http://www.islamicboard.com/678332-post20.html
don't worry bro. it's just his lack of practicing christianity. if he would be a good christian, he would pracitice the whole concept which evolves around "LOVE of JEsus, love for jesus, love for enemy", but he failed to show us that.
Ok, take it easy on me. I knew nothing about Muslims except the name Allah and Mohammad was associated with Islam when I first posted here. I felt a need for me to learn more about one of the fastest growing religions in the world. I am a Christian. Of course, I cannot accept Islam, but that doesn't mean I don't respect you and try not to offend. Sorry to say, I fail terribly at this. I take responsibility for that, but I would never say your a nut because you misunderstand Christianity. I have mistakes in my understanding about the deepest things in Islam, but you also have severe misconceptions about Christianity. In fact, so did the prophet Muhammad. That being the case, why are we not more tolerant toward one another; after all, we do have the same God. The God of Abraham and the Jews isn't that our God? And we are brothers of humanity. It is inevitable, that we will eventually clash severely, but it behooves us to teach each other the true concepts of what we believe in. I have already learned more than you can probably imagine, but I have a way to go yet. The more I learn about Islam, the more holes I find in your reasoning as well. You have to give me a chance to explain without getting on the defensive. You may not be able to help that because the defense system is built into your religion. That is why it is so difficult to articulate with Muslims especially being a Christian which is the only religion that posses the greatest threat to Muslims. Nevertheless, I have mentioned some of the holes, but this is another: Since you don’t believe in original sin, why do we continue to sin against our own will to do so? And what part does Allah take in our redemption if it is all contingent on our good works out weighting our bad?my dear brother, they usually mixup the word 'different way of readings' to the 'different meaning', and they don';t understand the term 'qiryat'. So that's why the mix up a little bit things
yeah that's the problem, the whole 23 years , she is describing them, with the first act, which nobody knew what was going on.
sometimes I'm thinking about that too, but sometimes I think I just owe to explain things due to their lack of knowledge. cuz it's funny when they make claims about something which they don't understand, but they think that we swallow stuff in Islam, and just say "ohhh i didn't know about that". It's like me going to tell a proffesional pingpong player, that don't throw the ball like this, cuz it spins, do this and that, without me even knowning what all those things mean.
Islam is a religion of peace, but Islam also allowes to fight against oppression.
The trinity didn't exist, it was later introduced, bc the Biblle (Injeel) could not be preserved due to the constant opression of jews at that time, so people had no freedom, so it was not a very good situtation to preserve the bible, and that's why everyone changed it to their own desires.
And do uhave any problem with Jihad? any problems with protecting your own land???
haha, where did you get this?
first, if muslims killed veryone who stood their way, then can you please tell me how come in places like Kosova, Albania there are majority of muslims, but yet in Bulgaria there are majority of christians? while we know the ottomans came through Bulgari to go Balkan? or how come the biggest muslim community is in Indonesia were there was no war with muslims ?? or how come in malaysia the majority are muslims yet there was no war with muslims? also please watch:
When the Moors Ruled Europe
http://video.google.co.uk/url?docid...+ruled&usg=AL29H20WJX2FBvUR35TwXggmIfVtzCHL9A
it's worthy of watching it.
look, whoever saw this statement in this forum, saw it. Don't repeat it again, or people will laugh at you, and you will look completely foolish. I dont' even think I should reply to this thread.
and btw, don't switch the subjectjumping from revelation to wars.
we do sin bc we are not perfect, and also we do sins bc we choose to.
EDIT: This post has been moved to the beginning of the thread.
In order to understand this issue, we need to examine the Islamic law on apostasy. Since religion is looked on as a personal affair in western society, the notion of state intervention in one's personal choice would naturally seem excessive. However, from the Islamic perspective, a number of points must be observed with regard to apostasy:1. Islam has never compelled anyone to accept the religion. Anyone who becomes a Muslim does so purely through objective study of the religion. As Allah has informed us in the Qur'an:So an Islamic state is certainly justified in punishing those who betray the state, committing treason and support enemy forces. As for anyone else, if they do not publicly declare their rejection of Islam, the state has no interest in pursuing them; if their case does become public, however, then they should be reasoned with and educated concerning the religion so that they have the opportunity to learn the concepts they may not have understood properly and they can be encouraged to repent.
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion.
10:99 So would you (O Muhammad) then compel people to become believers?
Likewise, Islam encourages its followers to reflect and contemplate upon the universe around us and to ponder over the beauty of the Qur'anic message:
47:24 Do they not ponder over the Qur'an or are their hearts locked up?
51:20-21. And on earth are signs for those endowed with inner-certainty; and [likewise there are signs] in yourselves, do you not observe?
29:20 Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Thus, Islam requires that one's faith be constructed upon logical investigation and study of the universe in which we live. Through logical contemplation, one realizes the supreme authority of the Creator and the veracity of Muhammad's (saws) claim to prophethood. Thus we find that, in the history of Islam, no knowledgeable Muslim has ever left Islam. The only cases we find of former Muslims are people who were never practicing Muslims in the first place, nor did they ever have a good understanding of Islam. Yet on the other hand, the list of educated converts to Islam is immense, and it includes educated leaders such as priests, rabbis and atheists.
2. Those who have left Islam have historically fallen under three categories: those who left having never properly understood the religion often due to social circumstances, those who faked a conversion into Islam in order to undermine the Islamic community from within, and those who left to support opposing forces in battle against the Muslims. Because of the first category, Islam requires that the person who has chosen to forsake the religion be consulted with in order that his doubts may be clarified to him if there is any specific issue of confusion, or so that he may learn the proper Islamic teachings that he may otherwise have not been exposed to. As for the second and third category, this was the original reason behind the Prophet's statement on apostasy. The Qur'an records (3:72) that the Jews of Madinah decided to initiate the practice of pretending to accept Islam and then publicly declare their rejection of it, so as to destroy the confidence of the newly-converted Muslims. Thus, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh ruled that a punishment should be announced so that those who decide to accept Islam do so because of a firm conviction not in order to harm the Muslim community from within.
3. Coming to the actual law of apostasy, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did say, in the above historical context, "Whoever replaces his religion, execute him" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud) but how exactly do we understand this statement and does it conflict with the principles of freedom? The Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself clarified this statement in another hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim where he mentioned that the one who was to be fought against was the one who "abandons his religion and the Muslim community". It should be noted that every country has maintained punishments, including execution, for treason and rebellion against the state (See Mozley and Whitley's Law Dictionary, under "Treason and Treason Felony," pp. 368-369). Islam is not just a set of beliefs, it is a complete system of life which includes a Muslim's allegiance to the Islamic state. Thus, a rejection against that would be akin to treason. Rebellion against God is more serious than rebellion against one's country. However, one who personally abandons the faith and leaves the country would not be hunted down and assassinated, nor would one who remains inside the state conforming to outward laws be tracked down and executed. The notion of establishing inquisition courts to determine peoples' faith, as done in the Spanish Inquisition, is something contrary to Islamic law. As illustrated by the historical context in which it was mandated, the death penalty is mainly for those who collaborate with enemy forces in order to aid them in their attacks against the Islamic state or for those who seek to promote civil unrest and rebellion from within the Islamic state. When someone publicly announces their rejection of Islam within an Islamic state it is basically a challenge to the Islamic government, since such an individual can keep it to themselves like the personal affair it is made out to be.
4. From Islamic history, we can gain a better understanding of how this law has been implemented. Although the Prophet Muhammad pbuh threatened the death penalty in response to the attempts against the Muslim community, no such executions took place in his time (Imam Shawkani, Nayl Al-Awtar, vol. 7, p. 192) even though there is a report that a Bedouin renounced Islam and left Madinah unharmed in his time (Fath Al-Bari vol. 4, p.77 and vol. 13 p. 170; Sahih Muslim biSharh An-Nawawi, vol. 9, p. 391). Thus, we find that context plays an important role in determining how to deal with apostates. The case of one who enlists nations to fight against the Islamic state is more serious, for example. That is why the scholars of the Hanafi school of thought felt that the punishment only applies to the male apostate and not the female apostate because the latter is unable to wage war against the Islamic state. If someone simply has some doubts concerning Islam, then those doubts can be clarified.
From another of my posts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Quote:
Originally Posted by blunderbus
If a predominantly Christian country were going to execute a former Christian who converted to another religion (in this hypothetical case, Islam) would you be ok with that?
As a side note, this has already happened, examples include the spanish inquisition. But on to your question...
First of all, the law on apostasy has been explained here (My view on muslims) and here (Islam and Apostasy). It is commonly taken out of context, but the point to note is that the Prophet Muhammad (saws) clarified that the one to be punished was the one who rebelled against the community. This is quite similar to state laws on treason. A state is justified in taking action against those who pose a significant threat. But the idea of setting up an inquisition to examine the beliefs of the people is against Islamic teachings, so someone who personally changes their religious convictions will be insignificant in the eyes of the state. It is the one who publically announces his rebellion, stirring civil unrest, who must be opposed. While the Christian inquisitions were bent on examining (through the use of torture) the beliefs of those Muslims and Jews who outwardly professed conversion to Christianity, in an Islamic state, someone who even outwardly professes acceptane of Islam is left alone because they cause no harm to society, and the Islamic state is only interested in the security of its society.
If someone poses a threat to a state's security, then they are justified in taking action against them. But if someone changes their personal religious views, then it is quite extreme for the state to attempt to pry into the hearts of its citizens to determine their faith and punish them.
BIG LIE, Islam was never spreaded by sword, which means that they never took the person and said to him "convert to islam or you're dead" . this is a big lie invented by the kuffar.
Allah swt says in the Qur'an :
I know how Christianity answers question.
yee I know ;D
If you don't believe the facts & truths of history, how will you understand the spiritual truth I share with you?well since you edited the post, i need to reply to other points
BIG LIE, Islam was never spreaded by sword, which means that they never took the person and said to him "convert to islam or you're dead" . this is a big lie invented by the kuffar.
Allah swt says in the Qur'an :
Surah Al-Baqara 2:109
Many of the followers of the Book (Christians and Jews) wish that they could turn you back into unbelievers after your faith, out of envy from themselves, (even) after the truth has become manifest to them; but pardon and forgive, so that Allah should bring about His command; surely Allah has power over all things.
2:256
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
but it appears to you that they are holes. do you know why? bc you always go to learn about Islam from improper sources, instead of going to learn it from proper sources, so they twist the teachings of islam, without any proof ,so that's why you find holes, bc if you learn Islam from proper sources with open heart (as Khalid Yasin says without turning the glass upside down, and try to pour water on it) , then you will see that Islam is the perfect way without any holes.
I know how Christianity answers question.
Yes, but you completely missed the point
I have 5 English translations of the Quran and the one that I like best is the Majestic Quran published by the Nawawi Foundation.
