Christian Trinity and Muslim's Tauwheed [monotheism] = Same God? A Clarification.

Eric H said:
not able to pray and work alongside non- Christians at the moment.
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The reason for Muslims not joining Christians in prayer is that Protestants pray "in the name of Jesus", Catholics pray "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit", while Muslims pray "in the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate". I am afraid that you don't see the distinction that I see, but Muslims don't associate others with Allah in prayer.

I suppose when you say work, that you mean charitable activities. From my perspective, Christian charities are almost always associated with "spreading the Gospel" which is something that Muslims can't support.
 
Eric H said:
Greetings and peace be with you all,

I am a Catholic and find it a great sense of joy working and praying with Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists and others. We encourage each other when we go out into the community as Street Pastors, trying to bring a little peace into our community.

I find it a sadness that we are not able to pray and work alongside non- Christians at the moment.

I have no further comments as to how I pray as a Catholic, I search for a relationship with God and my neighbours, whoever they may be.

Blessings and peace be with you all

Eric
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I love and admire your sincere faith, Eric.

God bless. :)
 
Fazl Ahmad said:
Mary is dead and her body has mingled with dust. Nevermind answering prayers, she does not even have the power to hear them.
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RoseGold said:
That is my point. People seem to be missing it :D
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We don't miss it. That's an Islamic view. One that we Christians don't happen to share. While we agree Mary's body is dust, that doesn't mean that Mary is dead and exists no more.

We believe that deceased Christians having received eternal life as a gift of God are in fact still very much alive; in fact, they are more alive than they have ever been before. We don't believe that there is such a wide gulf between the physical world and the spiritual world that there is not intermingling of them. Again, we believe just the opposite.

We believe that the Holy Spirit is a divine presence in our lives so that we don't wait till after death to meet God, but that God comes and enters into our lives in the here and now. We believe that when we are "saved" that we are born again into a new and eternal life granted us in Father in the power of the mysterious union we have with him through the Son. So, we have already entered into this life now through faith and need not wait till we die to experience eternity. As such, death is just the slipping off of this mortal coil. The body is not us any more than the clothes we wear are us. And we we are freed of it, and thus when we are released of it we are freed to live in ways we have yet to experience in this more restricted physical experience of life. We see beyond the flesh to the spiritual side of life all the time, so why would not someone who has already experienced that not be just as alive as before. As I said before, they actually are more so.
 
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RoseGold said:
^^ A human's typical denial and fear of death.
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I thought Muslims believed in the resurrection as well. While you believe that the time between death and the resurrection is spent in a state of non-existence moldering in the grave. We simply see God as being greater than that. That since he created us first and foremost as spiritual beings, that there is no limit to the life that God can give us, both in this present world and in the world to come.

Funny, how the Muslim call to prayer proclaim's God's greatness, but Muslims continually back off from allowing God to exercise that power beyond what the limits of their own imagination.
 
Grace Seeker said:
I thought Muslims believed in the resurrection as well. While you believe that the time between death and the resurrection is spent in a state of non-existence moldering in the grave. We simply see God as being greater than that. That since he created us first and foremost as spiritual beings, that there is no limit to the life that God can give us, both in this present world and in the world to come.

Funny, how the Muslim call to prayer proclaim's God's greatness, but Muslims continually back off from allowing God to exercise that power beyond what the limits of their own imagination.
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Oh rubbish!

Listen, your giving humans a way to still be connected to this life. refusing to let it go.
 
Grace Seeker said:
I thought Muslims believed in the resurrection as well. While you believe that the time between death and the resurrection is spent in a state of non-existence moldering in the grave. We simply see God as being greater than that. That since he created us first and foremost as spiritual beings, that there is no limit to the life that God can give us, both in this present world and in the world to come.

Funny, how the Muslim call to prayer proclaim's God's greatness, but Muslims continually back off from allowing God to exercise that power beyond what the limits of their own imagination.
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Going along with this imagination idea, wouldnt it be even greater if God had a daughter too? or that God had brothers and sisters ( ala Hinduism) who were seperate yet one? Or maybe a Pantheon of ones for each element?

Our imagination follows what God told us and stays away from what God has forbidden us from. I will not try to imagine God crying or feeling depressed like a human any more than him having a son or a 3 in one personality.

You are using imagination as a defense for Christian belief. I agree though, your beliefs did spawn from the imagination of mislead scholars and priests.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
Going along with this imagination idea, wouldnt it be even greater if God had a daughter too? or that God had brothers and sisters ( ala Hinduism) who were seperate yet one? Or maybe a Pantheon of ones for each element?

Our imagination follows what God told us and stays away from what God has forbidden us from. I will not try to imagine God crying or feeling depressed like a human any more than him having a son or a 3 in one personality.

You are using imagination as a defense for Christian belief. I agree though, your beliefs did spawn from the imagination of mislead scholars and priests.
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Yes, and our imagination follows what God told us and we do indeed stay away from what God has forbidden us. You used the word "imagination" in a form Grace Seeker didn't intend. Imagination wasn't a defense of Christian belief, it was response to the idea that God is limited in the ways in which He can interact with His creation.
 
Keltoi said:
Yes, and our imagination follows what God told us and we do indeed stay away from what God has forbidden us. You used the word "imagination" in a form Grace Seeker didn't intend. Imagination wasn't a defense of Christian belief, it was response to the idea that God is limited in the ways in which He can interact with His creation.
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That is exactly what I am talking about. God has expressly told us the ways he would not interact with His creation. Obviously He would not come down and start a family with us, but not so obviously for Christians, He will not send some sort of son to take our sins up for us when he has sent Prophets before and when he forgave sins himself before.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
He will not send some sort of son to take our sins up for us when he has sent Prophets before and when he forgave sins himself before.
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That's another thing I don't get. How is it fair that "God's son" dies for lowly humans' sins? Can a christian please answer :)
 
RoseGold said:
That's another thing I don't get. How is it fair that "God's son" dies for lowly humans' sins? Can a christian please answer :)
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I think that deserves another topic but for now, it seems like we have reached some sort of end to this thread. Muslim monotheism is different than Christian monotheism.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
That is exactly what I am talking about. God has expressly told us the ways he would not interact with His creation. Obviously He would not come down and start a family with us, but not so obviously for Christians, He will not send some sort of son to take our sins up for us when he has sent Prophets before and when he forgave sins himself before.
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How ironic, Christians don't believe God would come down and start a family with us either.

As for sin, God is the ultimate judge of sin. That hasn't changed. What has changed is that through the mercy of God, incarnate as Jesus Christ, that taint of sin has been forgiven. God will still judge all of us, but now we have the opportunity to exist eternally in Heaven. Even if we don't deserve it. In Christian belief, none of us can do enough to deserve it. Christ accomplished that for us.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
I think that deserves another topic but for now, it seems like we have reached some sort of end to this thread. Muslim monotheism is different than Christian monotheism.
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I guess you're right there lol. Maybe we should get back on topic... though we're never going to agree so if we're all done ranting mayber we should close the thread...:?
 
RoseGold said:
That's another thing I don't get. How is it fair that "God's son" dies for lowly humans' sins? Can a christian please answer :)
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How is it fair? It was an act of mercy. As Muslims routinely point out, God is full of mercy. Also, to God, we are much more than "lowly humans".
 
Keltoi said:
How is it fair? It was an act of mercy. As Muslims routinely point out, God is full of mercy. Also, to God, we are much more than "lowly humans".
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You misunderstood what I was asking :) But that's another topic for another thread :)
 
Keltoi said:
How is it fair? It was an act of mercy. As Muslims routinely point out, God is full of mercy. Also, to God, we are much more than "lowly humans".
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We are certainly his preferred creation with many blessings but totally separate. He is full of mercy but doesn't need a sacrifice of his "son who is him at the same time" to forgive. How does he do that without "sacrificing Jesus on the cross for us"?? Use your imagination!!!!!
 
AntiKarateKid said:
We are certainly his preferred creation with many blessings but totally separate. He is full of mercy but doesn't need a sacrifice of his "son who is him at the same time" to forgive. How does he do that without "sacrificing Jesus on the cross for us"?? Use your imagination!!!!!
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God had demanded atonement for sin since the beginning, starting with Genesis. As a God of justice, He cannot simply ignore sin and pretend it doesn't exist or that it isn't an offense to Him. God doesn't "need" sacrifice as atonement, but that is indeed what He prescribed to the Jewish people as atonement for sin. Only a perfect sacrifice could achieve forgiveness for the sins of the entire world. The ultimate atonement.
 

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