Channel 4's 'Undercover Mosque' returns

['Abd-al Latif]

And may I also add, even though I haven't heard what our beloved scholar Sh. Ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) or others who are of a much lesser degree then Sh. Ibn Baaz such as Feiz Muhammad, Khalid yasin etc have said i'm sure that there are legal proofs for all of what they said.

However, to all non-muslims no one can make a fair minded judgement from this one sided and inaccurate documentary about Islam that was produced by the vomit factory known as Channel 4 to an unaware and pre-conditioned public. Any sound minded person can see that these documentaries are biased against Islam and Muslim, edited and prepared by foolish journalists to incite hatred and enmity towards Islam and Muslims.

Make a fair minded judgement by seeing a distinguised image of Islam and Muslims from what you see on TV to what you see in real life. Islam preaches the peaceful message that it always has but know that islam is not like other religions, if you slap a Muslim in the face don't expect him to offer you the other cheek. If a Muslim is slapped in the face he will slap you back hard.

Bear that in mind.

 

[Ishbah]

No, I watched it too. I wanted to because I wanted to see what is going on in Britain's premier masjid and also because I suspected that selective editing was going on.

Now, first things first. I am a muslim, obviously, you only need to look at my profile on here to know that. I am also a revert to Islam, of around 4 years now, married to a revert of Islam, though my husband has been a Muslim for longer than I have. This might sound strange, this might sound a little off hand, but I feel it is important for me to state this so you might understand my point of view. For me, for US; my husband and I, we don't really follow a school of thought, or a culture (which as we are white and British by descent is to be expected), we just try our best to follow the Qu'ran and the teachings of our prophet (pbuh).

So onto the programme;

I found it biased towards sensationalism. There was selective editing of most of the iman's and preachers filmed. To truly understand what the iman's were speaking about one need to have read the qu'ran to see the selected parts in context.

However, there were quite a few parts that disturbed me. Parts that needed to be investigated and brought to the attention of the public. There were parts of Umm Asma's classes which concerned me. But again, I was not there so they could have been creatively edited. I was concerned over her saying that various sinners could be legitimately killed (homosexuals, adulterers) because whilst there is parts of the qu'ran that would support that, there is also parts that support forgiveness and giving sinners a chance to repent. From what I saw (again could be creative editing) she did not qualify that.

I guess, from my understanding of British law and society, is that 'our' (ie British, not Islamic) laws have a basis in Christianity. The average Brit would not appreciate that because the average Brit is not a card carrying Christian. Most Brit's would say they are nominally Christian, but in reality they are not and have never, at any time in their life, studied Christianity or read the Bible enough to understand its teachings. They are as a result susceptible to manipulative WASP press (white, anglo saxon, protestant) who creatively edit things like the C4 programme. However they are not the only ones, every day in my life and the region that I live in, I see young men (and women) who come from good Muslim families, who by naivety become separated from their children and do not know what their children do when they leave the home. There are young men (mainly young men, but young women too) whose origins are on the Indian sub continent, and have been born in the UK and whose parents are Muslims. Some of these young men (and women) are only observing Muslims in their homes and on Friday's at the masjid. Whose fault is that? Is it society's, their parents, their own? Often these are the ones who are most at risk of being manipulated.

The problem, from both sides is complex. It IS possible to be born in the UK (or any western country) and be Islamic and lead a life by the teachings of the Qu'ran but to do that you must be open minded to the west and the east. To leave a life in the folds of Islam and within the UK law is possible in the UK but takes understanding and open mindedness. If you shut yourself off then you are at risk of either the BNP, or those that seek to manipulate the next generation of Muslims.

 

[Ishbah]

To leave a life in the folds of Islam and within the UK law is possible in the UK but takes understanding and open mindedness. If you shut yourself off then you are at risk of either the BNP, or those that seek to manipulate the next generation of Muslims.

EEEK! That should be to 'LIVE a life'. That shows me to post without previewing!!!! :-[

 

[Thinker]

However, to all non-muslims no one can make a fair minded judgement from this one sided and inaccurate documentary about Islam that was produced by the vomit factory known as Channel 4 to an unaware and pre-conditioned public. Any sound minded person can see that these documentaries are biased against Islam and Muslim, edited and prepared by foolish journalists to incite hatred and enmity towards Islam and Muslims.

OK - lets take it step by step - the lady said that Islamic literature commands that apostates should be killed - is that true - does Islamic literature say that apostates should be killed?

 

['Abd-al Latif]

OK - lets take it step by step - the lady said that Islamic literature commands that apostates should be killed - is that true - does Islamic literature say that apostates should be killed?

Al-Bukhaari (6922) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, put him to death.”

 

[doorster]

Al-Bukhaari (6922) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, put him to death.”

context please or it looks real bad or dare I say a distortion.


The types of apostasy
Faizah

​

Death Penalty for Apostasy in Islam
Michael

​

Apostasy in Christianity.
Light of Heaven

​

Islam and Apostasy
Ansar Al-'Adl

​

Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times
Abu Zakariya

 

['Abd-al Latif]

context please or it looks real bad or dare I say a distortion.


The types of apostasy
Faizah



Death Penalty for Apostasy in Islam
Michael


Apostasy in Christianity.
Light of Heaven


Islam and Apostasy
Ansar Al-'Adl


Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times
Abu Zakariya

How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Messenger was true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.

(As for) these, their reward is that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and of men, all together.

Abiding in it; their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be respited.

Except those who repent after that and amend, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray.

[Surah al-'Imran 3:86-90]

 

[Amadeus85]

Any sound minded person can see that these documentaries are biased against Islam and Muslim, edited and prepared by foolish journalists to incite hatred and enmity towards Islam and Muslims.

Trust me that the most responsible for creating dislike to Islam in Europe are (except terrorists who use your religion) those preachers of hatred and totalitarism, who must be expelled from this continent for our and your good.

Islam preaches the peaceful message that it always has but know that islam is not like other religions, if you slap a Muslim in the face don't expect him to offer you the other cheek. If a Muslim is slapped in the face he will slap you back hard.

Obviously in some european mosques the message is not really peaceful and this is the problem shown in documentary.

 

[Ishbah]

context please or it looks real bad or dare I say a distortion.


The types of apostasy
Faizah

​

Death Penalty for Apostasy in Islam
Michael

​

Apostasy in Christianity.
Light of Heaven

​

Islam and Apostasy
Ansar Al-'Adl

​

Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times
Abu Zakariya

My point is that it says a similar thing in the Bible; I cannot remember the exact chapter and verse. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it said similar in the Torah, all three holy books have many, many similar passages.

British law (and often morals and sense of justice) is based on Christianity, therefore has its bases in Biblical law. However the British public, as whole, do not have the Christian religious knowledge to see why this is, or that Christianity, Islam and Judaism have so many similarities over contentious issues and therefore would be offended by the teachings displayed on the C4 show tonight. Surely, none of us can be surprised by this?

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Trust me that the most responsible for creating dislike to Islam in Europe are (except terrorists who use your religion) those preachers of hatred and totalitarism, who must be expelled from this continent for our and your good.

Obviously in some european mosques the message is not really peaceful and this is the problem shown in documentary.

Have you ever met these preachers? Or have you only ever heard of them on TV? I've been a muslim all my life and I must admit i'm still to meet one of them.

 

[Abu Muslim]

The "extremist" with the big beard who quoted the hadeeth about jews fighting with Muslims, ya know shaykh Feiz. He's on Dhikrullah forums and also runs classes on it

http://www.dhikrullah.com/forum

opps, did I say that too loud hehe.

 

[Fazl Ahmad]

Trust me that the most responsible for creating dislike to Islam in Europe are (except terrorists who use your religion) those preachers of hatred and totalitarism, who must be expelled from this continent for our and your good.

If Britain and Europe truly is a secular region of the world, than why are they interfering in the private affairs of a masjid and Muslim community. Don't Muslims have the right to preach and learn about their religion without the government or media harrassing them? For example, in the documentary, many of the things which their "preachers" were preaching were straight quotes from Quran or Hadith. One man was saying that during the akhr az zaman (end times), when Eesa (alaihi salam) will return to this world, there will be a great battle against the Dajjal and his followers (70 thousand jews), and the Muslims will defeat them. During the battle, even the trees will speak and tell the Muslims the hidden location of the Jews. This is what our religion teaches, and we have a right to know it. Imagine if the media infiltrated a church which was preaching about the apocalypse and the book of revelation, which says that there will also be a great war in the future when Jesus comes back. Jesus himself will do a lot of killing, and his robes will be soaked in blood. Imagine if the media makes a documentary saying a fundamentalist christian church is preaching hate and violence?!

 

[Thinker]

Don't Muslims have the right to preach and learn about their religion . . . . . many of the things which their "preachers" were preaching were straight quotes from Quran or Hadith. . . . This is what our religion teaches, and we have a right to know it.

I think the short answer is NO (and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong).

In the UK you it is illegal to preach hatred, violence and intolerance to other races or religions.

It is against the law to suggest that someone should kill someone for any reason.

It is against the law to suggest that someone should stone or lash someone for any reason.

It is against the law to teach people to hate another section of society who are a different race or religion.

It is not against the law to teach people that you should not take a particular race or religious group as your 'friends' but it isn't doing a lot to endear the local population twoards Muslims.

 

[Thinker]

The preacher in the documentary said that the Qur’an forbade Muslims from taking non Muslims as friends.

In an earlier post a link was left suggesting the answer. That link is

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

The verse quoted is:
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.]

The reply given is:
In his response to the question, Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, President of the Fiqh Council ofNorth America, states:
The Qur'an does not say that non-Muslims cannot be Muslims' friends, nor does it forbid Muslims to be friendly to non-Muslims. There are many non-Muslims who are good friends of Muslim individuals and the Muslim community. There are also many good Muslims who truly and sincerely observe their faith and are very friendly to many non-Muslims at the same time.

The subtle point here is – what is the difference between friendly and friend. The reply suggests that Muslims can be friendly towards non Muslims but there is a difference between being ‘friendly towards someone and being their friend.

 

[Thinker]

Al-Bukhaari (6922) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, put him to death.”

I don't know if it says something similar in the Bible or any other book and I don't care, wherever it is said it must be condemned. A leading Muslim cleric should go public and condemn the quoted verse. Why isn’t that happening?

 

[Thinker]

AND, I'd like to know how those two women got into the country, what they are doing here and why they aren't being deported?

 

[doorster]

call the Home Office and ask them! you keep confusing us with people in charge of UK

 

[Fazl Ahmad]

A leading Muslim cleric should go public and condemn the quoted verse

Thinker this is sacred month of Ramadan, please dont talk bad about the Holy Quran or hadith of Prophet Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam). If you have problem with our religion you are on the wrong board.

 

[Thinker]

And then there was the young girl who, with pencil poised over her notebook, asked “and after he is thrown from the mountain must he be stoned to death?”

It was like she was asking about a recipe to make a cake or like she was anticipating some futures question in her Islamic studies GCSE like:

Your next door neighbour announces that he is homosexual, do you:

(a) take him to a high mountain and throw him off;
(b) stone him to death;
(c) take him to a high mountain and throw him off and then stone him to death.

I was waiting for the follow up question – “if he’s already dead after he’s been thrown from the mountain must we still stone him?”

Skye Ephémérine help me out on this, you’re good at answering hard questions.

 

[Thinker]

Thinker this is sacred month of Ramadan, please dont talk bad about the Holy Quran or hadith of Prophet Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam). If you have problem with our religion you are on the wrong board.

I am not a Muslim but as Ramadan is a time when Muslims are called upon to re-evaluate their lives, to make peace with those who have wronged you, to strengthen ties with family and friends and to do away with bad habits, it seems like the right time to destroy and false accusations made against Islamic teachings.

I strive, in all my postings not to offend anybody but I can't accept that asking legitimate questions should be regarded as offensive.