Convert vs Revert

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Convert or Revert?

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Osman said:
Indeed, although it's not a belief which can be proven (or disproven for that matter) scientifically or logically. I believe it because Islam tells me it is true.
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Exactly and that's why it makes no sense to argue.
I'd argue however if someone claimed a famous dutch scientists recently proved that newborns are monotheists..
 
Now a question: if a Muslim converts to Christianity and prophet Isa destroys the false cross will he/she be able to revert back? and gain a place in paradise without a sin of converting in the first place.
 
czgibson said:
Greetings,


Is it any more or less valid than the belief that all babies are born worshipping Thor and with an inbuilt hatred of giraffes?

Peace
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Callum, one thing that really gets me annoyed :raging::raging: is the argument you and dawkins always use "thor" "thor this thor that" "spaghetti man this and that", listen you have to base your judgments on how good a religion is; take for example if it has no contradictions and no scientifict errors, now the time of zeuz and thor, they were beliving such non-scientific and non-sensical things, but atleast the Quran is up to date with science, and with no contradictions. so why would you still belive in such religion, second off i am very sure that the made up God of thor didnt mention anything about babies being born worshiping him.

Peace
 
Ali_Cena said:
Callum, one thing that really gets me annoyed :raging::raging: is the argument you and dawkins always use "thor" "thor this thor that" "spaghetti man this and that", listen you have to base your judgments on how good a religion is; take for example if it has no contradictions and no scientifict errors, now the time of zeuz and thor, they were beliving such non-scientific and non-sensical things, but atleast the Quran is up to date with science, and with no contradictions. so why would you still belive in such religion, second off i am very sure that the made up God of thor didnt mention anything about babies being born worshiping him.

Peace
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You say the Quran is such, but that does not make it so. That is a beilife. One that not every one has.
 
Greetings,
Ali_Cena said:
Callum, one thing that really gets me annoyed :raging::raging: is the argument you and dawkins always use "thor" "thor this thor that" "spaghetti man this and that",
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I'm sorry if you find it annoying, but really that's your issue and not mine.

Atheists are likely to mention Thor from time to time simply because, like Allah, he is a member of a very long list of gods that we don't believe in.

listen you have to base your judgments on how good a religion is; take for example if it has no contradictions and no scientifict errors, now the time of zeuz and thor, they were beliving such non-scientific and non-sensical things, but atleast the Quran is up to date with science, and with no contradictions.
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The Qur'an is a 7th century text that doesn't even claim to be a scientific book. It is clearly very far from being "up to date with science".

so why would you still belive in such religion, second off i am very sure that the made up God of thor didnt mention anything about babies being born worshiping him.
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Would it make any difference if he had?!

If you like, you can ignore the Thor reference. Try the other one:

Do you have any reason (other than the argument from authority) to think that your belief that babies are all born Muslims is any more valid than my imaginary belief that all babies are born with an inbuilt hatred of giraffes?

Peace
 
ATHEISTofPEACE said:
How does being born pure=being born a muslim. I am not following you logic.
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First it takes an understanding of what being Muslim means. It is impossible to separate purity from Muslim if a person is a Muslim to the highest level possible. Which just may be attainable only by newborns. a Muslim submits fully to Allaah(swt) there are no other distractions. A new born is probably the best example of what a Muslim strives to be.
 
:salamext:


I take the view that a baby is born upon the fitrah [natural disposition] of knowing that there is one God etc. so not necessarily a Muslim in the sense that he knows how to perform the prayer, hajj, how much to give in zakah etc.

This was the view of Shaykh Waleed Basyouni too.


Allah knows best.
 
Salaam aleikum

I use the expressions here and there. I say "convert" when I talk to non-muslims, and "revert" to muslims. But I never say "i converted" or "I reverted to islam", I say "I found Islam".
 
Is there any reason out side of the Koran that would indicate that hte souls of newborns are born with faith in Allah?
 
Greetings,

czgibson said:
I'm sorry if you find it annoying, but really that's your issue and not mine.
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Ok. :)

czgibson said:
Atheists are likely to mention Thor from time to time simply because, like Allah, he is a member of a very long list of gods that we don't believe in.
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I can see that, whether or not it helps them with their argument is another matter, and we Muslims will be bringing up Allah as he is the only God that we worship.

czgibson said:
The Qur'an is a 7th century text that doesn't even claim to be a scientific book. It is clearly very far from being "up to date with science".
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So what if it doesn’t claim to be? Does it mean it isn’t, I mean it hasn’t claimed not to be. I think you would find it is up to date with science; as it doesn’t hold any scientific errors.

czgibson said:
Would it make any difference if he had?!
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Well obviously, if you were to state he was ultimately correct then everything that he has said must be correct right? Now if he had said everyone was born loving giraffes; and assuming he is ultimate truth, and then everyone would be born loving giraffes. Silly question really.

czgibson said:
Do you have any reason (other than the argument from authority) to think that your belief that babies are all born Muslims is any more valid than my imaginary belief that all babies are born with an inbuilt hatred of giraffes?
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No just as you don't have any supporting arguments that hold the belief that babies are all born with an inbuilt hatred of giraffes.

czgibson said:
Peace
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Regards.
 
ATHEISTofPEACE said:
Is there any reason out side of the Koran that would indicate that hte souls of newborns are born with faith in Allah?
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A newborn is totally trusting and full off expectation that all of his needs will be met. a baby communicates based upon trust and assurance that he will be met with love. A baby has the ability to interact with those it does not understand nor can fully see.

That seems to be a reasonably accurate description as to how a person submitting to Allaah(swt) would act.
 

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