Debate: Athiest's VS Christians VS Muslim

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but thats a matter of perception; to one person the fact that there is life and there is 'evolution' and there is 'creation' personifies that there IS a God; to someone else, like you, that does not hold tru.

Let me ask you something, WHAT would it take to prove to you there is God? I don't think anything that anybody could say or 'prove' would be sufficient for you.
 
but thats a matter of perception; to one person the fact that there is life and there is 'evolution' and there is 'creation' personifies that there IS a God; to someone else, like you, that does not hold tru.
So why are you on a self-proclaimed debate thread?

Heera Singh said:
Let me ask you something, WHAT would it take to prove to you there is God? I don't think anything that anybody could say or 'prove' would be sufficient for you.
Proof is wholly unattainable. It would be irrational to ask for proof.
 
ummm.. wait... didn't u say eralier

For a general lack of evidence and reason to believe in a God, incoherent definitions of God and meaningless definitions of God.

"Lack of evidence" which means u want PROOF... so does tha mean u are irrational?
 
how do u figure?

websters dictionary defines "evidence" as:

something that furnishes or tends to furnish proof

so, yes, I guess by definition that makes you irrational.
 
Can a Christian tell me straight up, do u regard Jesus as a son of god, a god, or prophet. I get so confused when someone tries to speak about the basics of Christianity. And the whole ghost thing just throws me off.
 
^ confuses me too bro..lol



No. Judging by your assumptions of evolution, you understand nothing about the theory. You don't even seem to get how it happens since you think that evolution is said to take place independently of reproduction.

...right...wanna look up that word? and the word brain? please?

Evolution takes place in plants as well.

The rest of your question makes no sense. Rain is a type of precipitation. It did not 'come' from anywhere. The air is just the atmosphere on earth.

wait wait wait i get this its a prank and ur going to say ..uh..febuary fools right? if not...do what i told u..LOOK UP BRAIN ...you might be able to find out where you can get free ones..dead ppl maybe..hehe





anyway...christians are your miracles all the miracles of the prophets?
 
Skavu - I mean creator as in God. Theists allege God exists. I asked for some demonstration of this.

Jā karṯā sirṯẖī ka­o sājė āpė jāṇai so­ī.

The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.

Guru Nanak Dev
 
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Greetings,
...right...wanna look up that word? and the word brain? please?



wait wait wait i get this its a prank and ur going to say ..uh..febuary fools right? if not...do what i told u..LOOK UP BRAIN ...you might be able to find out where you can get free ones..dead ppl maybe..hehe

Didn't you say, on a number of occasions, that you didn't want this thread to turn into a fight?

It looks like that was exactly what you were looking for.

Peace
 
...right...wanna look up that word? and the word brain? please?
Look up what word precisely? I take by your insulting attitude that you have lost interest in even defending your assertions on evolution. May I remind you of your original post:

You said:
ok its 1:45 here so i gotta go to bed..school tomorrow..fajr prayer...LI...lots to do.. inshallah i wont wake up wit a huge fight on here..maybe i shud get an owl to take care of this thread while i sleep..or a person who is awake in there part of the world while my part is night.lol

plzplz plz plz plz noooo fightS!!

Sounds like you better take your own advice.

truemuslim said:
wait wait wait i get this its a prank and ur going to say ..uh..febuary fools right? if not...do what i told u..LOOK UP BRAIN ...you might be able to find out where you can get free ones..dead ppl maybe..hehe
I explained natural events for you and I get this. I don't even know what this has to do with anything I said.

Oh wait, nothing.

Grow up.
 
Truemuslim,

Do you believe christians do not have miracals they believe in? Or just that they never happen? Just wondering
 
Yes. Allah has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists and more important, what we should do once we come to this realization.

Allah has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.

Miracles of prophets and messengers of Allah have come to people through the ages. Moses, peace be upon him, showed many miracles to pharoah and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea were are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.

Again, Allah sent Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, with clear miracles for the people of his time. Speaking from the cradle while still a new born infant, creating birds from clay, curing the sick, giving sight to the blind and even bringing a dead man back to life, were all clear signs to the people to know Jesus, peace be upon him, was a messenger of Allah as was Moses before him.

Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the last and final messenger of Allah, and he was sent to all of mankind. Allah sent him with a number of miracles, not the least of which was the Quran. The predictions and prophecies of Muhammad, peace be upon him, have come true even in this century and the Quran has been used to convince even scientists of the existence of Allah.
[Please visit "Science Proves Allah": Watch video of famous scientists admit Quran is from Allah and even accept Islam]

The Quran is the best of proofs for the existence of Allah and today over one and half billion people memorize and recite from the exact text, in the exact same language it was revealed in; Arabic. More than 10 million Muslims have completely memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, and can recite it from memory without looking at it.

No one sees or hears Allah, not even the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Nor are we able to use our senses to make some kind of contact with Him. However, we are encouraged in Islam to use our senses and our common sense to recognize this entire universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. This is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something we can understand.

We know from the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, the proofs for the existence of God (Allah) are most obvious to us in our everyday surroundings. Anyone with understanding would quickly acknowledge His existence provided they are not so stubborn as to ignore the obvious evidences in front right in front of us.

We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe Allah created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.).
 
Yes. Allah has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists and more important, what we should do once we come to this realization.
What messengers, miracles and revelations did Allah send down? Do you mean Muhammad and the Quran? Please demonstrate how both are evidence of the existence of some cosmic arbiter.

ummsara1108 said:
Allah has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.
So then you will surely have no problem directing us to these clear 'proofs'?

ummsara1108 said:
Miracles of prophets and messengers of Allah have come to people through the ages. Moses, peace be upon him, showed many miracles to pharoah and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea were are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.
Do we have any evidence of these claims? Keep in mind that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

ummsara1108 said:
Again, Allah sent Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, with clear miracles for the people of his time. Speaking from the cradle while still a new born infant, creating birds from clay, curing the sick, giving sight to the blind and even bringing a dead man back to life, were all clear signs to the people to know Jesus, peace be upon him, was a messenger of Allah as was Moses before him.
See above. Can we see this evidence that any of that happened?

ummsara1108 said:
Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the last and final messenger of Allah, and he was sent to all of mankind. Allah sent him with a number of miracles, not the least of which was the Quran. The predictions and prophecies of Muhammad, peace be upon him, have come true even in this century and the Quran has been used to convince even scientists of the existence of Allah.
So what prophecies have come true? And what scientists have been convinced by the Quran?

ummsara1108 said:
The Quran is the best of proofs for the existence of Allah and today over one and half billion people memorize and recite from the exact text, in the exact same language it was revealed in; Arabic. More than 10 million Muslims have completely memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, and can recite it from memory without looking at it.
What does (in my opinion - utter meaningless) acts of memorisation have to do with whether something is or is not true?

ummsara1108 said:
No one sees or hears Allah, not even the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Nor are we able to use our senses to make some kind of contact with Him.
Right.

ummsara1108 said:
However, we are encouraged in Islam to use our senses and our common sense to recognize this entire universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. This is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something we can understand.
Why did something have to design the universe? Show me your reasoning.

ummsara1108 said:
We know from the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, the proofs for the existence of God (Allah) are most obvious to us in our everyday surroundings. Anyone with understanding would quickly acknowledge His existence provided they are not so stubborn as to ignore the obvious evidences in front right in front of us.
I find the above rather arrogant. It presumes that anyone who does not conclude Allah is devoid of understanding.

ummsara1108 said:
We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe Allah created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.).
Sorry. I fail to see the relevance of the analogy. We know the origins of a painting - it is a man-made invention. The universe however, we do not know the origins and cannot conclude anything on it much less presume it was created.
 
If you take the time to read any of the religious books you will over and over again hear of the miracles that happened, it's not a muslim thing, it's a everyone that believe's thing, because all of the jews, christians and muslims believe there were miracles, it clearly states it in there books.
 
ummsara1108 said:
If you take the time to read any of the religious books you will over and over again hear of the miracles that happened, it's not a muslim thing, it's a everyone that believe's thing, because all of the jews, christians and muslims believe there were miracles, it clearly states it in there books.
I know proclamation of miracles are not just a Muslim thing. It is a thing that a lot of claims to the truth seem to do. That is why it is so totally unconvincing.

Every religion appears content to claim a miracle. What reason do I have to discriminate and presume Islam's claims of supernatural intervention over other claims?

And where is this empirical evidence of these miracles? They've been stated in the books you say? Where is the evidence that these books are correct?
 
I know it says your an Atheist, Skavau, but honestly if you didn't believe, you wouldn't be debating...or asking questions, you debunk everything that everyone has to say, that's your way of confirming what you believe to be true...or not true.
 
I know it says your an Atheist, Skavau, but honestly if you didn't believe, you wouldn't be debating...or asking questions, you debunk everything that everyone has to say, that's your way of confirming what you believe to be true...or not true
Are you alleging that I am a closet theist?

Because you would be wrong. Do not presume what I think. Any chance of the questions I asked being answered?
 
I know proclamation of miracles are not just a Muslim thing. It is a thing that a lot of claims to the truth seem to do. That is why it is so totally unconvincing.

Then why are there religions, that mostly focus on the same things? Come on there has to be a reason. The world is made up of religions mostly, not atheists

Every religion appears content to claim a miracle. What reason do I have to discriminate and presume Islam's claims of supernatural intervention over other claims?

You don't

And where is this empirical evidence of these miracles? They've been stated in the books you say? Where is the evidence that these books are correct?


Where is the evidence that they aren't?

Please, you a brother in humanity, read, seek knowledge, don't be so hesitant, keep an open mind, only then will you find the truth, whatever that may be...check out

www.islamalways.com and it's not only about islam
 
Are you alleging that I am a closet theist?

Because you would be wrong. Do not presume what I think. Any chance of the questions I asked being answered?


I haven't presumed anything, only by your own statements I come to the conclusion, that the answers are before you and yet you ignore them, simply because you don't believe, only when you do believe will you unserstand.

With you it's an agree to disagree debate
 
Where is the evidence that they aren't?
These are your claims. Not mine. You are alleging miracles have happened and the burden of evidence is upon you, as it always is with affirmative positions.

You don't get to make claims and then back out of discussion.

ummsara1108 said:
Please, you a brother in humanity, read, seek knowledge, don't be so hesitant, keep an open mind, only then will you find the truth, whatever that may be...check out

www.islamalways.com and it's not only about islam
A sincere search for the truth does not include looking at specifically Islamic or Islamic orientated websites. It does not include looking at Islamic websites and then concluding. A sincere search for the truth is being true to yourself. If an individual searches through religion, science and philosophy and then concludes that in fact - Islam is false then it is as much a statement of sincerity as a devout Muslims statement of sincerity that Islam is true.

Sincerity is honesty. It is the methods gained to reach a conclusion that define honesty, not what you conclude. I have no reason to presume Islam whatsoever. My search for 'truth' is entirely independent and favours no world view.
 
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