Confusing Religions

[AntiKarateKid]

I wish that you would be more calm about this because you are conveying a lot of energy through your keyboard, akhi.

I am not saying that I believe that Christianity is true in its own way and Islam is true in its own way.

I believe that Rasulullah saws taught us the truth about Allah swt and the nature of the world. The message of the Prophet saws is the truth and this belief is what makes me Muslim and my grandmother's non-belief in this is what makes her not a Muslim.

Islam prevails over the other religions and will continue to do so in the future both in committed followers and in population alone. It seems clear that there are more of us striving to pass on our religion to our children and practicing in front of them. This is how I interpret 48:24. It does not mean that it is our duty as Muslims to make sure that Islam is prevailing over other religions in the sense that I should be trying to convert my pious grandmother and tell her that her beliefs are wrong. Of course I think that she would find greater happiness if she reverted because she would be aligning her beliefs with the TRUTH akhi. I commend her because her life looks like Siratal-mustaqim; it is filled with good works. Of course it is not because she doesn't pray like we do and she doesn't confess shahada.

Comparatively, who is better? The one who confesses shahada and then goes on to commit sins and not pray and these things or the one who does not but commits the life to good works and the worship of God in her best understanding? Only Allah knows...


I'm getting angry with you right now akhi, so I have to pause for a moment.

And with respect to the Catholics, they are not the farthest from Islam. They are the ones who believe in the rewards of good works. Among the Catholics I know are the only christians I have met who seek repentance for their sins. They are the ones who do not just move from sin to sin and saying "well, jesus died for forgiveness of my sins." (although I do not hold that all protestants do this, this attitude seems to prevail)


So akhi, why don't you remind us all what it means to be muslim? Why don't you go find your Islamic proofs in spite of my beliefs, or better for the sake of Allah, and come show us all how to be Muslim. I'm just a revert man, what the hell do I know? estaghfirallah, I'm sorry for my anger, but if I perceive your attitude correctly, then I think that you would benefit from changing the way you think.

Give them the benefit of the doubt and love them because they are striving in the path of Allah whether they know it or not.

Hi Khalil,

I had to laugh at the keyboard comment, I didn't mean it to come out like that. LOL.

Anywhoo, alot of times when someone says "we all have different paths to God" they usually follow up with some pluralist ( AKA all religions are equally OK) nonsense.

Thanks for the clarification on your view. I feel that too many people fall into a false pluralist mindset when taking part in interfaith discussions.

I disagree with your Catholicism comments though. Saying " THe catholics I know act more pious than the protestants I know" is.... not the right way to go about these sorts of discussions. THe catholic doctrine is further from Islam than the Protestant one ( catholics have their pope, rituals, cult of saints etc).

My statement about what it means to be Muslim, admittedly, overstepped the boundary and I apologize, I am not well versed in Islam. Other than this, I fail to see why you are getting angry. I merely said she would be even more pious with Islam. I do not expect everyone to see God the same way as in Islam, but that does NOT mean that their action are acceptable. But, like you said, if she is doing good, then she may still be granted heaven. Allah knows best.

Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Day of Judgment, and perform righteous deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve (Quran 2:62, 5:69).

 

[Khalil_Allah]

brother this was very gracious of you to respond so smoothly when I was snapping back like a madman.

Please forgive me for losing my patience, I think we just misunderstood each other, you know? But you are a good man, AKK.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

brother this was very gracious of you to respond so smoothly when I was snapping back like a madman.

Please forgive me for losing my patience, I think we just misunderstood each other, you know? But you are a good man, AKK.

Meh I lost my patience first when I didnt read your post carefully. I beat u too it!

More on topic though, perhaps through interfaith understanding we could eliminate much of the hostile barriers between religions and make the truth more clear.

Whos a better Muslim, the one who knows why he isnt a Jew or Christian or Hindu, or the one who doesnt?

Whos more likely to convert, the person who knows what the Quran and Prophet Muhammad pbuh really stands for or the one who STILL thinks "Moslems" want to kill everyone and worship a moon god?

 

[Khalil_Allah]

And brother, in good spirits now, I shall defend the catholics again! Call me Khalil, defender of the catholics!

They ARE more like us! Standardized ritual prayers? Repent for ALL of your sins, young catholic children are told! They have better religious education systems. Their priests are generally well-educated like our imams.

that's all i got right now

lol stay away from the moon god

 

[AntiKarateKid]

And brother, in good spirits now, I shall defend the catholics again! Call me Khalil, defender of the catholics!

They ARE more like us! Standardized ritual prayers? Repent for ALL of your sins, young catholic children are told! They have better religious education systems. Their priests are generally well-educated like our imams.

that's all i got right now

lol stay away from the moon god

Well well defender... we meet again.

The protestants criticise the cathlolics of worshipping amry and the saints because of their excessive devotions to them. Also, the protestants dont acknowledge a pope too. This seems closer to No God but God

Thats all i got for now.... darn organic chemistry test.

 

[Follower]

Catholics and Protestants hold the same basic beliefs with different ways of celebrating them.

I don't see Muslims as being in unity. Quran only nineteen people shia, sunni, ******, etc.

LOL!! Protestant pope= Billy Graham just joking but he is a great preacher!!

Performing rituals and certain numbers of prayers does not neccessarily prove what is in your heart.

 

[جوري]

great analogy 'follower'
90% of Muslims are sunna can you say that about any sect of christianity?.. how is that for unity.. shiite use the same Quran that sunnis do though interpret it differently.. do catholics use the same book you use?
the rest of the 2% aren't recognized as Muslims, even if they wish to bestow that label upon themselves...

you are right, performing rituals doesn't tell what is in the heart.. I have never found much heart in a bunch of hallaballoos clapping and singing to the organ.. I am not sure where God or Jesus is in all that hooliganism, candles and stain glass --but whatever rocks your world--

if you really want to take that route, I don't think you'll come out a winner!

cheers

 

[Khalil_Allah]

skye you crack me up.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Khalil_Allah; I find your replies very encouraging and helpful.

We all have different paths to God. My grandmother is one of the most pious people I know. If I try to compete with her in doing good works, then I will lose

You do not loose to your grandmother, neither of you looses, and most importantly doing good works is the one that wins.

Can it be possible for Muslims and Christians to not so much compete in doing good deeds, but share good works together?

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship,

Eric

 

[doorster]

Can it be possible for Muslims and Christians to not so much compete in doing good deeds, but share good works together?

perhaps then apathy will set in?

5:48"And We have sent down to you the Book (Quran) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it [FONT=&quot], and guarding it In safety: [/FONT]. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ."
​

http://islamawakened.com/Quran/5/48/

​

 

[Khalil_Allah]

perhaps then apathy will set in?

Holla!

 

[Follower]

Here is what Jesus says on the matter:

Matthew 6
Giving to the Needy
1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

 

[Follower]

Maybe the problem of unity in Islam is following hadith, which are true which are false. I know that all Muslims have diagreement on which ones to follow. Actually why follow any? They are not the word of GOD!! They are history.

All Christians follow the same basic Books of the Holy Bible.

 

[doorster]

Maybe the problem of unity in Islam is following hadith, which are true which are false. I know that all Muslims have diagreement on which ones to follow. Actually why follow any? They are not the word of GOD!! They are history.

All Christians follow the same basic Books of the Holy Bible.

there is a difference between "comparing" your religion with ours and tutoring us on what to or not to follow.

Stop preaching before I say something which will cause some of staff to "punish" [hassle] me

 

[جوري]

Maybe the problem of unity in Islam is following hadith, which are true which are false. I know that all Muslims have diagreement on which ones to follow. Actually why follow any? They are not the word of GOD!! They are history.

All Christians follow the same basic Books of the Holy Bible.

You are so ignorant, shouldn't you educate yourself on Islam before engaging with Muslims on an Islamic forum?

why do you post random quotes from 'whicever' bible?-- I mean what is the point? do you know how to engage in a topic.. or it is about random quotes? then pls let me join in and share a few from the Quran-- a few on charity


:254] O you who believe, you shall give to charity from the provisions we have given to you, before a day comes where there is no trade, no nepotism, and no intercession. The disbelievers are the unjust.

[2:262] Those who spend their money in the cause of GOD, then do not follow their charity with insult or harm, will receive their recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[2:263] Kind words and compassion are better than a charity that is followed by insult. GOD is Rich, Clement.

[2:267] O you who believe, you shall give to charity from the good things you earn, and from what we have produced for you from the earth. Do not pick out the bad therein to give away, when you yourselves do not accept it unless your eyes are closed. You should know that Allah is Rich, Praiseworthy.

[2:270] Any charity you give, or a charitable pledge you fulfill, GOD is fully aware thereof. As for the wicked, they will have no helpers.

[2:272] You are not responsible for guiding anyone. GOD is the only one who guides whoever chooses (to be guided). Any charity you give is for your own good. Any charity you give shall be for the sake of GOD. Any charity you give will be repaid to you, without the least injustice.

[2:273] Charity shall go to the poor who are suffering in the cause of GOD, and cannot emigrate. The unaware may think that they are rich, due to their dignity. But you can recognize them by certain signs; they never beg from the people persistently. Whatever charity you give, GOD is fully aware thereof.

[2:274] Those who give to charity night and day, secretly and publicly, receive their recompense from their Lord; they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[2:277] Those who believe and lead a righteous life, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), they receive their recompense from their Lord; they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[2:280] If the debtor is unable to pay, wait for a better time. If you give up the loan as a charity, it would be better for you, if you only knew.

[3:92] You cannot attain righteousness until you give to charity from the possessions you love. Whatever you give to charity, GOD is fully aware thereof.

[3:134] who give to charity during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. GOD loves the charitable.

[4:38] They give money to charity only to show off, while disbelieving in GOD and the Last Day. If one's companion is the devil, that is the worst companion.

[4:77] Have you noted those who were told, "You do not have to fight; all you need to do is observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat)," then, when fighting was decreed for them, they feared the people as much as they feared GOD, or even more? They said, "Our Lord, why did You force this fighting on us? If only You respite us for awhile!" Say, "The materials of this world are nil, while the Hereafter is far better for the righteous, and you never suffer the slightest injustice."


[Pickthal 2:177] It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing


______________

now, if the bible is the 'word of God' how come you have a thousands of versions and millions of sects?
further your christian counterparts on the forum, highly disagree that your bible (whichever) version is the absolute word of God..
the hilarity of your use of 'history' there is no recorded history of a man/god named Jesus even existing outside of your bible(s) which isn't very credible, given the deplorable state Christianity finds itself in --

in closure, you should go join in on the fun and do some xmas shopping to celebrate the birth of your God while boosting your very ailing economy charging money you don't have on credit cards instead of arguing your nonsense in show of unity and to loan the 'birth of God' some credence-- on the account all your rituals from hand clapping to organ playing are nonsensical...
indeed you are a 'follower' for if you had a functioning brain cell -- you'd work on the gross errors that are at the very crux of your religion before venturing on a debate with another!

 

[جوري]

I thought this was really nice to show the 'unity of Christianity' and I have already listed numerous versions of the bibles here for those interested-- (I am sure they are all correct)

http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Cu...actices/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/

African Methodist Episcopal (1)
African Methodist Episcopal Zion (2)
African Orthodox Church (1)
American Baptist Churches USA (4)
Amish (22)
Anabaptist (4)
Anglican Catholic Church@
Anglican Church (133)
Antiochian Orthodox@
Armenian Evangelical Church (1)
Armenian Orthodox@
Assemblies of God (20)
Associated Gospel Churches of Canada@
Association of Vineyard Churches (5)
Baptist (147)
Baptist Bible Fellowship (2)
Branch Davidian (3)
Brethren in Christ (1)
Bruderhof Communities (10)
Byzantine Catholic Church@
Calvary Chapel (3)
Calvinist (5)
Catholic (1601)
Cell Church (14)
Celtic Orthodox@
Charismatic Episcopal Church (2)
Christadelphian (14)
Christian and Missionary Alliance (4)
Christian Churches of God (1)
Christian Identity (5)
Christian Reformed Church (4)
Christian Science (9)
Church of God (Anderson) (3)
Church of God (Cleveland) (4)
Church of God (Seventh Day) (1)
Church of God in Christ (2)
Church of God of Prophecy (1)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (138)
Church of Scotland@
Church of South India (1)
Church of the Brethren (8)
Church of the Lutheran Brethren of America (2)
Church of the Nazarene (15)
Church of the New Jerusalem (4)
Church of the United Brethren in Christ (2)
Church Universal and Triumphant (3)
Churches of Christ (32)
Churches of God General Conference (5)
Congregational Christian Churches (3)
Coptic Orthodox@
Cumberland Presbyterian Church (1)
Disciples of Christ (12)
Episcopal Church@
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church (4)
Evangelical Congregational Church (4)
Evangelical Covenant Church (1)
Evangelical Formosan Church (1)
Evangelical Free Church (3)
Evangelical Lutheran Church (31)
Evangelical Methodist Church (1)
Evangelical Presbyterian (1)
Family, The (aka Children of God) (8)
Fellowship of Christian Assemblies (1)
Fellowship of Grace Brethren (3)
Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches (2)
Free Church of Scotland (4)
Free Methodist (6)
Free Presbyterian (2)
Free Will Baptist (4)
Gnostic@
Great Commission Association of Churches (2)

Greek Orthodox@
Hutterian Brethren (2)
Independent Fundamental Churches of America (1)
Indian Orthodox@
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel (3)
International Churches of Christ (7)
Jehovah's Witnesses (31)
Living Church of God (7)
Local Church (7)
Lutheran (37)
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (17)
Mar Thoma Syrian Church (7)
Mennonite (23)
Messianic Judaism@
Methodist (16)
Moravian Church (3)
Nation of Yahweh (1)
New Frontiers International (1)
Old Catholic Church@
Orthodox (89)
Orthodox Church in America@
Orthodox Presbyterian (2)
Pentecostal (24)
Plymouth Brethren (4)
Presbyterian (70)
Presbyterian Church (USA) (17)
Presbyterian Church in America (10)
Primitive Baptist (3)
Protestant Reformed Church (9)
Reformed (14)
Reformed Baptist (7)
Reformed Church in America (4)
Reformed Church in the United States (3)
Reformed Churches of Australia@
Reformed Episcopal Church@
Reformed Presbyterian Church (6)
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (5)
Revival Centres International (4)
Romanian Orthodox@
Rosicrucian@
Russian Orthodox@
Serbian Orthodox@
Seventh Day Baptist (4)
Seventh-Day Adventist (49)
Shaker (10)
Society of Friends (38)
Southern Baptist Convention (14)
Spiritist (2)
Syrian Orthodox@
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days (4)
Two-by-Twos (3)
Unification Church (11)
Unitarian-Universalism@
United Church of Canada@
United Church of Christ (14)
United Church of God (3)
United Free Church of Scotland@
United Methodist Church (105)
United Reformed Church (1)
Uniting Church in Australia@
Unity Church (2)
Unity Fellowship Church (2)
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches (2)
Virtual Churches (12)
Waldensian Church (3)
Way International, The (4)
Web Directories (6)
Wesleyan (9)
Wesleyan Methodist@
Worldwide Church of God (5)

 

[Woodrow]

I agree with your first paragraph but must disagree with your second. Yes, our Ummah is an example to every other nation in the world. Nothing comes close to our ethics, prayer, and unity. If we displayed the characteristics of the Prophet pbuh more often, things would be so much better for Muslim and non- Muslim alike.

Religion is more than just a choice of " whatever fits you". If peoples' choice was subjective like that, we wouldnt be punished for choosing the wrong one.

That is true. The closest analogy I can make is one is eating poison and the other is eating healthy food. All any of us can do is show the benefits of a healthy diet and let them decide if the diet they choose is healthy. We can not force people to eat what we believe is healthy.

It is extremely important that we find the TRUTH. It is the only way we will be able to truly please Allah and bring justice to this world. What would happen if choice of religion became as subjective and personal as choosing a favorite movie???

Two different topics. The importance of our religious beliefs results in our choice for eternity. But, we must remember the key is in education, not in hatred of neighbors.

We thank Allah that as Muslims, we have THE truth.

Ameen

 

[Grace Seeker]

I thought this was really nice to show the 'unity of Christianity' and I have already listed numerous versions of the bibles here for those interested-- (I am sure they are all correct)

Your list of "numerous" versions continues not to be different versions, but different translations, just like there are Yusufali, Picthal and Shakir translations of the Qur'an. That list of course goes on and on as well. Does that mean that there are "numerous versiions" of the Qur'an. No, there is only one Qur'an. There is only one Bible as well, but since we don't insist that people must read it in the original tongue, we feel very comfortable in reading it from any of the numerous translations you often post and know that it is still the same* Bible.

* -- I will admit that there is disagreement between various Christian groups as to whether or not the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees should or should not be considered part of the canon. But then there is disagreement between Muslims regarding which Hadith are or are not authentic. Since the Hadith are considered sufficient as a guide to faith and practice (the very definition of what it means if a book is in the biblical canon), it seems both Muslims and Christians are left to ponder why they can't agree amongst themselves as to what does and does not belong in their respective sacred texts.



As for the list of groups you published which you listed as Christian, your definition of Christian is different than mine, for I would not include the following that you listed:

Branch Davidian
Christadelphian
Christian Identity
Christian Science
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Church of the New Jerusalem
Church Universal and Triumphant
Family, The (aka Children of God)
Gnostic
Jehovah's Witnesses
Living Church of God
Local Church
Nation of Yahweh
Rosicrucian
Spiritist
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
Two-by-Twos
Unification Church
Unitarian-Universalism
Unity Church
Unity Fellowship Church
Waldensian Church
Way International, The
Worldwide Church of God


These above are groups that are actually antithetical to Christianity -- declaring that Jesus is not the Christ (hard to be a Christian if you don't accept the Christ), say that Jesus is nothing more than a special enjoy from God, are accepting of all religions as equal, using other revelation subsequent to the Bible as authoritative, deny the value of Jesus sacrifice or the reality of his resurrection, and in other ways seperate themselves off from historic Christianity. Some of them think that it doesn't matter what you believe -- hardly a Christian concept. And others think that they are the only one's who are right and thus deny that anyone else other than them could be Christian -- obviously thereby isolating themselves from the predominant Christian culture as not a part of it. And therefore, given those views and those practices, I do not include them as a part of the mix of denominations and churches (which is a large number) that are Christian.


As for the remaining list, of literally hundreds of Christian bodies from large denominations like the Catholic Church right down to individual community churches, I submit to you that we are one body in Christ just the same as the Ummah views itself as a single community. This is what we mean when even groups like Methodist, Presbyterians, Lutherans and other proclaim "we believe in the holy catholic church". We don't mean Catholic as in the church led by the pope; we are using the term "catholic" in its other sense, meaning universal. We believe that there is one universal church to which all Christians belong, no matter what the name above the door where they happen to worship reads. And this universal Church is composed of many different groups (some you listed and some you didn't) who don't all agree with each other about sources of authority in Christian lives today any more than Sunni and Shia agree about such authorities. Many of these groups have other unique beliefs that are not shared by all other Christians. But the membership of them all (or at least their official teachings) do share a oneness in their understanding of the person and work of Jesus. And that makes us one body in Christ, a universal church, just as unified as the Ummah that I find present here.

(Note: Not being a member of both the Umman and the Church, I can't say for sure that one community is more or less or exactly the same in their "oneness" or "universality" than the other. I'm making my assessment based on what I know of the Church from having been in it for more than half a century, and from the little bit of the Ummah I have experienced in 2 years of being on LI and a little less than a decade of regular intermingling with members of the Ummah in my daily life.)

 

[جوري]

the content of your many bibles differs, I have in fact quoted various paragraphs where it says one thing in one version and another in a different version.. that isn't lost in the translation that is tampered with text.. tampered with text ISN'T the word of God.. the least God can do with text with which he wishes to guide millions is to at least avow to sustain it.. such was accomplished indeed with the Quran... I don't wish to go find old threads to show that again, a mere google can do so, I don't have a strong interest in comparative when there is nothing to compare -- but I do have a strong distaste for bible thumpers who don't even know the content of their own text to take on someone else's

as for which sects you deem heretical or devout, well it doesn't concern me either.. It was aimed at the fellow who seems to see christian unity and textual unity where none in fact exists!


peace

 

[Khalil_Allah]

is everyone showin' some love in here? EEP!