Debate: Why do some people completely reject hadith?

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Companion,

You have the audacity to post about your deviant views again when you have failed to answer ONE of our questions in the past 3 weeks! Here are you are again with the same, repetitive arguement that was shattered into thousands of pieces and then buried when you failed to respond to even one of our questions and here are you are again trying to put across this ideology to others when you are even incapable of defending and proving it.

No, it is obey the "messenger", the "rasool", that is the wording used in the Qur'an through out, not obey the "prophet".

Already responded to in previous posts. You are just repeating your arguements and cannot defend them.

Think of it this way:

The core problem with your arguement. You are basing your whole ideology on your own misinterpretations and you are taking what you like and leaving what you dont like. You are thinking of it the way your whims and desires want you to think and needless to say, they are the wrong way.

Messenger's message is the Qur'an. What you are doing is that you are taking 'obeying Allah', and 'obeying His messenger' as two seperate things, whereas in truth, they are but one.

What is your proof beside your own whims and desires?! You have yet to respond to ONE of our questions. You will NEVER be able to answer them either because you cannot. And that itself is sufficient proof that your path is a path of falsehood and your path is not Islam.

The messenger was sent and narrated Allah's message, the Qur'an. For us, whomsoever follows and obeys the contents of the Qur'an, has automatically obeyed the messenger.

By Allah, look at your arguement. Look how the Truth of your falsehood is apparent in your writing. Look at the bold part.

Allah narrates His message (the Qur'an) through His agency to mankind, the messenger. 'Allah and His messenger' are but one identity (so to speak). That is why 'Allah and His messenger' has also been identified as one in the following verses of the Qur'an:

"O Ye who believe! Put not yourselves forward before Allah and His Messenger; but fear Allah: for Allah is He Who hears and knows all things." [Qur'an 49:1]

Then WHY doesn't the Quran tell us HOW to pray?! You will always avoid this question because this one question tears your arguments to shreds.

and...

"And an announcement from Allah and His messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve."

[Qur'an 9:3]

The Qur'an is making the announcement, yet this announcement is from both "Allah and His messenger", proving that they are both a single "identity", and that 'Allah and His messenger' both manifest in the Qur'an. The following verse also shows us that 'Allah and His Messenger' are one "identity":

Then WHY does Allah say obey Allah and His Messenger as TWO seperete identities in the verses that say this?!

"Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them." [Qur’an 4:80]

The Qur'an encompasses both God's message and His messenger's message. 'Obeying Allah and obeying the messenger' is therefore (for us) obeying a single source revealed for mankind, the Qur'an. When the physical messenger passes away, obedience is due to his message (the Qur'an) only.

And then if obiedance is due to the Quran, you will be left with instuctions and have no idea how to follow them. I wonder what you pray like.

When one obeys and follows what is in the Qur'an, s/he automatically obeys the messenger.

I hope the above is clear for all.

Yes the matter is very clear. You have proved that your own way is false, yet again. The Messenger of Allah is free of your slanders upon him, and so are his Companions and those that came after them.

Last time I requested that you not start your next post with answering our questions and you ignored it because you cannot answer them. Again, DO NOT post in this thread without a reply to all our arguements because needless to say, you have no arguement left.

Using the Qur'an tell me how mank rak'ah in each salat, what must be recited in salah, how do we shorten our salat when travelling?

The Quran tells you to cut off the hand of the theif. Will you cut it off of children? An insane man? Or a person that was starving to death so he had to steal food? The Quran mentions some rulings regarding Prayer, i.e shortening of it when traveling but it does not tell you HOW this is to be done. The same applies to fasting and the same applies to Zakat.

If your next post does not contain a response to this and our other arguements and contains just a repitition of your previous posts, it will be deleted.

 

[Rou]

???????? brothers calm down....

this is what breaks the ummah when we stop talking and start arguing what is the issue here??? companion are you stating that the prophet and allah are one person? (in the sense that the trinety are one?) for that is not the facts brother...

however if you are stating that allah was reffering to the quran as the message then that is a step better that the previous option...

Ahmed brother there is no need to get so aggressive i admit i have not read companions previous posts but we are all brothers here there is no need to argue in this way we must remember we are but loooking at our faith we are not trying to insult it...

now indeed the quran mentions the form of sallat that we talk of however as the hadith it does not show fully namaz...prophet muhammed pbuh in the hadith stated that follow what i do remember it but do not write it down this was said on many occassions however still the hadith exist and i dont say the hadiths are all lies however they are words of men that are able to be changed as the prophet stated remember what i do...but it was written down by third parties now that is subject to change and mistrust beacuse in the end as i stated we are human...

,istakes and misinterpretation can lead astray i suggest follow hadith but be careful as long as the hadith does not hinder the direct message of the quran the big message...and that is to be good and follow in the way of allah not to harm innocents and protect mankind not destroy it...

 

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah,

Let it be known that I love Muslims for the sake of Allah,

I have been reluctant to post here, since I, 1. Feel these type of topic requires a certain amount of knowledge, 2. That it seems to be like a tanble tennis game going endlessly back and forth.

No, it is obey the "messenger", the "rasool", that is the wording used in the Qur'an through out, not obey the "prophet".

Think of it this way:

A messenger carries a message. And the messenger's message is the Qur'an. What you are doing is that you are taking 'obeying Allah', and 'obeying His messenger' as two seperate things, whereas in truth, they are but one.

Rather, I feel that you are mistaken, that analogy is flawed, it would only work if the Messenger was only sent to deliver and then leave.

Rather, an analogy of better quality is that:

A messenger carries a message, and this message is a guidance for mankind, then this messenger while delivering this message, also explains it's ruling and implimentations.

So instead, we see that, the Qu'ran is but part of the Message of Islam, the Messenger delivered it, and also explained it. So we are obeying Allah is obeying Allah's word, the Qu'ran, and then obeying the Messenger is obeying the Explanation and Implimentations and Rulings given.

The Proof is found in various verses:

With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.

16:44

And We have revealed the Scripture unto thee only that thou mayst explain unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

16:64


The rest of your post is thus the same, quoting verses which obligate a Muslim to follow Allah and Allah's messenger, so you claim that Allah and His Messenger are as if 'one entity'.

I agree to an extent that obeying the Messenger is Obeying Allah, why, because, of Allah's statements of it being so. But it is not true that it means that it is then refering to obeying the messenger just means obey the Qu'ran.

Rather, we are told to obey others other than Allah and His messenger, does this make them 'one entity'?

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.

4:59

So by that reasoning, because we are told to obey those in Authority they are one in entity? Rather, we known the Prophet did not speak of his own desire, Surah An Najm 1-5, we know that if he lied about Allah he would have been siezed, so his speech outside the Qu'ran, his explanation of the Qu'ran is revelation. Revelation from who? Allah, thus obeying that revelation outside the Qu'ran is obeying Allah.

To proceed, Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah Brother Rou,

For one brother calm down calling fellow muslims kafar is a very big statment...it is stated no where that if we dont follow the hadith that youare not a muslim?

Maybe not in those very words, but it is a clear matter.

i beleive in the quran without doubt but i am careful with the hadith as not all hadith can be trusted so it is better to becarful when studying the hadith...

There is no problem that I can see in that, that is why Mustala Hadeeth is there, and the volumes and volumes of different people and who they narrated from and so forth is there, so that one is careful, when classifying hadeeth.

the quran is the word of allah where as the hadith is the word of men who say they heard our prophet stating these things and indeed much can be true but we cannot what is true and what is not heance why only certain ones are trusted...so no one states not to beleive as it harms you not at the point where it does then that is a mans choice that does not make him kafar...

Rather, you are speaking about the preservation, you said "he quran is the word of allah where as the hadith is the word of men who say they heard our prophet stating these things" The Qu'ran is the word or Allah, Hadeeth is the Word of Muhammad, or actions or tacid approvals, and both of them are relayed and preserved through Men.

The Qu'ran was memorised and compiled, Hadeeth memories and compiled.

If a hadeeth is authentic then it is obligatory that a Muslim follows it, just as the Qu'ran is known to have come down clear, that hadeeth classified authentic is now known to have come down clear, and because Muhammad did not lie about Allah then it is an obligation to follow it.

it also states in the quran that the quran is allahs final message to us and the quran has all within it to sustain muslims in this world...

the hadiths cannot be guarnteed where as the quran can...

and this appears a few times in the hadith yet still the hadith exist?

a contradiction...there is not one contradiction in the quran....

also if we look at the hadith things are out of place for example...

there is a hadith that states it is forbidden to wear gold , or that if you die while wearing gold you will not receive the gold of jannat...

now...how detailed is the quran? as stated by allah the quran is the path for muslims and his full and final message..yet it mentions nothing of not wearing gold or to becareful with gold??

it but only mentions gold in the stages of not being greedy with such things as gold and silver or that we will wear gold braclets in jannat...

if the hadith were true then that would be a contradiction...

Rather your mistaken, allow me to put an example:

If I send you a letter with a messenger, then I say in the letter, 'this messenger will explain to you my message clearly, and I will know if he lies about me, and he will instanly die, so follow my message it is enough for you'

Now, would you not follow the explanation given by the messenger? Although I have stated that the message is enough, I have also stated that the message will be explained, also through my stating that if the messenger says anything about me that is not true he will die, you should know that you should follow everything the messenger says, unless he lied and you'd know because he would be siezed by me.

So similarly if the Prophet is explaining the message of Islaam and explains the Halal and Haram, and that Gold is Haram, this is not a contradiction (unless you can show that the Qu'ran says Gold is not haram) rather the topic was left out of the Qu'ran, and then explained under the title of Halal and Haram by the Prophet, no contradiction.

I remind you all that I love you all for the sake of Allah and hope that Allah has mercy on us and imparts knowledge of His religion in our hearts. That He forgives me for any wrong I've said.

Assalam Aleykum Wa Rhametulah, Brother Eesa.

 

[scentsofjannah]

Please stop the hate and get on once and for all..its amazing how certain muslims will brand another muslim a disbeliever if he or she so much as expresses doubt in any hadeeth which is totally natural...the way i see it..the only 100% fool proof way to determine if this or that hadeeth (out of all the thousands upon thousands of hadeeths from both traditions (sunni+shia)) is actually from Prophet Muhammed's p.b.u.h own mouth or even from the same narrator..is to actually go back in time..and we all know thats impossible..so i take the message of any hadeeth that coressponds with the Qur'an and reject all the doubtful ones i recognise its historical and inspirational worth but it breaks my heart and greatly saddens me to see muslims so hung up on hadeeths and know extremely little about the Qur'an..

..to answer the brothers original question why do people reject hadeeths..? its because they have come across hadeeths that they couldnt believe or couldnt digest..some will even point out how some hadeeths clash with verses of the Qur'an.

I hope i havent offended anyone.i was merely stating my own viewpoint...you all take care

 

[Rou]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah,

Let it be known that I love Muslims for the sake of Allah,

I have been reluctant to post here, since I, 1. Feel these type of topic requires a certain amount of knowledge, 2. That it seems to be like a tanble tennis game going endlessly back and forth.





Rather, I feel that you are mistaken, that analogy is flawed, it would only work if the Messenger was only sent to deliver and then leave.

Rather, an analogy of better quality is that:

A messenger carries a message, and this message is a guidance for mankind, then this messenger while delivering this message, also explains it's ruling and implimentations.

So instead, we see that, the Qu'ran is but part of the Message of Islam, the Messenger delivered it, and also explained it. So we are obeying Allah is obeying Allah's word, the Qu'ran, and then obeying the Messenger is obeying the Explanation and Implimentations and Rulings given.

The Proof is found in various verses:

With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.

16:44

And We have revealed the Scripture unto thee only that thou mayst explain unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

16:64


The rest of your post is thus the same, quoting verses which obligate a Muslim to follow Allah and Allah's messenger, so you claim that Allah and His Messenger are as if 'one entity'.

I agree to an extent that obeying the Messenger is Obeying Allah, why, because, of Allah's statements of it being so. But it is not true that it means that it is then refering to obeying the messenger just means obey the Qu'ran.

Rather, we are told to obey others other than Allah and His messenger, does this make them 'one entity'?

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.

4:59

So by that reasoning, because we are told to obey those in Authority they are one in entity? Rather, we known the Prophet did not speak of his own desire, Surah An Najm 1-5, we know that if he lied about Allah he would have been siezed, so his speech outside the Qu'ran, his explanation of the Qu'ran is revelation. Revelation from who? Allah, thus obeying that revelation outside the Qu'ran is obeying Allah.

To proceed, Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah Brother Rou,



Maybe not in those very words, but it is a clear matter.



There is no problem that I can see in that, that is why Mustala Hadeeth is there, and the volumes and volumes of different people and who they narrated from and so forth is there, so that one is careful, when classifying hadeeth.



Rather, you are speaking about the preservation, you said "he quran is the word of allah where as the hadith is the word of men who say they heard our prophet stating these things" The Qu'ran is the word or Allah, Hadeeth is the Word of Muhammad, or actions or tacid approvals, and both of them are relayed and preserved through Men.

The Qu'ran was memorised and compiled, Hadeeth memories and compiled.

If a hadeeth is authentic then it is obligatory that a Muslim follows it, just as the Qu'ran is known to have come down clear, that hadeeth classified authentic is now known to have come down clear, and because Muhammad did not lie about Allah then it is an obligation to follow it.



Rather your mistaken, allow me to put an example:

If I send you a letter with a messenger, then I say in the letter, 'this messenger will explain to you my message clearly, and I will know if he lies about me, and he will instanly die, so follow my message it is enough for you'

Now, would you not follow the explanation given by the messenger? Although I have stated that the message is enough, I have also stated that the message will be explained, also through my stating that if the messenger says anything about me that is not true he will die, you should know that you should follow everything the messenger says, unless he lied and you'd know because he would be siezed by me.

So similarly if the Prophet is explaining the message of Islaam and explains the Halal and Haram, and that Gold is Haram, this is not a contradiction (unless you can show that the Qu'ran says Gold is not haram) rather the topic was left out of the Qu'ran, and then explained under the title of Halal and Haram by the Prophet, no contradiction.

I remind you all that I love you all for the sake of Allah and hope that Allah has mercy on us and imparts knowledge of His religion in our hearts. That He forgives me for any wrong I've said.

Assalam Aleykum Wa Rhametulah, Brother Eesa.

indeed all i am stating is that we can go over and over the hadith if needed but the fact is our prophet pbuh said things that we follow today and that is good as he stated follow my actions and we do but as i stated he explained not to write down anything expect the quran from memory...

the hadiths were not allocated by our prophet pbuh in any way or matter the hadiths are the works of men 30 years after our prophet passed on pbuh...

there is no way of telling which hadith is authentic and which is not we have those that are the most trusted but no real way of telling which are 100% true...

as i stated we may follow the hadith but tread carefully and take them not to the clairty as such of the quran for that is not the case it is impossible to be as clear as the quran...

and again for those who have read the quran you will feel anyhow which hadiths fit in to the big message of the quran and which seem to side line it....

overall as long as there is no harm from the hadith then why not follow it but let us not call those who do not follow it kafar for it is stated no where that the disregard of hadith will cause you to be kafar...

force is not the way of islam and neither is ignorance so be good and be wise...

 

[Umar001]

Please stop the hate and get on once and for all..its amazing how certain muslims will brand another muslim a disbeliever if he or she so much as expresses doubt in any hadeeth which is totally natural...the way i see it..the only 100% fool proof way to determine if this or that hadeeth (out of all the thousands upon thousands of hadeeths from both traditions (sunni+shia)) is actually from Prophet Muhammed's p.b.u.h own mouth or even from the same narrator..is to actually go back in time..and we all know thats impossible..so i take the message of any hadeeth that coressponds with the Qur'an and reject all the doubtful ones i recognise its historical and inspirational worth but it breaks my heart and greatly saddens me to see muslims so hung up on hadeeths and know extremely little about the Qur'an..

..to answer the brothers original question why do people reject hadeeths..? its because they have come across hadeeths that they couldnt believe or couldnt digest..some will even point out how some hadeeths clash with verses of the Qur'an.

I hope i havent offended anyone.i was merely stating my own viewpoint...you all take care

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah,

Hope all is well sister and thank you for you kind words,

I will ask you, do you know the sciences of classification of Hadeeth?

and also, how do you know the Qu'ran has been preserved?

And do you not think that some hadeeth need to be explained? like some ayat that seem contradictiory to someone with small knowledge?

 

[Rou]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah,

Hope all is well sister and thank you for you kind words,

I will ask you, do you know the sciences of classification of Hadeeth?

and also, how do you know the Qu'ran has been preserved?

And do you not think that some hadeeth need to be explained? like some ayat that seem contradictiory to someone with small knowledge?

I know this question was not aimed at me and i mean no disrespect at answering it to a certainextenct....

the quran when read does not need explaining to those with knowledge yet indeed sometimes to a person with small knowledge you are right..

however the hadith will be seen as contradictory for those with knowledge and those with small knowledge...

any verse can be explained from the quran...however not every hadith can be explainbed with such clarity...nor does every hadith go along with what is written in the quran...

as stated some hadith indeed are true but there are alot that are either misinterpreted or untrue...it is better to be careful with the words of men...

i refer not to the words souly of our prophet pbuh but those of third parties who say they heard such things we are human after all...

 

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah

I hope all is well and nice to se your reply,

he explained not to write down anything expect the quran from memory...

I have the feeling you are talking about:

It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur’aan, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that. (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaa’iq, 5326)

Rather please read:

Those who use this hadeeth and argue that no ahadeeth were written are ignorant of the historical temporary prohibition of this statement. The temporary prohibition was meant as a precautionary step to ensure the correctness of the word of Allaah as distinguished from the words of the Prophet himself, as both came from the lips of the Prophet. This is one view and several other views are mentioned in the commentary on Saheeh Muslim by Imaam Al-Nawawi (May Allaah have mercy on him)


Al-Nawawi said in his commentary on Saheeh Muslim:

Al-Qaadi said: there were many disputes among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een concerning the writing down of knowledge. Many of them regarded this as being makrooh, but most of them regarded it as permissible. This dispute is no longer an issue.

They differed as to the meaning of this hadeeth which says that it is forbidden. It was said that this pertained to one who was sure of his memory, and there was the fear that he may rely upon what he had written if he wrote it down; the ahaadeeth which say that it is permissible to write things down is to be interpreted as referring to the one whose memory is not reliable, such as the hadeeth, “Write it down for Abu Shaah”; or the hadeeth of the saheefah of ‘Alee (may Allaah be pleased with him); the hadeeth of the book of ‘Amr ibn Hazm, which contains laws on inheritance, sunnahs and diyaat (blood money); the hadeeth about writing down charity, and the minimum amounts at which zakaah becomes obligatory (nisaab), with which Abu Bakr sent Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) to Bahrain; the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah which says that Ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas used to ; write things down but he (Abu Hurayrah) did not write things down, and other ahaadeeth. And it was said that the hadeeth forbidding writing down ahaadeeth was abrogated by these ahaadeeth.

The prohibition was in effect when there was the fear that (the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) might be mixed with the Qur’aan. When that danger was no longer present, permission was given to write down (ahaadeeth). And it was said that the prohibition mentioned in the hadeeth referred to writing ahaadeeth on the same page as Qur’aan, lest they become mixed and thus the reader would be confused when looking at this page. And Allaah knows best.

The hadeeth of Abu Shaah was narrated by al-Bukhaari from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said:
‘When Allaah granted His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) victory over Makkah, he stood before the people and praised and glorified Allaah, then he said: “Allaah protected Makkah from the elephant and has given authority to His Messenger and the believers over it, so fighting was forbidden for anyone before me, and was made permissible for me for part of a day, and it will not be permissible for anyone after me. Its game should not be chased, its thorny bushes should not be uprooted, and picking up its fallen things is not allowed except for one who makes public announcement for it, and he whose relative is murdered has the option either to accept a compensation for it or to retaliate.” Al-‘Abbas said, “Except Al-Idhkhir (a kind of plant), for we use it in our graves and houses.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Except Al-Idhkhir.” Abu Shaah, a Yemeni, stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah! Get it written for me.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Write it for Abu Shaah.” (al-Luqatah, 2254)

Ibn Hajar said: What may be understood from the story of Abu Shaah (“Write it for Abu Shaah”) is that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave permission for hadeeth to be written down from him.


This contradicts the hadeeth of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, which says that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Do not write down anything from me except the Qur’aan.’ (Narrated by Muslim).

The two may be reconciled by noting that the prohibition applied only to the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed, lest it be confused with something else, and that permission was given at other times; or that the prohibition applied only to writing down things other than Qur’aan with the Qur’aan on one thing, and that permission was given to write them separately; of that the prohibition came first and the permission abrogated that, when there was no longer any fear of confusion. This is most likely to be the case.

It was said that the prohibition applied only to those whom it was feared would depend on the writing and not memorize things, and that permission was given for those from whom such a thing was not feared.

The scholars said: a group of the Sahaabah and Taabi’een regarded it as makrooh to write down the hadeeth and they regarded it as mustahabb to learn it from them by heart, as they had learned it. But when people were no longer able to strive so hard (in memorizing) and the scholars feared that knowledge might be lost, they compiled it in books.”
There are countless instructions from the Prophet instructing his companions to write down some ahadeeth.

the hadiths were not allocated by our prophet pbuh in any way or matter the hadiths are the works of men 30 years after our prophet passed on pbuh...

Again, please read:

One of the Ansaar (The Helpers) asked the Prophet if there was another way to preserve ahadeeth as he sometimes forgets them. The Prophet replied:

Seek help from your right hand, and pointed out to a writing. (Tirmidhi)


Raafi ibn Khadij (May Allaah be pleased with him) said:

I said to the Prophet that we hear from you many things, should we write them down?” He replied: You may write. There is no harm. (Tadreeb ar Raawi)


Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrates that the Prophet said:

Preserve knowledge by writing. (At-Tabari Jaami ul Bayaan)


Abu Raafi (may Allaah be pleased with him) sought permission from the Prophet to write ahadeeth and the Prophet granted him that permission (Tirmidhi)


Salma (student of Ibn Abbaas) says:

I saw some small wooden boards with Abdullaah Ibn Abbaas. He was writing on them some reports of the acts of the Prophet which he acquired from Abu Raafi’. (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa’d)


Abdullaah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas (May Allaah be pleased with him) reports that the Prophet said to him:

Preserve Knowledge


Abdullaah then asked,

how should it be preserved?


The Prophet replied,

by writing it.
(Mustadrik Haakim; Jaami ul Bayaan)


In another report, he says,

I came to the Prophet and told him, I want to narrate your ahadeeth. So, I want to take assistance of my handwriting besides my heart. Do you deem it fit for me?’


The Prophet replied,

If it is my hadeeth you may seek help from your hand besides your heart. (Daarimi)


He also says:

I used to write whatever I heard from the Prophet and wanted to learn it by heart. Some people of the Quraysh dissuaded me and said,
Do you write everything you hear from the Prophet, while he is a human being and sometimes he may be in anger as any other human beings may be? (Abu Dawood)


After Abdullaah ibn Amr conveyed their opinion to the Prophet, the Prophet replied by pointing to his lips and said:

I swear by the One in whose hands is the soul of Muhammad: nothing comes out from these two (lips) except truth(haqq). So, do write. (Abu Dawood; Tabaqaat ibn Sa’d; Mustadrik ul Haakim)

there is no way of telling which hadith is authentic and which is not we have those that are the most trusted but no real way of telling which are 100% true...

I know this question was not aimed at me and i mean no disrespect at answering it to a certainextenct....

No worries Brother

the quran when read does not need explaining to those with knowledge yet indeed sometimes to a person with small knowledge you are right..

however the hadith will be seen as contradictory for those with knowledge and those with small knowledge...

I will state two things:

1. With regards to the statement that the hadeeth are a bigger field, so thus more knowledge is needed, so let's say something appears in the quran to be contradictory then a smaller amount of knowledge would be needed to understand it if this happended in the field of hadeeth, because the field of hadeeth is wider.

2. If a hadeeth contradicts something stronger than it, i.e. Qu'ran or Sahih Ahadeeth, then by fault this hadeeth is not Sahih or Hasan.

It might take people with more knowledge to classify Ahadeeth but that is not a bad thing, it means careful analysis.

any verse can be explained from the quran...however not every hadith can be explainbed with such clarity...nor does every hadith go along with what is written in the quran...

Again, there are different types of verses in the Qu'ran, some easy to explain some hard, why is it that divient sects are able to fool people? Because they twist the meaning, does this mean the Qu'ran should not be used? No, rather we should use it with the correct understanding.

Similarly with Hadeeth, there are some which are easy to understand, 'Actions are by Intentions' dont you find that easy? And others that the meaning need more research.

as stated some hadith indeed are true but there are alot that are either misinterpreted or untrue...it is better to be careful with the words of men...

i refer not to the words souly of our prophet pbuh but those of third parties who say they heard such things we are human after all...

Words of men, meaning the chain of narration, the isnad? This is why I asked how do people know the Qu'ran is with us? Passed down generation to generation?

I agree we should be careful, and when one starts to read the extent that the Muhaddithin go to verify hadeeth then I have faith in them.

http://www.load-islam.com/indepth.php?topic_id=9

Alhamdulilah, thank you for your patience too.

 

[Rou]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah

I hope all is well and nice to se your reply,



I have the feeling you are talking about:



Rather please read:






Again, please read:








No worries Brother



I will state two things:

1. With regards to the statement that the hadeeth are a bigger field, so thus more knowledge is needed, so let's say something appears in the quran to be contradictory then a smaller amount of knowledge would be needed to understand it if this happended in the field of hadeeth, because the field of hadeeth is wider.

2. If a hadeeth contradicts something stronger than it, i.e. Qu'ran or Sahih Ahadeeth, then by fault this hadeeth is not Sahih or Hasan.

It might take people with more knowledge to classify Ahadeeth but that is not a bad thing, it means careful analysis.



Again, there are different types of verses in the Qu'ran, some easy to explain some hard, why is it that divient sects are able to fool people? Because they twist the meaning, does this mean the Qu'ran should not be used? No, rather we should use it with the correct understanding.

Similarly with Hadeeth, there are some which are easy to understand, 'Actions are by Intentions' dont you find that easy? And others that the meaning need more research.



Words of men, meaning the chain of narration, the isnad? This is why I asked how do people know the Qu'ran is with us? Passed down generation to generation?

I agree we should be careful, and when one starts to read the extent that the Muhaddithin go to verify hadeeth then I have faith in them.

http://www.load-islam.com/indepth.php?topic_id=9

Alhamdulilah, thank you for your patience too.

Thank you for your prudent reply brother i agree as stated that some hadith indeed are valubale to mankind but many contradict eachother therefore we can guarntee there are mistakes and lies somewhere so that is where the warning lies to be careful...

as you stated -

"This is most likely to be the case."

there is a doubt where as the quran is pure we know that it has been passed by generation to generation without change beacuse 1 there are no contradictions within it nor till this day has anyone been able to challenge it..the hadith has mistakes and has contradictions we must be careful as not to take this as allahs word as it has not been gaurded nor recorded with the purity of the quran...

but i understand your words and pray clarity for our people may he guide us to the goal he has written for us all...

 

[- Qatada -]

Ameen to your dua bro Rou.

Realise that the hadith that 'contradict' the Qur'an only seem that way to us because we don't have proper knowledge of the Qur'an. We can easily say that we do, but if these authentic ahadith did contradict the Qur'an - why then would the scholars who were more knowledgable of the Qur'an compared to us accept these ahadith?


Anyone can claim that these hadith are contradictory, but we won't know this unless we have that knowledge. So if we don't have that knowledge, isn't it much better that we actually go to the works of these scholars, or to actual scholars themselves to ask them about our misunderstandings? Instead of simply rejecting them?


Just keep that in mind insha'Allaah. And we have to realise that if we're so knowledgable of the Qur'an, we're not - because those that speak the Qur'an as their first language (i.e. arabic) accept these ahadith, and the group that doesn't accept these ahadith are those that don't speak the Quranic language as their first tongue anyway.



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.​

 

[Rou]

Ameen to your dua bro Rou.​

Realise that the hadith that 'contradict' the Qur'an only seem that way to us because we don't have proper knowledge of the Qur'an. We can easily say that we do, but if these authentic ahadith did contradict the Qur'an - why then would the scholars who were more knowledgable of the Qur'an compared to us accept these ahadith? ​

Anyone can claim that these hadith are contradictory, but we won't know this unless we have that knowledge. So if we don't have that knowledge, isn't it much better that we actually go to the works of these scholars, or to actual scholars themselves to ask them about our misunderstandings? Instead of simply rejecting them?​

Just keep that in mind insha'Allaah. And we have to realise that if we're so knowledgable of the Qur'an, we're not - because those that speak the Qur'an as their first language (i.e. arabic) accept these ahadith, and the group that doesn't accept these ahadith are those that don't speak the Quranic language as their first tongue anyway.​

Allaah Almighty know's best.​

Peace.​

The understanding of the quran is based on the understanding of each reader i beleive each should read it for themselves instead of going by hearsay and what they have heard otherwise yes indeed not challenge hadith or quran verses...

what i talk of is not hearsay it is what i have read and come to understand..

indeed there are many scholars who accept some hadiths but not all and as i stated i agree that some hadith should be looked into but what i also state is that they are not equal to teh wordds of allah therefore we should be careful with hadith as to someone who feels the full message will see which hadith goes along with the qurans message and which does not...

it is clear that certain hadith are not correct since all muslims do not accept all hadith yet every muslim knows the quran is pure from allah...

so be careful of how we intrepret hadith and how we follow it...to make sure we do not do any harm to islam and there are many already misinterpret hadith in particular and do wrong...

that does not help islam in any way...

i ask not to reject hadith no...i ask to be careful not to forget the bigger message of the quran...

 

[- Qatada -]

This is why we turn to the knowledgable scholars of the ummah because if we all interpreted the Qur'an in our own way, then we will all have our own interpretations of the Qur'an and therefore one person may feel that we only need to cover a certain area of the body, or we may all have our own interpretation on how to perform salaah, or how to pay the zakaah, how to perform hajj etc.


This is why we follow the Qur'an according to the understanding of the sahabah (companions) of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.) You may think its hearsay, but if you think its so hard to be sure that one thing is authentic, then how come some of us accept non muslim history? Aren't those from 'unreliable' sources too?


We follow the interpretation of the Qur'an according to the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) because they experienced it within their lifetime. They heard the interpretation of the Qur'an from the lips of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.) What other way can the sayings of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) be preserved? Wasn't the Qur'an preserved due to these companions?

How come we don't trust them if its the same people who actually writ down the Qur'an for us? We know that the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) was illiterate, so obviously the companions had to write it down, so why do we find it hard to trust that they did remember the sayings of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.)?


We learn from the knowledgable scholars, who have studied the lives of the people who narrate the ahadith. If we can believe that the FBI has info. about us stored up, why can't we believe that the muslims who were the superpower at that time (in all fields) can't have a system like that?



Just think deeply about this insha'Allaah.



Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.

 

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum brother,

I would just like to first say, I think there is a difference within this conversation as to the meaning of the word Hadeeth:

When I say hadeeth, I mean with regards to the statements which have been studied and scrutanised and deemed authentic.

I think when you say hadeeth, you mean any statement attributed to the Prophet, peace be upon him, which may or may not be authentic.

I agree, with that regard that people should not accept every 'hadeeth' but only the ones that have survived the test and scrutenisation.

Thank you for your prudent reply brother i agree as stated that some hadith indeed are valubale to mankind but many contradict eachother therefore we can guarntee there are mistakes and lies somewhere so that is where the warning lies to be careful...

I agree that there are unathentic hadeeth which do contradict others and those hadeeth are to be rejected.

as you stated -

"This is most likely to be the case."

Remind me where I said this brother sorrry, the son of Adam forgets, may Allah forigve him. Ameen

there is a doubt where as the quran is pure we know that it has been passed by generation to generation without change beacuse 1 there are no contradictions within it nor till this day has anyone been able to challenge it..the hadith has mistakes and has contradictions we must be careful as not to take this as allahs word as it has not been gaurded nor recorded with the purity of the quran...

I disagree with the part i put in bold, it is only logical sense that if you believe in that Muhammad has been sent to explain the Qu'ran that Muhammad's explanation is available for those to whom the Qu'ran was sent to.

The understanding of the quran is based on the understanding of each reader..

I don't know if I have misunderstood you, but I disagree totally with this, if every person is left to understand the Qu'ran in their own way, it would equate to wrong understanding. If you wanna know why I think that ask and I will explain. Insha'Allah.

indeed there are many scholars who accept some hadiths but not all and as i stated i agree that some hadith should be looked into but what i also state is that they are not equal to teh wordds of allah therefore we should be careful with hadith as to someone who feels the full message will see which hadith goes along with the qurans message and which does not...

I agree some hadeeths are to be accepted and some rejected depending on their authenticity.

With regards to the underlined part, in what way are the word of the Prophet, peace be upon him, not of the same weight as the words of Allah?

With regards to the bold part, and who can say which person 'feels the full message'? You see not one person is able to explain the whole of Islaam, not after the prophet peace be upon him.

it is clear that certain hadith are not correct since all muslims do not accept all hadith yet every muslim knows the quran is pure from allah...

Two points,

Every hadeeth proven to be authentic is or should be accepted by all Muslims and Muslims scholers will accept those hadeeth.

Not every Muslim believes that the Qu'ran is, at this time pure and in its totality, it has reached me that some say the following please check the quotes:

"Abu Baseer reported that he said to Imam Ja'far, "O Abu Abdullah (Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq) What is Mus-haf Fatimah?" He replied "It is a Qur'an containing three times what is found in your copy of the Qur'an; yet by Allah, it does not contain even a single letter from your Qur'an. (Al-Kafi vol.1 p.457)

No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur'an except Imams. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228)

Assalamu ALeykum Dear Brother,

Al Habeshi

 

[Rou]

This is why we turn to the knowledgable scholars of the ummah because if we all interpreted the Qur'an in our own way, then we will all have our own interpretations of the Qur'an and therefore one person may feel that we only need to cover a certain area of the body, or we may all have our own interpretation on how to perform salaah, or how to pay the zakaah, how to perform hajj etc.


This is why we follow the Qur'an according to the understanding of the sahabah (companions) of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.) You may think its hearsay, but if you think its so hard to be sure that one thing is authentic, then how come some of us accept non muslim history? Aren't those from 'unreliable' sources too?


We follow the interpretation of the Qur'an according to the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) because they experienced it within their lifetime. They heard the interpretation of the Qur'an from the lips of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.) What other way can the sayings of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) be preserved? Wasn't the Qur'an preserved due to these companions?

How come we don't trust them if its the same people who actually writ down the Qur'an for us? We know that the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) was illiterate, so obviously the companions had to write it down, so why do we find it hard to trust that they did remember the sayings of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.)?


We learn from the knowledgable scholars, who have studied the lives of the people who narrate the ahadith. If we can believe that the FBI has info. about us stored up, why can't we believe that the muslims who were the superpower at that time (in all fields) can't have a system like that?



Just think deeply about this insha'Allaah.



Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.

no indeed brother that is exactly the case that scholars state that certain hadit are fact yet many are incertain as there is no way of telling which are fact and which are misinterpretated and we know from scholars out of so many hadith we can trust only certain ones and thats my point not that we should not follow hadith but we should be careful when doing so...

this thread started with saying that those who dont beleive the hadith are not muslim i disagree with that i say those who reject hadith fully yet still follow the quran are but trying to guard islam by making sure they dont follow hadith due to fear of getting it wrong as we know there are hadith that are not followed by even scholars as they state there are mainly six that are to be trusted but what of the others? there are many factors but teh point is if you follow the quran that was said as allahs final and full message you are doing your best to follow allahs path as long as you meet the requirement of the qurans full message..

there are many who follow the hadith yet break down the fundamental laws within the quran!?

if we look at terrorists (so called anyhow) but those who harmed innocents in other lands if they say in the hadith that is justfied by some angle? that is still against the full message of the quran and that is not in my view that is fact in teh quran that by harming innocents makes no sense ? they are not attacking us yet they were harmed?

lets put it this way...follow as long as it breaks not the full message of the qran then indeed that would end up as contradiction...

 

[- Qatada -]

no indeed brother that is exactly the case that scholars state that certain hadit are fact yet many are incertain as there is no way of telling which are fact and which are misinterpretated and we know from scholars out of so many hadith we can trust only certain ones and thats my point not that we should not follow hadith but we should be careful when doing so...

this thread started with saying that those who dont beleive the hadith are not muslim i disagree with that i say those who reject hadith fully yet still follow the quran are but trying to guard islam by making sure they dont follow hadith due to fear of getting it wrong as we know there are hadith that are not followed by even scholars as they state there are mainly six that are to be trusted but what of the others? there are many factors but teh point is if you follow the quran that was said as allahs final and full message you are doing your best to follow allahs path as long as you meet the requirement of the qurans full message..

there are many who follow the hadith yet break down the fundamental laws within the quran!?

if we look at terrorists (so called anyhow) but those who harmed innocents in other lands if they say in the hadith that is justfied by some angle? that is still against the full message of the quran and that is not in my view that is fact in teh quran that by harming innocents makes no sense ? they are not attacking us yet they were harmed?

lets put it this way...follow as long as it breaks not the full message of the qran then indeed that would end up as contradiction...

There aren't only 6 collections of hadith. I think you're referring to the six main collectors of hadith, the collections; Sahih al Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Al-Nisa'i, Ibn Majah. But there are others such as Bayhaqi, Musnad Ahmad etc.


However, the titles don't really matter because they are just the collections of hadith which the person compiled, with the chain of narration. After this the scholars who study the lives of the people in the chain try to find out the character of the person - to see the strength of his/her memory, if he/she was known for lying etc. Even the biographies of the people have been recorded in depth, so the scholar can figure out if this chain of narrators is strong (i.e. if all the people are all trustworthy or not.)




If the chain is trustworthy, then the scholar can class the hadith as hasan (good) or even saheeh (authentic.) This is when the classification of the hadith comes up. If the chain never had trustworthy narrators in, it may be da'eef (weak) and therefore not be accepted as a source of islamic law. Do you understand how its common sense? The sayings of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) had to be passed on this way, otherwise - what else could we expect? Did we expect an angel to bring a book with all the sayings of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.)? If someone was to say that, then they have to realise that the Qur'an wasn't even written down this way.



The scholars use evidences from the Qur'an and Authentic ahadith to prove what they say. This is why we have scholars in different fields, some studying Qur'an (muffasireen), some studying hadith (muhaditheen), some who extract rulings out of them (scholars of fiqh [understanding]) etc. They can come together and discuss while representing their own field, and come together with a ruling.


If a scholar went against the Qur'an, the other true, sincere scholars would be the first people to warn him/her of their mistake. The scholars who understand the Qur'an don't contradict it because why would the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) be contradicting the Qur'an? The scholars are the inheritors of the prophets, because prophets bring knowledge. Therefore the scholars wouldn't accept a hadith which went against the law of Allaah.




Allaah Almighty know's best.




Peace.

 

[Rou]

Assalamu Aleykum brother,

I would just like to first say, I think there is a difference within this conversation as to the meaning of the word Hadeeth:

When I say hadeeth, I mean with regards to the statements which have been studied and scrutanised and deemed authentic.

I think when you say hadeeth, you mean any statement attributed to the Prophet, peace be upon him, which may or may not be authentic.

I agree, with that regard that people should not accept every 'hadeeth' but only the ones that have survived the test and scrutenisation.



I agree that there are unathentic hadeeth which do contradict others and those hadeeth are to be rejected.



Remind me where I said this brother sorrry, the son of Adam forgets, may Allah forigve him. Ameen



I disagree with the part i put in bold, it is only logical sense that if you believe in that Muhammad has been sent to explain the Qu'ran that Muhammad's explanation is available for those to whom the Qu'ran was sent to.



I don't know if I have misunderstood you, but I disagree totally with this, if every person is left to understand the Qu'ran in their own way, it would equate to wrong understanding. If you wanna know why I think that ask and I will explain. Insha'Allah.



I agree some hadeeths are to be accepted and some rejected depending on their authenticity.

With regards to the underlined part, in what way are the word of the Prophet, peace be upon him, not of the same weight as the words of Allah?

With regards to the bold part, and who can say which person 'feels the full message'? You see not one person is able to explain the whole of Islaam, not after the prophet peace be upon him.



Two points,

Every hadeeth proven to be authentic is or should be accepted by all Muslims and Muslims scholers will accept those hadeeth.

Not every Muslim believes that the Qu'ran is, at this time pure and in its totality, it has reached me that some say the following please check the quotes:





Assalamu ALeykum Dear Brother,

Al Habeshi

Brother

My apologies it was within something you had stated from another source not directly from yourself... -

The two may be reconciled by noting that the prohibition applied only to the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed, lest it be confused with something else, and that permission was given at other times; or that the prohibition applied only to writing down things other than Qur’aan with the Qur’aan on one thing, and that permission was given to write them separately; of that the prohibition came first and the permission abrogated that, when there was no longer any fear of confusion. This is most likely to be the case.

There are many hadith as i stated that dont make sense if they were from allah compared to what was stated within the quran...

for one they dont have the same type of clarity as the quran...

when reading the quran many state they have a certain feeling that does not coincide with the hadiths words..no indeed this may well be there own mistake and they are as stated no scholar yet for example -

not wearing gold... where would be the logic of not mentioning such a thing even once within the varity of verses within the quran?

also stated within the hadith it is stated to use henna in our hair and beards to look diffrent from the jews..

yet there is no mention of this within the quran...

do not get me wrong these all can be explained if i tried...but in the quran there are details of everything within the world yet why would these things be left out...

the hadith talk of things such as the prophet pbuh asking for a certain group who murdered a farmer , for that group to have there arms cut off and there eyes gouged out..we know that a thiefs punishment is to have there hands cut off yet if they repent that is not the case...and it is mentioned no where to gouge out the eyes of any man nor to torture them with a slow death?




Book 016, Number 4131:

Anas reported: Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukl came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and swore allegiance to him on Islam, but found the climate of that land uncogenial to their health and thus they became sick, and they made complaint of that to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: Why don't you go to (the fold) of our camels along with our shepherd, and make use of their milk and urine. They said: Yes. They set out and drank their (camels') milk and urine and regained their health. They killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. This (news) reached Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and he sent them on their track and they were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died.​

There is no harm in following hadiths until they cause us to stray from the path of allah...no man should be allowed to reject mercy and harm another for what he beleives has been ordained in a hadeeth over what has been written in the quran for there is no comparison...​

I state not this to be a lie or the hadiths to be a lie i state that there are things that seem not to link up with the teachings of the quran and the quran is what allah has given..i suggest for us to be careful not to follow words of men over the words of allah and that is all....

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Thats why we reject what goes against the Qur'an and its also why we refer back to the Qur'an, simple as that bro. Don't know why its difficult for some u...sheesh. A note to some of u, don't bother going through that Hadiths until u have bothered to understand the Qur'an, you will only confuse urself more. Read the Qur'an, understand it, then bother trying to figure out the Hadiths. Even if u do go to the Hadiths, if there is something u dont understand, just ASK a scholar...wow...
They study for years until they have understood, and still are not perfect, who are you to say what is wrong or right when u urselves havent gotten to that point....
I'm sorry but im getting kinda annoyed. If u reject the Hadiths, dont bother praying, how else would u know how and how many to pray, what supplicatons to make...

 

[- Qatada -]

I love the way you got an open mind masha'Allaah.

Book 016, Number 4131:

Anas reported: Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukl came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and swore allegiance to him on Islam, but found the climate of that land uncogenial to their health and thus they became sick, and they made complaint of that to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: Why don't you go to (the fold) of our camels along with our shepherd, and make use of their milk and urine. They said: Yes. They set out and drank their (camels') milk and urine and regained their health. They killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. This (news) reached Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and he sent them on their track and they were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died.​

There is no harm in following hadiths until they cause us to stray from the path of allah...no man should be allowed to reject mercy and harm another for what he beleives has been ordained in a hadeeth over what has been written in the quran for there is no comparison...​

I state not this to be a lie or the hadiths to be a lie i state that there are things that seem not to link up with the teachings of the quran and the quran is what allah has given..i suggest for us to be careful not to follow words of men over the words of allah and that is all....

That's already been discussed before:


As for branding their eyes, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) branded the eyes of the people of `Ukl or `Uraina with iron because they killed the herder and branded his eyes with iron. Imam Ibn Hajar stated the differences of opinions among scholars and he said, “The killing that took place (that is, in reference to the above hadith) was in retaliation and Allah Almighty says,

‘And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you’ (Al-Baqarah: 194).”



It should be made clear that those people who came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) were Muslims and they were sick. The Prophet advised them to go to the herd of camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). When they became healthy, they killed the herder of the Prophet and drove away all the camels that were allocated for sadaqah (charity). When the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) came to know about this, he applied the punishment for Hirabah on them. Hiraba means killing people, robbing their money or raping women by an armed group of people. The punishment for Hirabah is mentioned in the Qur’an. Allah says:

“The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom” (Al-Ma’idah: 33).


That's why the punishment may have been so severe, and Allaah Almighty knows best.



http://www.islamicboard.com/364582-post22.html
​

The other points you make are hard to understand because the main issue that alot of people in this thread continously repeat is that salaah isn't fully explained within the Qur'an either. Obviously its explained in the Authentic sunnah, so if salaah is explained in the authentic sunnah - then obviously the other matters that are explained in the authentic sunnah are equally important.


Hope you understand insha'Allaah.

 

[Rou]

Thats why we reject what goes against the Qur'an and its also why we refer back to the Qur'an, simple as that bro. Don't know why its difficult for some u...sheesh. A note to some of u, don't bother going through that Hadiths until u have bothered to understand the Qur'an, you will only confuse urself more. Read the Qur'an, understand it, then bother trying to figure out the Hadiths. Even if u do go to the Hadiths, if there is something u dont understand, just ASK a scholar...wow...
They study for years until they have understood, and still are not perfect, who are you to say what is wrong or right when u urselves havent gotten to that point....
I'm sorry but im getting kinda annoyed. If u reject the Hadiths, dont bother praying, how else would u know how and how many to pray, what supplicatons to make...

? your getting annoyed? why....

i have not stated that i reject hadith yet you have got annoyed?

i have not called all hadith and the sallat a lie? yet your getting annoyed?

this is what i am reffering to that if someone does not follow hadith or does not follow all hadith should we act like this?????

no....

they follow the quran and sister...the quran has many ayats on the form of prayer...and if one man rejects that which he see's as words of men that can and are able to be mixed,forgotten and misinterprted then they are doing it to but preserve there religon not to harm it...

as i stated there is no harm in following that which we know but when that which is in the hadith crosses that which is in the quran then the qiran should be that which is followed...

indeed we can ask a scholar but in the end they are human as us all they can do is explain and if that helps then good if not then fair enough we should not condemn those who follow the quran only...where will that get us??

your anger is an example of what splits muslims today and that is hat we must forget i have heard of men beating others if they have asked for water during the fasting months and equal so if refuse to grow there beards..

this is not islam and the quicker we awaken from this type of foolishness the better off the ummah will be...

where is it stated that if one does not follow islam we should beat them? where is it stated that if one does not follow the hadith we beat them? where is its stated to show anger if one questions the hadith???

i showed an example of the gouging of eyes if that raises doubts in ones mind then be not angered instead look into the hadith more carefully...

Sister Tayabba your anger in this matter is inappropriate we are all muslim and we are but disscussing something that involves all of us...

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

lol brother, bits were to u and some to others who think that way. sorry i wasnt throwing it all at u...:hiding: Please dont judge me when u dont know me. I've always heard people talk this way and been quiet. Some people need to understand. Astaghfirullah if im one of those people who would divide the Ummah, i would never. Ive never called myself or anyone a sufi, salafi, shia sunni etc, just Muslim..May Allah have mercy on me if i ever tried too...

P.S i dont know why u brought in some of what u posted. i only read some of ur post and answered the following..
I also did not call anyone a liar or anything.