]

The move will only anger further those who hold these views. What is the deal? Xenophobes don't get free speech?

I can see restricting the route of the march to avoid provocation or supplying extra police protection, but this won't work. Do you think the potential marchers will decide they were wrong and open up an interfaith dialogue center?

 

[Zman]

“I decided to forbid the September 11 demonstration ‘against the Islamicisation of Europe,” he said. “Such incitement to discrimination and hatred, which we usually call racism and xenophobia, is forbidden by a considerable number of international treaties and is punished by our penal laws and by the European legislation. The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly pronounced judgments condemning this type of acts,” he was quoted as saying.

“The intention is obviously to confound the terrorist activities of Muslim extremists on the one hand and Islam as a religion and all Muslims on the other hand,” Thielemans added. “With regard to the planned demonstration of September 11 ‘against the Islamicisation of Europe’ my mind is made up.

Bravo. I salute that gentleman!

 

[aamirsaab]

So now we cant even mention islamization, because angry muslims in Europe will make riots? Your words rather proved that this demo had sense

You can mention islamization. But, this particular demonstration was doing more than that. It would have led to needless violence and I think we all know what that means by now.

Again, are muslims who protest against christianization and westernization in muslim world, racists ?

Not unless the groups were attending the protests were racists which is pretty much the case for this demo.

This was a really bad move. It was an anti-democratic ruling by the mayor and hopefully the courts will allow the protest.

Not really since the laws of that country dictated that particular type of demo would be punishable.

The move will only anger further those who hold these views. What is the deal? Xenophobes don't get free speech?

By letting them have the demo will it change their anger? In anycase, that country's laws and treaties dictated that the demo couldn't take place.

I can see restricting the route of the march to avoid provocation or supplying extra police protection, but this won't work. Do you think the potential marchers will decide they were wrong and open up an interfaith dialogue center?

They will find other means of venting their anger such as the internet or a television show. Everyone else manages too...

 

[Muezzin]

Anti-Islamicisation Demonstrations deliberately held on September 11th? I predict a riot...

I think the mayor made the right decision.

 

[Amadeus85]

Anti-Islamicisation Demonstrations deliberately held on September 11th? I predict a riot...

I think the mayor made the right decision.

Its funny that Turks in Turkey can demonstrate against islamization, while citizens of Belgium can not. :?

 

[Muezzin]

Its funny that Turks in Turkey can demonstrate against islamization, while citizens of Belgium can not. :?

Are the Turks demonstrating on September 11th?

Anyone who allows that sort of demonstration, on that particular day... what do they think will happen? And so I'm glad the mayor of Brussels has not allowed this demonstration to take place.

 

[Amadeus85]

Anti-Islamicisation Demonstrations deliberately held on September 11th? I predict a riot...

I think the mayor made the right decision.

Your words reminded me what Segolene Royal said just before the presidential elections, that if Sarko wins, the youths in french suburbs will make riots. Well, Sarko won. No one likes to get such threatens. Dont protest against islamization, because young muslims in Belgium will burn cars and shops. So maybe we shall wait few years, when its too late. :skeleton:

Are the Turks demonstrating on September 11th?

Anyone who allows that sort of demonstration, on that particular day... what do they think will happen? And so I'm glad the mayor of Brussels has not allowed this demonstration to take place.

So if the demo took part in 12th September it will be ok for you.?

 

[Muezzin]

Your words reminded me what Segolene Royal said just before the presidential elections, that if Sarko wins, the youths in french suburbs will make riots. Well, Sarko won. No one likes to get such threatens. Dont protest against islamization, because young muslims in Belgium will burn cars and shops. So maybe we shall wait few years, when its too late. :skeleton:

Dunno why you quoted the other post, but you misunderstand. I'm not saying don't protest. I'm saying if people protest on September 11th of all days, they're asking for trouble.

EDIT: Yup, they could protest on another day and, though I might disagree vehemently with them, I wouldn't want to stop them as a matter of urgency or public safety. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Amadeus85]

I dont even live in western Europe, so i wont take part in such demos anyway . My country is too poor, and to unknown to gather immigrants. But even in my country so many people are aware of whats going on in Western Europe. Few politics warned the society that if we dont encourage citizens to have more kids, we will have the same problems like France or Holland. And the reality is that you won't find more nationalistic people in world than Europeans.So i think that such problems like with this demo will be growing drasticly in next years, as Europe will probably wiill have to embrace 50 millions immigrants (mostly muslims) 'till 2050 if they want keep economic progress.

 

[KAding]

Not really since the laws of that country dictated that particular type of demo would be punishable.

That is not true IMHO. I don't see what law would forbid this demonstration:

From the organizers:

http://siad.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/aims-of-the-march-911/
Aims of the demonstration:

1. To show the world that Europeans and others have had enough of Sharia by stealth and creeping Islamism.

2. To be the first in a long line of similar events. We are in this for the long haul and continual opposition to Sharia and Islamism will bring us success.

3. To build up a network of millions of people, both as individuals and as members of likeminded organisations, determined to reverse Islamism and restore freedom.

This network will then provide the necessary mutual support for further events.

Therefore, the SIOE Brussels 9/11 Demo only allows the following banners:
Stop islamisation of Europe.
No sharia here.
Democracy not theocracy.
Enough is enough.

If this would be illegal then, frankly, any demonstration against any political ideology would have to become illegal. How can it possibly be illegal to demonstrate against the Sharia or against Islamism ("Islamism holds that Islamic law (sharia) must be the basis for all statutory law of society")?

You can protest against communism, you can protest against secularism, you can protest against liberalism, you can protest against the EU constitution, you can protest against theocracy, heck you can even protest against the Church or the pope. Then why would you not be able to protest against the Sharia? To me it does not make sense. Why would political Islam have to be treated any differently from any other political ideology?

The two only arguments here would be:
1. to claim the organizers or some protesters have hidden motives, which would be in violation of the law. But can you ban a demonstration because you have a suspicion that some/many/all demonstrators are racists and inciting hatred?
2. There would be violence from the side of the demonstrators. If counter-demonstrations turn out to initiate the violence, it is the job of the police to make sure the two groups are separated. Giving in to threats of violence from other groups would be giving in to intimidation and is not acceptable.

 

[Uthman]

Belgian protesters to fight ban
By Alix Kroeger
BBC News, Brussels

The organisers of a march against Islam say they will appeal against a decision to refuse them a permit.

The mayor of Brussels refused permission for the 11 September march by Stop the Islamisation of Europe, saying it would disturb public order.

His decision has been upheld by a Belgian court, but now the marchers plan to appeal to the highest court in the land for an urgent decision.

And the Danish branch of the alliance says its members will march anyway.

The alliance wants to hold the demonstration on the sixth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on the US.

Its slogans include No to Sharia Law and Democracy Not Theocracy.

Brussels has a substantial Muslim population.

The German organiser, Udo Ulfkotte, says the marchers' freedom of speech has been denied by the ban and rejects any suggestion of ties to extremist neo-Nazi groups.

He says a new political party in Germany will be formed as a result of the ban on the Brussels march.

It will act as a sponge, he says, for all those who are fed up with politicians and want equal rights for everybody.

Source

 

[Keltoi]

I'm not familiar with the Belgian system of law, but I would think if there is any significant freedom of speech protection in the books, then this demonstration was probably unlawfully rejected.

 

[Amadeus85]

I'm not familiar with the Belgian system of law, but I would think if there is any significant freedom of speech protection in the books, then this demonstration was probably unlawfully rejected.

The mayor said that this demo would bring only hate and racism. It was planned on 9/11, he saw it controversial so he banned it.

 

[KAding]

Well, actually the mayors main argument was that it might lead to violence. This is the legal foundation of his ruling on the demonstration; that it might be a threat to public safety. The mayor feared there might be scuffles between the demonstrators and local Muslims.

He might well be right, but thats hardly a reason to ban the demonstration. He also noted that the organizers were Islamophobe, but Islamophobia is not a crime.

 

[Amadeus85]

Well, actually the mayors main argument was that it might lead to violence. This is the legal foundation of his ruling on the demonstration; that it might be a threat to public safety. The mayor feared there might be scuffles between the demonstrators and local Muslims.

He might well be right, but thats hardly a reason to ban the demonstration. He also noted that the organizers were Islamophobe, but Islamophobia is not a crime.

Suddenly this reminded me a situation from my country. Two years ago, president of Warsaw (now president of Poland) banned gay parade in our capital. He said that it might have led to violence and agression between gays and football hooligans. And you know what, this decision was completely condemned by europeans, also by EU parliament.Our country was named as homophobic, untolerant etc etc. And now where is their reaction?

 

[north_malaysian]

Are in muslim countries banned anti- westernization marches?

On 4.04.1997, 200 Muslims were detained for participating in Anti-Israeli Cricket Team demonstration in Malayan University.

 

[KAding]

Suddenly this reminded me a situation from my country. Two years ago, president of Warsaw (now president of Poland) banned gay parade in our capital. He said that it might have led to violence and agression between gays and football hooligans. And you know what, this decision was completely condemned by europeans, also by EU parliament.Our country was named as homophobic, untolerant etc etc. And now where is their reaction?

Thats different :thankyou:.

 

[InToTheRain]

Yes I think so to, that is because a gay parade is about people protesting for their own rights, as where this demonstration was supposed to be a rally against the rights of others! Big difference wouldn't you say

Good point :thumbs_up

Got to respect the mayor for the decision he made :statisfie
Allow such things to happen and they are only adding fuel to the fire regardless of whether it's an Islamic nation such as Turkey or a western one such as Brussels.

And what if those people just wanted to fight for stopping muslim immigration to Europe to save the christian roots of this country?

And then the Neo Nazis will make protest against the coloured people within their saying they want to preserve the White race within their nation. oh:

 

[Malaikah]

The banners don't even make sense, who is trying to implement islamic law in Europe?

I have to agree that this demonstration appears to be inciting hate and discrimination against a minority.

Does their right of freedom of speech out way our right of freedom of religion?

And what if those people just wanted to fight for stopping muslim immigration to Europe to save the christian roots of this country?

Well the country is secular so I don't see why they should be able to do that.