Can God Become A Man??

[IslamicRevival]

I don't understand the point of this thread. Why are we delving into matters that do not concern us? If something is beyond our understanding then surely its better to remain silent then tread into dangerous territory? Allah knows best

 

[Ali_008]

God *can* become man is He wants to. Infact God even have His "begotten" son if He wants to aswell. There is no objection to what ever God wills to do. The question is,however, is in terms of accpeting truth. God did not transform into man and descended down to earth. The problem centrally is that we can't attribute to God that which there is no evidence of. And in the terms of God really becoming a man the main question here is *why* would He need to in first place. God can become a man if He wants to but He didn't since it's not necessary and wouldn't because it is degrading of Him.

Same applies to Him having a son. In the Quran it explicity does not reject that God can not "have" a son it even goes as far as to say that and in the tongue of the prophet (pbuh) "If the All-Merciful did really have a son, then I am the first of worshippers" --of that son. But the fault here is that; God does not have ason to begin with. And so it would be not only blasmephy against Him to say He has a begotten son but also a lie.

Uhhhh...

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten
Surah # 112 - Surah Al 'Ikhlas - Verse 3

 

[Logikon]

God does not have a son to begin with.

And so it would be not only blasmephy against Him to say He has a begotten son but also a lie.

But you don't know that.

The Koran does not mention wildlife that is native to New Zealand for example and it exists none the less.

 

[Berries'forest]

Um. You know maybe before you start dismissing someone and express your lack of patience you should actually read what's been written thoroughly before jumping to conclusions. I will cite God willing the verse ftom the Quran but later.
It would be much nicer if you stopped searching for what you may perceive as flaws and condescendingly point them out just to entertain yourself. I am no less a muslim than you are and just because I dont express my self in the writing style that you prefer it gives you no right
to give me a cold shoulder. Faith is a word of action it is a ver not a noun.

 

[Berries'forest]

Just for clarification before anyone starts a dispute. He said can is not the same would or did. If you are a muslim you would inherently believe that God is cabale of all things. Can is a term of defining ability. When you negate that God can't become man, it follows quickly enough the same premise of God creating a rock so heavy that He cant lift it himself. With that being denote it only implies that God has limits in what He is capable of doing hence God the indefinitively unlimited and omnipotent Creator is on the contradictive and here you actually not only confuse people but also defy the original doctrine of God having no limits to His capabilities so when it is a question of can then certainly God can do anything He wants to. Otherwise a negative would detail and attribute limits to an unlimitedly capable being. Does that make sensed. Are we good?. Good, now let's move on to the point marking subject of Him willing to or having done a thing as mentioned above. My answer was a resounding no. It was meant to convey that just because God can do something does not necessarily mean He would do it. Nor does it mean that He actually needs to. Just as you wouldnt do something just because you can without providing your given or ungiven reasons for it. And in the case where He did do it. Then we wouldnt have been rejecting it because Islam revolves around accepting the truth and not around the way we emotionally more even rationally believe what God should and should not do. If this didnt clarify my above posts then I really dont know what more I could say.

 

[Ali_008]

^^^ Muslims do not believe that God can do anything and everything. If Allah could do anything and everything then He could even lie, He could even do injustice, but all those are ungodly traits, and thus we don't believe that Allah can do anything and everything. Allah's can only do that which is godly as He has Himself mentioned in the Qur'an that He is truthful, just, strict in punishment, forgiving, and other attributes.

It is this belief that separates the Muslim belief from the Christian belief. Christians proclaim that God loves everybody regardless whether that person is a devout saint or a ruthless tyrant whereas the Muslim belief states that Allah loves those who do righteous deeds, and hates those who transgress his limits. It automatically implies the just nature of Allah which is lacking in the Christian God.

Just watch the video which I posted above.

 

[Berries'forest]

Muslims do not believe that God can do anything and everything. If Allah could do anything and everything then He could even lie, He could even do injustice, but all those are ungodly traits, and thus we don't believe that Allah can do anything and everything.

Yeah okay, I guess then we really do have some kind of central disturbance when it comes to that. Assuming that I say things out of my head and I don't have an understanding of the Qura'n I'm interested in knowing how you interpret this verse:
"Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty, and, He is Able to do all things"- Surah Al-mulk;verse:1-Pickthal.

God *will* not lie. There is a fine distinct line between what God can and will not do. He will not lie because it is degrading of Him to do so. Infact this kind of anology is out of the queston and irrelevent.

He could even lie, He could even do injustice, but all those are ungodly traits, and thus we don't believe that Allah can do anything and everything. Allah's can only do that which is godly as He has Himself mentioned in the Qur'an that He is truthful, just, strict in punishment, forgiving, and other attributes.

Again can does not determine whether he *would* do it. As I said the possibility of God doing something like the this you mention above is impossible not because He can't do it -in terms of ability- but because it is opposing to His nature and there is no reason for Him to do it in first place, that is not to forget that it is degrading of His high status.

It is this belief that separates the Muslim belief from the Christian belief. Christians proclaim that God loves everybody regardless whether that person is a devout saint or a ruthless tyrant whereas the Muslim belief states that Allah loves those who do righteous deeds, and hates those who transgress his limits. It automatically implies the just nature of Allah which is lacking in the Christian God.

I'm not sure if this directly relates to the topic but you have a point. However; and although what really essentially sepreates Muslim from Christian belief is the monotheistic creed. The whole concept of having a subect being x if it does not fit into that x category then it is automatically y. If God loves everyone then that must also include tyrants and oppressers as well; God loves those who do righteous deeds and is forgiving to those whom lack behind. The 99 names of Allah contained a balanced duality in the God's attirbutes. There is always a balance which makes Him a perfect entity.

 

[Berries'forest]

If God loves everyone then that must also include tyrants and oppressers as well;

I realized I made a typo mistake here.

If God loves everyone then that must also include tyrants and oppressers as well; He either love everyone or love no one at all. Both are wrong premises. And this is what happens with questions like these they end up in one way or another becoming a loaded question in which both alternate options are different sides of the same token. Perhaps we should also know that God's justice is mercy and His mercy is justice.

 

[Indian Bro]

No it's not. I said the only limit is the inability to do the logically impossible, which isn't actually a limit but just common sense.

I understand your intentions but you must also understand there is a difference between saying:

1.) Allah (swt) has infinite power even if he cannot do everything.
2.) Allah (swt)'s power is limited because he cannot do everything.

Just because Allah (swt) cannot do some things (like lying or becoming human, etc) doesn't show a sign of weakness from Allah (swt) and neither does it "limit" His power. His power has no limit or boundary. If Allah (swt) could do everything then it would contradict with Him having unlimited power or being All-Powerful, e.g. if Allah (swt) can become a creation (e.g. human) then His powers become limited because the power of a creation (e.g. human) is limited whereas the power of Allah (swt) is unlimited, no limit whatsoever!

Just because Allah (swt) cannot do everything this does not indicate a weakness in Him or limit His power (astaghfurallah!). He has power over all things and cannot do things that will no longer make Him a God, which is why I posted earlier, God can not do everything (things befitting of God, or un-Godly things). This is the greatness of God and shows why there is no limit to His power, subhanAllah!

 

[MustafaMc]

My understanding is that Allah's (swt) existence is unlike our existence. Our existence is defined by the miniscule space occupied by our bodies and by the minute amount of time between our conception and our death. My understanding is that Allah (swt) is not bound by our space-time continuum. We do not perceive Allah (swt) as occupying one portion of space over here while not occupying another portion over there, but neither do we say that Allah (swt) exists everywhere and in everything at the same time (astaghfir Allah). The same can be said for any point in time from before the moment of creation until after its destruction.

Allah's (swt) existence is the only true reality which brings us to the question of what does it mean to be a man? What is the nature of our existence? We have a physical body that contains a few trillion cells each with 46 chromosomes that are all the same but are unique to each individual (except identical twins), but am I really that Caucasian male body? We go through stages of development and decline, but are we defined by any single moment between our birth and death? Do we cease to exist with our death? I have a certain ability to think and understand through the activity of my brain, but does that define who I am along the lines of, "I think, therefore I am"? When my brain ceases to function, do I then cease to exist? I have a certain will to act and to move my body a certain way or think about the solution to some problem. Is that capability or will to act and think define who I am, or is it the choices I make along the way? I have certain beliefs about the unseen, but are those beliefs what defines who I am? I could go on and on with asking the question of "Who am I?" with no clear answer other than an accumulation of choices, actions and intentions made be some essence (soul?) that exists within my body between my birth and death. If, in a sense, my existence is a mystery to me, then how much more so the existence of Allah who is beyond the limitation of occupying a human body (astaghfir Allah)? The opening question itself is a philosophical and religious absurdity, although perhaps it was made just to illustrate that very point!

 

[Indian Bro]

The statement "God can do everything" is contradictory because God's power is not connected to irrationalities!

If God CAN lie (note: I didn't say "would", I said "can"), then He no longer becomes a god! Therefore there are some things that God cannot do. This doesn't show weakness in God. Just think about it, if you never lied all your life would someone approached you and said "You're weak because you never lied!", does that make any sense? Or what if you've told a lie and someone approached you and said "You're weak because you lied", then that makes sense! Lying is something befitting of God, just as becoming a creation is befitting of God or being injustice is befitting of God.

 

[Berries'forest]

If God CAN lie (note: I didn't say "would", I said "can"), then He no longer becomes a god! Therefore there are some things that God cannot do.

God cannot lie because He wont. Great point. God almighty is far above such a despicable trait as lying. When it comes to His 'ability' to lie it is not a limit but rather it is a higher standard He set for himself. Otherwise two things cannot be alike and different at the same time. Major duality crisis here generates and also it's contardictive. Perhaps the real question should not be "Can God become man?" it should be retarced back to it's original form of " Why would a limitless entity choose to restrict His infinitive limit and thus contradict His own or even cease His own existance". Man is mortal and limited. God is immortal and unlimited. One can not be God and man at the same time; it's not only contradictive but highly impossible for it to happen one would have not been an inifinite being to begin with. It's really like drawing circles and then marking a point in the middle and then asking whether the circle can transform into a dot or vice versa. Nosensical yet also intrugining. It's really only black and white there's no gray in between. Man cannot become God; because simply he is man. And vice versa.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Vision;

I don't understand the point of this thread. Why are we delving into matters that do not concern us? If something is beyond our understanding then surely its better to remain silent then tread into dangerous territory? Allah knows best

Agreed, I think we should use scriptures to try and change ourselves, rather than to change others.

Blessings

Eric

 

[Indian Bro]

God cannot lie because He wont. Great point. God almighty is far above such a despicable trait as lying. When it comes to His 'ability' to lie it is not a limit but rather it is a higher standard He set for himself. Otherwise two things cannot be alike and different at the same time. Major duality crisis here generates and also it's contardictive. Perhaps the real question should not be "Can God become man?" it should be retarced back to it's original form of " Why would a limitless entity choose to restrict His infinitive limit and thus contradict His own or even cease His own existance". Man is mortal and limited. God is immortal and unlimited. One can not be God and man at the same time; it's not only contradictive but highly impossible for it to happen one would have not been an inifinite being to begin with. It's really like drawing circles and then marking a point in the middle and then asking whether the circle can transform into a dot or vice versa. Nosensical yet also intrugining. It's really only black and white there's no gray in between. Man cannot become God; because simply he is man. And vice versa.

I want to ask you something.

Do you think Allah (swt) can do something which will no longer make him a god? (AstaghfurAllah!)

I'm not asking you if Allah (swt) WOULD, because we both agree the answer for that is "no". I'm asking you if He COULD or CAN do?

 

[Berries'forest]

I want to ask you something.

Do you think Allah (swt) can do something which will no longer make him a god? (AstaghfurAllah!)

I'm not asking you if Allah (swt) WOULD, because we both agree the answer for that is "no". I'm asking you if He COULD or CAN do?

I dont ofcourse not. I wouldnt be a muslim if I did. HE is not God if He can become man. Because thry are completely different and distint entities. Allah "cannot" become man end of story because it is against His very being. I think this sums it up. I agree with Eric H sometimes we should not debate that much it deprives us feeling faith fully within our hearts. I ask you Lord forgiveness for my many tongue slips.

 

[Indian Bro]

I dont ofcourse not. I wouldnt be a muslim if I did. HE is not God if He can become man. Because thry are completely different and distint entities. Allah "cannot" become man end of story because it is against His very being. I think this sums it up. I agree with Eric H sometimes we should not debate that much it deprives us feeling faith fully within our hearts. I ask you Lord forgiveness for my many tongue slips.

We will never truly fully understand God, our mind isn't capable to comprehend His Greatness. We humans cannot even fully understand the creations of God such as the universe, galaxies even our own selves! However, if people, especially my brothers or sisters, share their views about Allah (swt) which, according to me are inaccurate, then I would most certainly address the issue.

I, along with you, ask Allah (swt) to forgive me as well as any other brothers or sisters from this thread, if we spoke anything wrong.

 

[GuestFellow]

This clip is from long a lecture but those 3 minutes are amazing from brother Abdur rheem Green.

:wa:

RAISE YOUR ARMPITS...for those who don't get it just watch the video.

On a serious note, this question reminds me of another question. XD An Atheist asked if God is so powerful can he transfer all of his powers to a rock? The person responded by saying yes God can transfer his powers to a rock. However, the question did not reflect reality. Why on Earth would God transfer his powers to a rock? Of course the atheist had no answer to that.

 

[Amigo]

God can do anything which is good.
What God can not do is what is contrary to his nature that is God can not do evil.

 

[Tyrion]

God can do anything which is good.
What God can not do is what is contrary to his nature that is God can not do evil.

In this case though, it's not a matter of things being good or not. If God becomes man, he can no longer logically be God. This cannot make sense. Also, isn't it technically against God's nature to be man, since man is by nature imperfect?

 

[Independent]

My question is from a philosophical not a theological point of view: is it really logically impossible for God to inhabit human form? Many of the answers here assume an impossibility on the grounds that God cannot become a man in his entirety - for instance:

If God becomes man, he can no longer logically be God

But why can't it be just an 'aspect' of God that is embodied?

According to Christian doctrine God is omnipresent in both place and time. So even if God is said to inhabit a bush or a human form or anything else, that can never be the 'whole' of God. It wouldn't make sense to say that God is too powerful to come into our presence because he is supposed to be here already.

For us, we only have one consciousness that can focus on one thing at a time. But for God to exist, he has to be aware of what is going on in every person's head simultaneously - not just this second but throughout history and the future.

This is unimaginable for a human. (For instance, there is a rare mental condition which means that some people continue to experience their whole lives and memories as if they are always happening - and it drives them half insane. Imagine that multiplied many billions of times). The best way we can conceive of it is to imagine an infinite number of Gods looking at each circumstance individually, but of course this is just a convenience for our imagination and in no way represents what it must be like to be God.

Therefore, there is no more reason for it to be impossible for God's consciousness to inhabit a human form than anything else. Surely it is not the 'whole' of God's consciousness that inhabits the body, but just an aspect?