My whole point is that when a hadith is projected back,.... IT DOES NOT GO THROUGH A FABRICATOR. It goes through a well trusted Muslim, but then it stops there;
the chain is not complete,
but the last person on the chain is well trusted.
Then a scholar will fill in the rest of the chain in the way that he "thinks" it should be.
Relevant parts of my previous replies which have already addressed your point:
ibṉĀdam;1582628 said:
It is impossible for more than one narrator to fabricate the same Hadith and project it back to the Prophet :saws:. Most of the Ahadeeth have Shawahid. Your argument can only hold true for Ghareeb Hadeeth. But then again, scholars have further classified Ghareeb Ahadeeth into “Hasan Gharib Sahih” , “Sahih Gharib,” “Gharib Hasan,” “Jayyid Gharib Hasan,” “Hasan Jayyid Gharib,” “Jayyid Gharib.” Each of these terms denote a different level of authenticity.
They have carefully studied all the narrators in the chain and perfectly classified each of them. There's no room left for further disagreement.
ibṉĀdam;1583172 said:
As I said above, it is not possible to project back the chains for a Hadith that has Shawahid. Otherwise it would mean that all the shawahid chains have been projected back which is not possible. If one scholar falsely projects back the isnad then that doesn't mean that everyone would do the same. Are they all working in some sort of conspiracy to produce false chains? You are simply casting doubt on the character of the scholars without any proof.
Suppose, for arguments sake, you are living in an era before Imam Bukhari :rh:, and you project the chain of a Hadith and ascribe it to Sufyan bin 'Uyaynah Al-Hilali :rh: (one of the trustworthy narrators in the first Hadeeth of Jame' As-Saheeh).
Now you write down the Hadith along with your projected chain in your book, say HWPC (Hadith with Projected Chains), and you also teach this Hadith to a number of students to spread it far and wide.
This is how a projected chain must pass through the fabricator himself. It is impossible for you as a fabricator to bypass yourself and ask your students to narrate the Hadith directly from Sufyan, a trustworthy narrator.
A few years later, Imam Bukhari is born. He hears of your book HWPC and the Hadith that you had projected back from Sufyan :rh: and tries to verify it.
Let's leave the book aside because the book will make it very obvious that you have narrated that Hadith from Sufyan.
So Imam Bukhari learns of this Hadith from his teacher 'A' who in turn was your student and has directly recorded it from you, and you are narrating it from Sufyan.
Sufyan :rh: is known to be trustworthy, and all the narrators in the projected chain are trustworthy, as attested by their contemporaries. Now only you and your students are left to be scrutinized.
Now if you are not listed among the students of Sufyan, then you are automatically cast aside and all your narrations are deemed suspicious.
But in case you were smart enough not leave any trace behind, and has actually been one of his active students, then Imam Bukhari will look for the same Hadith narrated by another student of Sufyan. If he couldn't find it, then it means that you are the only one who knows this Hadith (since you are the one who has projected its chain from Sufyan). In this case, he will classify this Hadith as
Ahad or
Khabar Wahid. It will be further classified in to
Ghareeb since all chains travel through you and Sufyan only.
Now for its authenticity, it will remain doubtful until another chain or until a supporting Hadith of similar words is found. If found (which cannot be the case in your fabrication), it will be classified into one of the following:
- Saheeh li-Ghayrihi - صَحِيْح لِغَيْرِه - Saheeh due to support of others,
- Hasan li-dhaatihi - حَسَن لِذَاتِه - Hasan on its own, and
- Hasan li-Ghayrihi - حَسَن لِغَيْرِه - Hasan due to support of others.
I hope it is clear now that you cannot project a chain and bypass it yourself. It has to go through the fabricator himself at certain point. Don't make me repeat it again later on.
kidcanman said:
"Interpolations reach some of these poeple from various sources. He who scrutinizes the knowledge [of traditions] with competence and care is shocked by the [number of] interrupted traditions from those who are not well-known Successors"
This was also clarified earlier. Please see the following quote from one of my previous posts:
ibṉĀdam;1582745 said:
The sentence you have quoted is not an evidence of projecting back or interpolation. All it says is that there are Mursal narrations accepted by some scholars from lesser known Tabi'een.
If what you are asserting was true, then those scholars would have filled the gap in those mursal traditions by faking an isnad. In that case, there would be no mursal tradition left. The existence of mursal Ahadeeth is in itself a proof against your invalid claim.
