Cartoon row author rewrites Qur'an!

[HeiGou]

They can disagree but Islam is perfect in my opinion and a lot of other Muslims opinion.

I have no problems with the claim that Islam is perfect. My question is slightly more subtle - whether or not any one person's understanding of Islam, without direct divine inspiration, is perfect. Presumably we can all agree there are bad Muslims, but can we agree that two pious, respectable, God fearing people might study the same texts, think about the same religion and come to two different answers without one of them, necessarily, being a hypocrit or a sham or a bad Muslim?

]I'm sorry I do not see what you are getting at...could you care to expand please...:?

The question is whether you accept that the Muslim community's view and interpretation of Islam can change in various minor ways over time. To take another example, there was a long period between the death of Ali and the modern period where Islam was used by some Muslims to justify the oppression of women. That was seen as Islamic. I assume that you do not think that was Islamic and recognise that Islam liberates women? Do you agree that the community's views can change in various ways over time?

 

[i_m_tipu]

In what way brother can you explain please? (Its not that I don't believe you, I don't have an understanding of this.)

Jazakallah

munafiq
a hypocrite, one whose external appearance is Islam (praying, fasting, "activism", etc.) but whose inner reality conceals kufr - often unbeknownst to the person themselves. (See Al-Baqarah: 8-23). A Munafiq is more dangerous and worse than a Kafir.

See Al-Baqarah: 8-23
48:6

see also.....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary/term.MUNAFIQ.html
http://etaleem.com/channels/quran/glossary.asp?req=specific&glTopicId=127
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=munafiq

 

[------]

I have no problems with the claim that Islam is perfect.

I'm glad you dont. kay:

Presumably we can all agree there are bad Muslims, but can we agree that two pious, respectable, God fearing people might study the same texts, think about the same religion and come to two different answers without one of them, necessarily, being a hypocrit or a sham or a bad Muslim?

But there is only one interpretation of the religion Islam, you cannot have more than one REAL interpretations as that would distort the belief?...:?

The question is whether you accept that the Muslim community's view and interpretation of Islam can change in various minor ways over time.

I do accept that but then again Islam is one religion and it cannot be distorted by Muslims or anyone else for that matter. :rollseyes

To take another example, there was a long period between the death of Ali and the modern period where Islam was used by some Muslims to justify the oppression of women. That was seen as Islamic. I assume that you do not think that was Islamic and recognise that Islam liberates women?

Islam does not oppress women in any way. Islam actually liberates women as the way the women are told to dress, talk, etc. is not oppressively done in Islam. :sister:

Do you agree that the community's views can change in various ways over time?

Yes I do agree with that. But if people (Muslims and Non-Muslims) study Islam properly then they will see that Islam is the same religion as it was during the Prophet's (PBUH) time and has not changed.

 

[------]

See Al-Baqarah: 8-23
48:6

see also.....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary/term.MUNAFIQ.html
http://etaleem.com/channels/quran/glossary.asp?req=specific&glTopicId=127
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=munafiq

[PIE]"A hypocrite, one whose external appearance is Islam (praying, fasting, "activism", etc.) but whose inner reality conceals kufr - often unbeknownst to the person themselves. (See Al-Baqarah: 8-23). A Munafiq is more dangerous and worse than a Kafir."[/PIE]

Woah.... That is worse than a kafir you're right. :heated:

 

[HeiGou]

I'm glad you dont. kay:

Well I would hardly dare say otherwise after reading your comments on the cartoons! This site has some really kicka** Sisters is all I can say.

But there is only one interpretation of the religion Islam, you cannot have more than one REAL interpretations as that would distort the belief?...:?

Well this is not my area, but traditionally some schools of jurisprudence accepted not only differences of opinion between schools, but also within. But these were not on big things usually. It is the modern revivalists who insist that there can only be one interpretation of the law at any one time.

I do accept that but then again Islam is one religion and it cannot be distorted by Muslims or anyone else for that matter. :rollseyes

I have no issue with that at all.

Islam does not oppress women in any way. Islam actually liberates women as the way the women are told to dress, talk, etc. is not oppressively done in Islam. :sister:

Which is not what I said. I said it has been used by some Muslims as a justification for their oppression of women. A Muslim scholar from Egypt once said a woman ought to go out of the house on three occasions - her marriage was one, her death was another and I forget the third. Do you think that this is really Islamic?

Yes I do agree with that. But if people (Muslims and Non-Muslims) study Islam properly then they will see that Islam is the same religion as it was during the Prophet's (PBUH) time and has not changed.

I have no problem with that either. As a religious claim at any rate.

 

[------]

Well I would hardly dare say otherwise after reading your comments on the cartoons! This site has some really kicka** Sisters is all I can say.

Thank you!! I'll take that as a compliment then

Well this is not my area, but traditionally some schools of jurisprudence accepted not only differences of opinion between schools, but also within. But these were not on big things usually. It is the modern revivalists who insist that there can only be one interpretation of the law at any one time.

Hmm... Ok then.... :rollseyes

I have no issue with that at all.

Kool :thumbs_up

A Muslim scholar from Egypt once said a woman ought to go out of the house on three occasions - her marriage was one, her death was another and I forget the third. Do you think that this is really Islamic?

Hmm.... I'm not the one to Judge as I do not have very deep knowledge on this kind of stuff. Will find out Inshallah and get back to you.

I have no problem with that either. As a religious claim at any rate.

All good then...kay:

 

[knuckles]

how comes this man aint dead yet :heated:

You think he deserve to die?

 

[justahumane]

Allah has not made the Muslims weak. If Muslims choose to go on that path then they will become weak. It might be because of themselves or the effect society has around them.

Peace

P.S. Thank you for respecting my opinions :thumbs_up

U are welcome sister.

 

[justahumane]

the influence of the west my friend. I believe these days muslims see flash and glitter and they get too attracted to it. How can i put it simply, the devil distracts them from Allah and even causes them to forget him. Its sad but if you saw one man act like a true muslim, i think u wud become a muslim , thats how beautiful islam is. Spend one week wiv me, you'll see what i mean

eace:

Peace brother Majid.

Well brother to correct U, the muslims who get attracted towards flash and glitter, and that too to the extent of forgeting ALLAH, are not muslims but munafiqeen as per my understanding of Islam. Plz correct me if I m wrong. So calling them muslim may be a bit unislamic of U.

Regarding my being a muslim, brother chances are too dim. I wont like to join an ideology which simply flourish on sycophancy of ALLAH the ALMIGHTY. Which says that even a greatest sinner can go to paradise if he is a muslim, but definetely not someone like Mother Teresa, Gandhi,who were mushriks offcourse, and the list is endless. I would love to live in hell with those ppls I mentioned rather than some true muslims who are busy killing their own bretherns for the cause of ALLAH. .

Brother I will love to spend more than a week with U, but I doubt that islam may be having any role in ur being such a nice human being, coz I have just mentioned some great ppls who were not muslims, but see their greatness. So why join a particular religion to be good when those who are worst of ppls according to religion have done much better service to humankind?

Thanks.