This is an excellent point. Every since the time of Prophet Muhammad (saaws) Muslims have memorized and recited the Quran as the fundamental element of our 5 daily prayers. I have personally memorized only 98 ayat of the Quran in Arabic, but there are many who can recite the entire Quran. I have been in congregational prayer where the one leading was corrected during the prayer when he made a mistake by one following him. How much more so would have that been the case during the early days of Islam? If this was the case for the recitation, would the same not also apply to the written text and any mistakes have been quickly pointed out by many people?Ğħαrєєвαħ;1497188 said:
Can the English translation of the Quran be trusted?
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Allah's Apostle (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) said, "Allah will not be merciful to those who are not merciful to mankind." [Bukhari Vol. 9 : No. 473]
There is much good in Christianity although its foundation is what we consider to be the most serious sin of shirk. I think it would be wrong to say that Muslims hate Christianity, in toto. I personally believe that we all would be best off in learning tolerance for each other while sharing our respective messages with the other with the best manners. Guidance to the Truth comes but from Allah (swt) and IMO no amount of debate can convince another to change his beliefs.
Hamza Asadullah
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Burning Light If by loving Christianity you mean the true message of Jesus which was to establish the oneness of God then the message of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was a follow on of such a message just like the message of Jesus (Isa) was a follow on from thesame message of all the previous Prophets until the first Prophet Adam (As) which was to establish the oneness of God.
But if by Christianity you mean the infiltration of paganistic ideas and concepts then we detest this just as you should also detest anyone who tries to go against the true message of Jesus (As). Those who tried to twist, change and corrupt the true message of Jesus have misled so many people, if only you were to open your eyes so that you do not end up being one of those who passed their lives misled by the corrupters of the true message of Jesus.
But if by Christianity you mean the infiltration of paganistic ideas and concepts then we detest this just as you should also detest anyone who tries to go against the true message of Jesus (As). Those who tried to twist, change and corrupt the true message of Jesus have misled so many people, if only you were to open your eyes so that you do not end up being one of those who passed their lives misled by the corrupters of the true message of Jesus.
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Burninglight
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The Bible says "Vengence is mine says the Lord." That means Christians cannot take revenge. You are telling me what Allah does, but you are not Allah
Hamza Asadullah
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Really? What about an eye for an eye?
"You have heard the law that says the punishment must match the injury: 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too." (Matthew 5:38-40)
Burninglight
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I have no problem believing in the oneness of God, I don't believe God calling Jesus His "Beloved Son" is an infiltration of paganistic ideas nor the fact that He died and rose from the dead. I will not call God and Jesus a liar.
Burninglight
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What about it. An eye for an eye will just make the whole world blind. What good is that? Jesus taught love and forgiveness never an eye for an eye. Christians are not bound by the letter of the law. The letter of the law kills! Jesus brings life; without Christ we are judge by the letter of the law. That is what the Bible teaches. Didn't you know that?
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good night to this thread:hiding:
Abz2000
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so are you attempting to imply that there are to be no courts of justice in a christian country?
well that was superseded when we came on the scene:
O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain; the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female; but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then (the demand for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good man*ner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this, he shall have a painful chastisement. And there is life for you in the retali*ation, O men of understanding, that you may guard your-selves (against evil) (Quran 2:178-179).
If any man have an ear, let him hear.
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 13
btw, i don't believe Jesus (pbuh) was abrogating the law, he was just advising patience, otherwise it would not have been prophecied about the believers of latter days.
it is also in the Quran:
And if you catch them out, catch them out with an equivalent of that with which you were harmed.
But if you are patient - it is better for those who are patient.
Quran 16:125
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Revelation 12:11
who are these amazing people who don't fear death but smile in the face of it?
oh no, it's not gonna be the "t" word again is it?
you know who they are fought by? it is the beast that is diverse from the previous ones, it is given power over the whole earth (has never happened until the age of flight and global communication). and it fights them and "accuses them before our God day and night".
yup, the one who implants things in people with numbers through which they are to buy and sell.
Gosh, i really was of the opinion that the us government are at the forefront of that venture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrM6i8OlxrM
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Hamza Asadullah
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Oh ok so you are saying that it is acceptable to just ignore the scripture and take from it what you want and disregard from it what you dont want?
Hamza Asadullah
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You certainly do have a problem believing in the oneness of God as you cb learly believe in the paganistic idea of God manifesting himself in 3 ways similar to what Hindus believe regarding Brahman and many other paganistic religions.
Thus far you have not been able to provide a shred of evidence from the words of God nor Jesus to back up such lies. All you have done thus far is provide emotional fallacies. Please provide evidence from the words of God and Jesus to prove your false assertions otherwise what you sat has no basis nor any credibility.
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Christainity goes far deeper that emotional fallacies. Do you realize that this is a direct attack on Christianity? You should treat Christian faith the way you want the Muslim faith to be treated. As the Bible states; "Do unto others as you would have them do to you."
Saying that I hate Christianity takes it too far. I don't hate the religion at all but I do believe what it transformed into is a major sin. To associate a partner with Allah swt is something that I simply no longer accept as the truth or as pure monotheism. If it wasn't for Christianity, however, I wouldn't have had any semblance of an idea about God when I was growing up. Christianity in its original form is Islam and when I went on a quest for the truth this is what Allah, Al Qadir (The All powerful), gave to me though you might disagree with us on that. Christianity as the religion that it is today has nothing to offer me.
You believe after we die that the day of judgement will be something set up in a court room where Christians will be pardoned for believing a Middle Eastern man was tortured on a cross and died for our sins, and because of that belief, you will be forgiven regardless of anything that you did in this life, whereas, us Muslims see it more as something like this.
O Allah have mercy on our souls and fill our hearts and minds with Your continuous love and remembrance. May He, As-Salam, forgive us of our sins, increase our faith and multiply the good that we do in this life so we may have the very best in the hereafter. Ameeeen
The heart that witnesses the King can never worship the servant. La ilaha illa Allah. I was merely pointing out something that I observed from your behavior on this forum. If your hope was destroyed by my words then I sincerely encourage you to take a deeper look into your sincerity. You come onto this message board claiming to want to know the truth about Islam but you visit websites that are against religion all together and come to us with false claims about Islam and instead of listening to the Islamic perspective, you block it out and say "Well the Bible says this." This is an Islamic forum. We don't go by the Bible over here.
If you sincerely have questions about Islam, ask them, get your answers, and ask more instead of running to your friend Google and bringing up more false claims about the religion while ignoring the truth that we give to you. All you've been doing is sucking onto lies here and there about Islam while discounting the answers that we give to you. I'm sorry if our answers haven't been good enough for you but we are trying to answer them. I do care. I do want you to know the truth about Islam because you are my brother in humanity and I want the best for you. But then you make sly and patronizing comments and laugh out loud at other members here but when someone does it to you, you run into your shell and claim that some of us is judging you or treating you unfairly. Don't start none, won't be none.
I said this to a dear friend of mine a while ago but if you have ever put all of your expectations in humans then know that they will break your heart and you will be disappointed. If you put your expectations in Allah (swt) alone, He will never let you go.
People keep on trying to tear down this deen but the more they do it the more it grows and grows. You can choose not to accept it but you cannot deny the fact that this way of life is under attack. So in order to get alleviate their fears they want to make Islam about them. "Fear Islam because their Book says to kill all of us so we have to eradicate them." Lie. "Fear Islam because their book says to cover up their women so we can't look at them and subject them to our desires. Look, they're oppressed." Islam does not oppress women. "Fear Islam because their banking system won't allow us to make money off of interest." It's robbery. "Fear Islam because [insert excuse here]".
It's getting old and you're getting swept up in the propaganda. Stop allowing yourself to be tricked. Now if you're coming to this forum with the intention of actually becoming a Muslim then you're going to have to re-evaluate your sincerity here and open up your eyes.
You keep saying you're fighting the devil (audhu billahi min ash shaytan ir rajeem) , but have you ever fought yourself? You keep reading all of these posts on these anti-Islamic websites but have you ever read yourself? Maybe your biggest enemy is you right now? Are you here for the right reasons? Where is your heart?
Allah (swt) is closer to you, His servant, than the veins in your neck. This life is scary. It is going to make us cry. It is going to hurt us. And to get away from it we will flee to falsehood and our desires for temporary protection from the evil within it because for so long it was all many of us knew. It's all that seemed real. But know that Allah is our greatest Protector. He is the Loving One. He is the Reality. He is the Source of Peace.
I pray that Allah becomes the vision in your eyes, the comfort of your struggles, the light in your life, the refresher of your soul and the builder of your eternal home.
What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will ye not then understand? (32) [Al An'am:32]
Hamza Asadullah
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It is a direct attack on the corrupters of the true message of Jesus (as). It is also an attempt to make you see sense so that you maybe saved. It is an even bigger attempt to try and make you realise that what you believe has no basis from thewords and teachings of Jesus and God. You are taking your faith from random men who never met Jesus. You are taking your faith from those who corrupted, twisted and changed the true message of Jesus (as).
So I ask you again to provide evidence from the words and teachings of Jesus and God to back up your claims otherwise what you allege are just false lies and blasphemy against the Lord most high.
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I did not say you hate Christianity and I didn't lol at any Muslim. I laugh because their comment was humous and they it meant to be as far as I could tell. Can you prove differently? It is not nice to paint someone in a negative light because they can't see Islam as God's chosen path for them. What difference does it make where I hear thing about islam. The fact is there are things out there circulating for the public to see. I am asking if they are true and I am accused. Why? Would you rather I don't ask and go around like millions of others believeing something false about Islam?????????
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My last post for all threads for tonight
PBUY
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Abz2000
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and bear in mind that despite the leaders throughout history going with the "christianity is a peaceful religion, obey thy ruler romans 13" slant in order to keep people disarmed, pacified and under control, none of them have hesitated to use it as a tool for violence where they saw fit.
Islam is however consistent and open in it's teachings.
I also notice how Jesus and the money changers is not mentioned much coz he sure showed them - with no letting on turning the other cheek or turning a blind eye.
but when they use it to justify bombing families in their houses from airplanes (equivalent to locking the doors and setting the house on fire with the whole family inside). one does tend to wonder:
loved the song (other than the "lord" part), but the images really show the US governments hypocritical stance now that it is proving itself to be the actual enemy of God and promoter of every new debauchery.
Islam is however consistent and open in it's teachings.
I also notice how Jesus and the money changers is not mentioned much coz he sure showed them - with no letting on turning the other cheek or turning a blind eye.
but when they use it to justify bombing families in their houses from airplanes (equivalent to locking the doors and setting the house on fire with the whole family inside). one does tend to wonder:
loved the song (other than the "lord" part), but the images really show the US governments hypocritical stance now that it is proving itself to be the actual enemy of God and promoter of every new debauchery.
Astagfirullah!!! O Allah have mercy on us all and guide us to the straight path. Ameeeeeen.
Woah. That hadith went right over your head. Reading comprehension must not be your strong point. You truly don't understand...SubhanAllah. I hope you are sincere about learning about Islam because the more I read your posts, the more I think you are only here for other reasons. Some of your posts in the beginning seemed like you were so serious about really learning about Islam but then some of them seem like you are just playing and disagreeing for the sake of disagreement.
If Christians cannot take revenge then not one of them should ever be in any branch of the armed forces because the commandments say "Thou shalt not kill." Revenge falls under that in times of combat too and getting revenge on someone doesn't have to be in the form of killing either. There are other ways. But I suppose every Christian in the armed forces aren't real Christians according to you either? Astagfirullah.
And I suppose if your family was being held at gunpoint or you were somewhere and some thugs were trying to do a walk by stabbing and rob you and your friends, you would just allow your loved ones to get killed because the bible says to love your enemies and turn the other cheek, huh? You act like Muslims are bad because the religion allows for us to defend ourselves if it gets to that point. Most humans would defend themselves in situations like this but no, not you. You'd just sit idly by with your cheek turned to the left or right and a golden boy smile on your face while those around you get hurt, right? Or if some crazy person overtaken by their desires violated one of your female friends or relatives in a way that should only be done between a husband and a wife and you saw that one on the street laughing in your face and taunting you after he won the lottery, I suppose you wouldn't feel any sense of revenge at all because your book says not to and you have such great control over your feelings that the thought of choking that man won't even come into your perfect mind, huh?
I'm not painting you in a negative light. I don't really know what you look like and I was never any good at painting in art class. You are presenting yourself in a negative way. Wake up. You are not being objective and your bias is coming off as extremely disrespectful to the point where I wonder if you come back to this forum and laugh at the posts. waAllahi I really don't know. I keep on asking you questions to understand where your mind is at because it's not easy to get the implied meaning of words through a message board but then you won't answer all of them. I'm trying to help but you won't allow me or anyone else here to help you when we try. No one here is trying to trick you but when we ask the tough questions right back at you, you retreat into this odd bi-polar psyche and claim you are being attacked or mistreated and then you go to bed.
There are other Christians on this forum and members of other faiths who are very respected because they show respect and kindness to everyone here even if they disagree with our beliefs. They're not here to convert us but for a better understanding of the faith and engaging in interfaith dialogue. What are your intentions? Are you considering becoming a Muslim or are you here for interfaith dialogue? If it is the former, then be grateful for the empty inner peace and the wound that pushed you closer to God. It's going to keep hurting until you realize the truth.
Assalamu alaikum, amen to that. Sister, I agree with all that you have written on this thread. You made excellent points in a well written form.
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