Christin Missionary Against Islam

[Phil12123]

In my younger days traveling throughout the mid-east I was not Muslim and during the early period I was pretty much a bible thumping Christian. I was never approached by anyone to become Muslim. Although I could not speak openly of Christianity, I could in the privacy of my home or friends home. Plus there were many open Christian Churches. I've attended Catholic masses openly in Morocco, Algeria, and several other Mediterranian region countries. Of course I was quite young then as in my early 20s I became essentialy agnostic. But, I never had a Muslim attempt to get me to revert to Islam.

Woodrow, maybe I'm the only one, but I find stories like yours very interesting --- how and why you became a Muslim, from whatever you were before that, to the point where you decided Islam was the right religion, etc. I guess that would be your "testimony." Do you suppose that would be an interesting thread to start--- people giving a short synopsis of why and how they came to believe what they believe, whether Muslim or Christian or Sikh or whatever? I just find it fascinating how people came to their faith, and why they feel they now have "the truth" and thereby feel fulfilled or whatever. And it wouldn't be a thread where, after telling such a story, anyone would need to defend it. No arguments, just stories.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Perhaps because they didn't care about your western kafir butt. Just a kafir, let him perish.
Just a thought. Any chance that this had something to do with it?

There is always a chance of that anything may be.

Perhaps that could be true. However, my memories of those days are very pleasant and I was never treated with anything except courtesy. I was often treated much as a family member.

 

[Woodrow]

Woodrow, maybe I'm the only one, but I find stories like yours very interesting --- how and why you became a Muslim, from whatever you were before that, to the point where you decided Islam was the right religion, etc. I guess that would be your "testimony." Do you suppose that would be an interesting thread to start--- people giving a short synopsis of why and how they came to believe what they believe, whether Muslim or Christian or Sikh or whatever? I just find it fascinating how people came to their faith, and why they feel they now have "the truth" and thereby feel fulfilled or whatever. And it wouldn't be a thread where, after telling such a story, anyone would need to defend it. No arguments, just stories.

Peace

Actually somewhere around here I did such a post on a thread. Perhaps I can find it and wake it up.

 

[Phil12123]

As for the issue about christians preaching to muslims , well my friend if we are truely living in a christian theological country today and I go and preach islam God knows what will happen to me. Remember your nemesis churches back in the mid evil times ? and this was applied to christians who went againt their own trinitarian theology . What of the world we live today?

The world today is not like the middle ages or medieval times. Today, at least in the West, you as a Muslim can preach all you want to anyone you want. Many may ignore you but no one would arrest you. Not so, unfortuately, in Muslim countries where they have no freedom of religion to spread the truth if it disagrees with the official state religion of Islam.

Now lets try to see is it truely forbidden to preach christianity in islamic countries ??? Well churches exist almost in all arab countries , christians from old times (coptic and mormons) also live aside muslims ? thus lets say there is a muslim who was interested in the preachings of christianity well the christian brothers will be there to help him.

But how many Islamic countries encourage such preaching? There are absolutely NO churches in Saudi Arabia and NO freedom to preach anything but Islam. In many countries like that, the constitution gives Islam favored status and may even prohibit any proselytizing. And in some (most? all?) Islamic countries it is a crime to convert from Islam to Christianity punishable by death.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Woodrow, maybe I'm the only one, but I find stories like yours very interesting --- how and why you became a Muslim, from whatever you were before that, to the point where you decided Islam was the right religion, etc. I guess that would be your "testimony." Do you suppose that would be an interesting thread to start--- people giving a short synopsis of why and how they came to believe what they believe, whether Muslim or Christian or Sikh or whatever? I just find it fascinating how people came to their faith, and why they feel they now have "the truth" and thereby feel fulfilled or whatever. And it wouldn't be a thread where, after telling such a story, anyone would need to defend it. No arguments, just stories.

Peace

I believe my short story would be in line with the topic here, mostly to show that my reversion was not the result of anyone preaching Islam to me.

I did not revert until I was 65 years old. I knew very much about Islam, in a scholastic manner for many years. But, I never saw what it meant until I was 65.

I was born in a very good Christian home. Did everything in line with the teachings of the Church. I felt very close to God(swt) and had accepted Jesus(pbuh) as my personal savior.

When I reached my mid twenties, I still loved God(swt) but I no longer agreed with the teachings of the Church. I became, an Agnostic calling myself Buddhist, not so much as a religion, but rather as a philosophy of life.

I was very blessed with having the opportunity to pursue a very good academic life. One of my Favorite studies was languages. I also was very much interested in Philosophy and Comparative Religions. My undergraduate days were actualy in a Seminary.

My first career was as an USAF Combat Pilot. After being severly injured my Military career came to an early end. I then pursued mechanical engineering and ended up working as a Draftsman (Draughtsman for the old spelling). During that time I also continued my education torn between Biology and Psychology. I also had the opportunity to do considerable traveling. Lived in quite a few different places. I kept my interest in Languages and pursued the Arabic Language. During that time I did manage to get a copy of the Qur'an all in Arabic. I used it as a means to develope my Arabic skills. I was also interested in reading it as an informational source about Islam.

Well during the years I had 3 Children 2 girls and a son. The two Girls were interested in the Arabic Language. At an early age they reverted to Islam. My grandchildren were all born Muslim. So, I had contact with Muslims. But, I still felt it was not what I was seeking.

When I was 63 years old I ran into some very difficult times. My wife passed away unexpectadly. I became severly ill with a very poor prognosis. I had not had any close contact with my children for nearly 15 years.

In the year or so after loosing my wife I had made a few bad business investments and was about to loose my farm. My outlook appeared to be that very soon I was to loose all and spend the remainder of my days as an invalid in a nursing home.


Finaly one day when I was 65 years old I decided to brush up on my language skills by reading the Qur'an again. For some reason, it looked different. I was not looking at it as a scholar, I was FEELING it, I do not know how long or how many times I read it in the next day or two. But, then I knew, I had to say the Shahadah, I said it to Allah(swt) immediatly. I was instantly filled with a warm glow and a sense of reassurance that all would be alright. I had been living as a recluse for several months and now I felt the overwhelming comfort of the presense of love surrounding me. I did not even know if there were any Mosques in Texas and did not know any Muslims. The next day I met a Muslim, he told me of a mosque 60 miles away. That Friday I repeated the Shahadah at the Masjid.

For those who have read my story before, I added a bit more about my life at that time.

 

[Phil12123]

I believe my short story would be in line with the topic here, mostly to show that my reversion was not the result of anyone preaching Islam to me.

I did not revert until I was 65 years old. I knew very much about Islam, in a scholastic manner for many years. But, I never saw what it meant until I was 65.

I was born in a very good Christian home. Did everything in line with the teachings of the Church. I felt very close to God(swt) and had accepted Jesus(pbuh) as my personal savior.

When I reached my mid twenties, I still loved God(swt) but I no longer agreed with the teachings of the Church. I became, an Agnostic calling myself Buddhist, not so much as a religion, but rather as a philosophy of life.

I was very blessed with having the opportunity to pursue a very good academic life. One of my Favorite studies was languages. I also was very much interested in Philosophy and Comparative Religions. My undergraduate days were actualy in a Seminary.

My first career was as an USAF Combat Pilot. After being severly injured my Military career came to an early end. I then pursued mechanical engineering and ended up working as a Draftsman (Draughtsman for the old spelling). During that time I also continued my education torn between Biology and Psychology. I also had the opportunity to do considerable traveling. Lived in quite a few different places. I kept my interest in Languages and pursued the Arabic Language. During that time I did manage to get a copy of the Qur'an all in Arabic. I used it as a means to develope my Arabic skills. I was also interested in reading it as an informational source about Islam.

Well during the years I had 3 Children 2 girls and a son. The two Girls were interested in the Arabic Language. At an early age they reverted to Islam. My grandchildren were all born Muslim. So, I had contact with Muslims. But, I still felt it was not what I was seeking.

When I was 63 years old I ran into some very difficult times. My wife passed away unexpectadly. I became severly ill with a very poor prognosis. I had not had any close contact with my children for nearly 15 years.

In the year or so after loosing my wife I had made a few bad business investments and was about to loose my farm. My outlook appeared to be that very soon I was to loose all and spend the remainder of my days as an invalid in a nursing home.


Finaly one day when I was 65 years old I decided to brush up on my language skills by reading the Qur'an again. For some reason, it looked different. I was not looking at it as a scholar, I was FEELING it, I do not know how long or how many times I read it in the next day or two. But, then I knew, I had to say the Shahadah, I said it to Allah(swt) immediatly. I was instantly filled with a warm glow and a sense of reassurance that all would be alright. I had been living as a recluse for several months and now I felt the overwhelming comfort of the presense of love surrounding me. I did not even know if there were any Mosques in Texas and did not know any Muslims. The next day I met a Muslim, he told me of a mosque 60 miles away. That Friday I repeated the Shahadah at the Masjid.

For those who have read my story before, I added a bit more about my life at that time.

Very interesting. Couple questions, if you don't mind. By reversion, do you mean "conversion"? When you accepted Jesus as your personal savior, were you very young and yet understanding what that meant, and do you still consider Him to be your personal savior?

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Very interesting. Couple questions, if you don't mind. By reversion, do you mean "conversion"? When you accepted Jesus as your personal savior, were you very young and yet understanding what that meant, and do you still consider Him to be your personal savior?

Peace

I consider it a reversion not a conversion, not in the sense you probably consider conversion. I believe I was always a Muslim but had converted to other beliefs. When I reverted I had returned to what I always was. You will quite often hear reverts from Christianity say it is a feeling very much like returning home after a long absence.

I was 12 years old when I accepted Christ(as). I truly believed he was my key to heaven and that He(as) had given me all I needed. I searched much of my life trying to learn what He(as) wanted me to do to serve Him(as). I still have deep love for Him(as). I finaly realised that His(as) original message was how we were to Submit to God(swt) and it is God(swt) who is the only one who can forgive us of our sins and reward us in heaven.

 

[avk]

The world today is not like the middle ages or medieval times. Today, at least in the West, you as a Muslim can preach all you want to anyone you want. Many may ignore you but no one would arrest you. Not so, unfortuately, in Muslim countries where they have no freedom of religion to spread the truth if it disagrees with the official state religion of Islam.

Yes I agree totally to that however , you did not seem to get my point and diveresed away. Im saying is the world of the west today are not practicing christian laws in their judical systems (their govermental system) they are practicing secular system. If they were truely practicing a christian system or a christian state then we would have a different type of goverment other than Bush administration or Blairs office. Today in the US , strip clubs are allowed (against the bible) and prostitution allowed(also goes against christian judical laws) these are simple examples that the US is not truely practicing the christian law. Now lets look back through history at an era which did practice a christian state, i.e. the church.
The church were always specificying how they are the deciples and sons of god and how theier system must be practicied as civil law and govermental law. So lets look at how they used to apply these laws.
They used to follow the bible and at the same time anyone who would go against their teachings (apostates) would be killed. In a point of history in that time many christians argued against the tirinitarian system and were slaughetered in masses by the church.
So now lets say America today wants to follow the christian system 100% unlike what its doing today , then If I as a muslim go and preach my religion I WOULD BE SLAUGHTERED by the church because im going against their beleif. Thus your faith my friend does not tolerate other religions , and dont say United states because US is not a fully christian land or country thats why its ok for muslims to preach there not because your religion is tolerant.

 

[ACC]

I believe it is going to be a local issue more than an Islamic issue. In my younger days traveling throughout the mid-east I was not Muslim and during the early period I was pretty much a bible thumping Christian. I was never approached by anyone to become Muslim. Although I could not speak openly of Christianity, I could in the privacy of my home or friends home. Plus there were many open Christian Churches. I've attended Catholic masses openly in Morocco, Algeria, and several other Mediterranian region countries. Of course I was quite young then as in my early 20s I became essentialy agnostic. But, I never had a Muslim attempt to get me to revert to Islam.

This still has not answered the original question. Do you believe that if there is a penalty for Christians attempting to convert Muslims, then should the same penalty apply for Muslims attempting to convert Christians?

 

[Woodrow]

This still has not answered the original question. Do you believe that if there is a penalty for Christians attempting to convert Muslims, then should the same penalty apply for Muslims attempting to convert Christians?

Perhaps a clearer answer from me would be my personal thoughts. I believe prostelyzing any religion is wrong. I do not believe it is right for any body to go door to door in an attempt to convert anyone. I believe that if a person desires to promote their religion it should be done through the actions of how they live. They should be available to answer question asked and know enough about their religion to answer basic questions.

Now about punishments or rewards for anyone trying to convert others, that should be between them and God(SWT).

On a personal basis I do not believe a non-Muslim should be prosecuted for trying to convert Muslims. They do so out of ignorance and should be forgiven.

But I do believe that in an Islamic Country any Muslim who converts to any other belief should be prosecuted for treason. This is because there is no seperation from Church and State, to go against one is to go against both.


Now to better explain what my personal belief is. It would be easier to do so with an analogy. If a Catholic Priest were to into a Baptist church carrying a large Statue of Mary, the pastor of the Church would be within his rights to ask him to not bring the Statue in or not enter the Church. I believe once he steps foot into the Church it would be acceptable for the Pastor and the members to try to convert him. It would be acceptable for him to be forbidden to convert any member to Catholochism while in the Church and it would be acceptable to excommunicate any members the Priest did convert to Catholochism.

So it is when a non-Muslim enters an Islamic Country. They are not entering into just a country. They are entering into the Place of worship. They are Guests in the Muslim's Mosque.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

" Because the West has been influenced by biblical teachings, there is an assumption that all religions want peace, but clearly that is not true where Islam is concerned."
In other words, Westerners are very peaceloving people in the world, because of the influence of the bible teachings, but The Muslims on the contarary, war loving fellows, because of the Quranic teachings.For he writes

People by nature are very ethnocentric.

People that preach Islam as being a terrorist religion are making uneducated bias conclusions.

As people become educated on different cultures, they become more understanding and their conclusions become less biased. So, in my opinion, education is the key to understanding.

Since 9/11 Muslims have been looked at as “bad” from some people in western counties. However, more and more people are becoming educated in Islam because of this focus on Muslims. So, though, more people feel a sort of unfriendliness towards Muslims, there seems to be an equilibrium effect going on because more people are becoming very understanding. I wouldn’t be surprised if in 20 years or so, most of the western world would be very understanding of the Islamic way.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

Ummm? Deleting this post

 

[ACC]

Perhaps a clearer answer from me would be my personal thoughts. I believe prostelyzing any religion is wrong. I do not believe it is right for any body to go door to door in an attempt to convert anyone. I believe that if a person desires to promote their religion it should be done through the actions of how they live. They should be available to answer question asked and know enough about their religion to answer basic questions.

Now about punishments or rewards for anyone trying to convert others, that should be between them and God(SWT).

On a personal basis I do not believe a non-Muslim should be prosecuted for trying to convert Muslims. They do so out of ignorance and should be forgiven.

But I do believe that in an Islamic Country any Muslim who converts to any other belief should be prosecuted for treason. This is because there is no seperation from Church and State, to go against one is to go against both.


Now to better explain what my personal belief is. It would be easier to do so with an analogy. If a Catholic Priest were to into a Baptist church carrying a large Statue of Mary, the pastor of the Church would be within his rights to ask him to not bring the Statue in or not enter the Church. I believe once he steps foot into the Church it would be acceptable for the Pastor and the members to try to convert him. It would be acceptable for him to be forbidden to convert any member to Catholochism while in the Church and it would be acceptable to excommunicate any members the Priest did convert to Catholochism.

So it is when a non-Muslim enters an Islamic Country. They are not entering into just a country. They are entering into the Place of worship. They are Guests in the Muslim's Mosque.

Fair response. I would be lying if I said I agreed with you, but I suspect that you already knew that.

For myself I think that people should be allowed to attempt to convert whoever they want, regardless of what religion is doing the preaching. I was taught that if you want to prove that your belief is the truth, then you should welcome all challengers.

One massive fundamental difference between Christian and therefore Western nations and Islamic nations is the seperation of Church and state. This is a massive difference that I doubt will be resolved easily, or peacefully for that matter in the future.

 

[Woodrow]

Fair response. I would be lying if I said I agreed with you, but I suspect that you already knew that.

For myself I think that people should be allowed to attempt to convert whoever they want, regardless of what religion is doing the preaching. I was taught that if you want to prove that your belief is the truth, then you should welcome all challengers.

One massive fundamental difference between Christian and therefore Western nations and Islamic nations is the seperation of Church and state. This is a massive difference that I doubt will be resolved easily, or peacefully for that matter in the future.

And your response is also fair and understandable. There is no law that says we need to agree, on many issues we may never agree. But we can always agree to disagree peacefully.

Yes, we do have many differences and most of them will not be resolved. However, we can all learn we do have differences and we each have a right to our differences.

I can understand, how for a non-Muslim, our desire for no seperation between Church and State is a problem.

It is difficult for a non-Muslim to comprehend our concept that there is no stand alone Church, all things and all aspects of our life are the Church. A woman washing dishes is as much in prayer as a man prostrating in a Mosque. Laws are not to please us they are to help us serve God(swt). The head of State needs to be more knowledgable in the Qur'an then in treaties.

I may be a bit optomistic, but I believe that to serve God(swt) is for us to live in Peace. Therefore I feel that if we open our minds we will find a means to peacefully resolve our differences.

One reason many Muslims are offended at the intrusion of a non-Muslim attempting to convert us, is because we see our selves as being in prayer, no matter what we do. This is why we begin all things by saying "Bismillallahi ir Rahman ir Raheem" (In the name of God(swt) the Beneficient, the Most Forgiving) We strive to do all things as a prayer to God(swt). The words of someone trying to convert us, is a distraction from our prayers.

 

[Looking4Peace]

I believe my short story would be in line with the topic here, mostly to show that my reversion was not the result of anyone preaching Islam to me.

your story sounds much like mine yet im alot younger, everything from the college majors to religious transitions. This is scary lol

 

[dougmusr]

I have yet to see or hear any Muslim preach to a non-Muslim, except in defence of our belief when responding to preaching from a non-Muslim. I do not know of any Muslim who has ever asked a non-Muslim to become Muslim.

If you feel Islam is true, and you feel its teachings offer hope in life today and the hereafter, why would you not share it with others? Isn't that what the quote below tells you to do? As I Christian, I share the message of Christ with others because that's what He did, and what He told His followers to do.

we have to introduce what islam is, we teach "all men" who is Allah, who is Muhammad. etc with peace.. in Muhammad era there were also Jews and christians in this world but Muhammad not just "fight" them and make them a muslim. We are allowed to fight if non muslim fight us first. Muhammad and his companions always fight after ask them (the non muslim) to be a muslim and give them a good knowledge about Islam.

 

[north_malaysian]

If you feel Islam is true, and you feel its teachings offer hope in life today and the hereafter, why would you not share it with others? Isn't that what the quote below tells you to do? As I Christian, I share the message of Christ with others because that's what He did, and what He told His followers to do.

Most Muslims only preach Islam, when non Muslims ask them something about Islam.

But no worries, many Muslim groups behaving like Christian missionaries today to gain converts. The main country sponsoring these groups are Saudi, Kuwait, Libya, Iran and Malaysia.

 

[Woodrow]

If you feel Islam is true, and you feel its teachings offer hope in life today and the hereafter, why would you not share it with others? Isn't that what the quote below tells you to do? As I Christian, I share the message of Christ with others because that's what He did, and what He told His followers to do.

That is true. Yet I am opposed to prostylization. I feel that the best way to teach others about Islam is to live a life that is in the best manner possible. To be honest to others in replies to their question to try to set an example of what life as a Muslim is like. Then if others desire to know of my beliefs to share them with them. I feel I share through my actions better then I ever could through words. As I speak freely and open of my love of Islam here, I am not imposing myself upon others as people that come to this forum are aware it is a Muslim forum and they should expect that the forum is about Islam and what we believe.

 

[avk]

Al salam aleikom ,
Dear muslims brothers I will always say as muslims we will always have the right to preach our religion.
As for christians well , if you dont beleive that quran is the word of god because it simply tells people that if they dont follow the path of truth they will be facing consequences , this is evidently wrong because the same concept exists in the old testmant which you guys beleive its the word of god.
"Whomever preaches against another god will be stoned to death" so evidently speaking god applied such a law in the old testmant why would he not apply it in islam.

As muslims , Mohammad (SAW) taught us that our message must reach and an islamic state must be in action in order for a muslim community to stand tall.

As christians , Jesus (AS) perfectly said in your new testament , "My kingdom is not of this world , but the next" so this clearly shows how christians teaching dont have to have a christian state.

So christians brothers, if god of the old testament did preach about killing people who preach about another god , why dont you accept it for islam???


PS: Sister Crystal4Peace , sister can you please contact me inshalla I maybe needing for you assistance in a certain matter. Inshalla the best

Al salam aleikom

 

[north_malaysian]

That is true. Yet I am opposed to prostylization..

Why? and what do u think about muslim missionaries today?