Did Jesus (p) Deny Being God?

[Ahmad]

The Torah loudly dismisses the notion that man has lost his divinely endowed capacity to freely choose good over evil, life over death. This is not a hidden or ambiguous message in the Jewish scriptures. On the contrary, it is proclaimed in virtually every teaching that Moses directs to the children of Israel.

The Prophet Moses (p) according to the Bible makes an explicit statement that a human being can turn to God and seek forgiveness. God does not hold grudges like mere humans.

Deuteronomy 30:10-14 states:


. . . if you will hearken to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law; if you turn unto the Lord thy God with all your heart and with all your soul; for this commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you neither is it too far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, and make us hear it, that we may do it?" Neither is it beyond the sea that you should say: "Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it that we may do it?" The word is very near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

Deuteronomy 30:14
But the word is very near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

Romans 10:8
But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach).


Elizabeth, who is the cousin of Mary, and her husband Zechariah as the virtuous parents of John the Baptist.
"Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly." (Luke 1:6)

In Genesis 4:6-7, God turns to Cain and warns him,

If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? If, though, you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you shall master over it.

That he shall master over it? Over what? Sin! Yes, the flesh is indeed, weak, however, with God's help all is possible.

 

[Ahmad]

Regarding Jesus(p) being God.

These verses reject such a notion. The Bible states that He was a Prophet, a man, an intecessor, a son of man, a son of God. (Metaphorically, speaking.) Jesus (p) according to the Bible was a messenger sent with a message. Not to die to redeem humanity, but to serve God and correct his people in the correct way to worship God.

John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus' words were not his.John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.
John 10:29 - "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all."
John 14:1 - Jesus said, "...believe also in me."
John 14:16, 17:1, 17:9, 17:11, 17:15 - Jesus prayed.
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands.
John 17:6-8 - "I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me."
John 20:17 - Jesus had a god.
Acts 2:22 - Jesus was "a man approved of God.
"Romans 8:34 - Jesus was an intercessor.
1 Timothy 2:5 - Jesus was the mediator between God and humans.

Isaiah states: "To whom then will you liken God? To what likeness will you compare Him?

Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim

"Say: He is ALLAH, the one and only the eternal the absolute, He begets not, nor is He begotten and there is none like unto Him."

Wa Allahu alam.
Surah 112.

 

[PrIM3]

Regarding Jesus(p) being God.

These verses reject such a notion. The Bible states that He was a Prophet, a man, an intecessor, a son of man, a son of God. (Metaphorically, speaking.) Jesus (p) according to the Bible was a messenger sent with a message. Not to die to redeem humanity, but to serve God and correct his people in the correct way to worship God.

John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus' words were not his.John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.
John 10:29 - "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all."
John 14:1 - Jesus said, "...believe also in me."
John 14:16, 17:1, 17:9, 17:11, 17:15 - Jesus prayed.
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands.
John 17:6-8 - "I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me."
John 20:17 - Jesus had a god.
Acts 2:22 - Jesus was "a man approved of God.
"Romans 8:34 - Jesus was an intercessor.
1 Timothy 2:5 - Jesus was the mediator between God and humans.

Jesus is the Word the Word cannot add unless the Speaker speaks it.. which in this case God incarnated His Word in which was perfect coming strait from God Himself...to earth born of a virgin by the Holy Spirit which is God.

those who have Faith in the Word will live by the Word.

Hebrew 1:8 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever.

Jesus speaking--Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End

 

[Ahmad]

Jesus is the Word the Word cannot add unless the Speaker speaks it.. which in this case God incarnated His Word in which was perfect coming strait from God Himself...to earth born of a virgin by the Holy Spirit which is God.

those who have Faith in the Word will live by the Word.

I understand that He (p) is the word of God. I definitely believe that as well. When Allah (swt) decrees a matter HE says to it, BE! and it is. I agree with the virgin birth and Jesus (p) coming from Allah (swt).

No argument here, Prime.

 

[Ahmad]

Bismillah

No one shares in the divinity of His Lord. The Lord is free from all imperfections. Yes, Allah's (swt) breathes His spirit into us, but that negates the fact that we are a God, in the true sense of the word.

 

[ummAbdillah]

salaam
"As he [Jesus] was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."
Mark 10:17-18.

we don't worship Jesus (peace be upon him). We worship the god that he worshiped ALLAH!!!!!

peace

 

[Nicola]

Bismillah

No one shares in the divinity of His Lord. The Lord is free from all imperfections. Yes, Allah's (swt) breathes His spirit into us, but that negates the fact that we are a God, in the true sense of the word.

Christians don't believe anyone shares in the divinity of God either.

 

[vpb]

Christians don't believe anyone shares in the divinity of God either.

doesn't the son of God and the Father share the divinity?

christians whatever have to ask for something they ask Jesus, and not the Father.

 

[PrIM3]

doesn't the son of God and the Father share the divinity?

christians whatever have to ask for something they ask Jesus, and not the Father.

no- if I understand the question correctly-- we ask the Father in the name of His Word.

 

[vpb]

Jesus is the son of God, then He is the God in flesh (part of trinity), and they don't share divine (Jesus and the Father).

hah I really don't know what is going on here

 

[PrIM3]

according to John 17:5-And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

which in Isaiah 42:8-I am the LORD; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another
or my praise to idols.

wonder why someone who isn't God is asking this same God to glorify Himself.( Jesus )

<hr>
Jesus uses the same term as David uses for the Lord God.
John 10:11-I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

Psalm 23:1-The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.


according to both John 5:27 and Matt 25:31: When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.

as in joel 3:12- Let the nations be roused;
let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
for there I will sit
to judge all the nations on every side.

Jesus uses the term for himself that He is the bridegroom clearly God uses it for himself only
Matt 25:1- At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

Hos 2:16-In that day," declares the LORD,
"you will call me 'my husband';
you will no longer call me 'my master


Jesus states He is the light of the World in which agian is the same term for God in psalm
John 8:12-When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Ps 27:1-The LORD is my light and my salvation—
whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the stronghold of my life—
of whom shall I be afraid?

 

[vpb]

according to John 17:5-And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

didn't he have the glory all the time? why he had it before , then he didn't and then he is asking again for it?

which in Isaiah 42:8-I am the LORD; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another
or my praise to idols.

first he was asking for glory from the Father, and now he is saying I will not give my glory to another?

joel 3:12- Let the nations be roused;
let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
for there I will sit
to judge all the nations on every side.

who is speaking here Jesus or the Father?

Jesus states He is the light of the World in which agian is the same term for God in psalm
John 8:12-When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

You said that there is no share of divine between Jesus and the Father? how come now he is speaking with the authority of being God?

Ps 27:1-The LORD is my light and my salvation—
whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the stronghold of my life—
of whom shall I be afraid?

Whoever is talking in this verse, he is saying that his salvation is to Jesus and he fears him? Where is the Father? I guess in this verse the Father's authority is lost.

P.S Prim3 don't be offended for my opinions that I am expressing

 

[PrIM3]

didn't he have the glory all the time? why he had it before , then he didn't and then he is asking again for it?
He was asking in reasurrance.. instead of being humiliated by people He would get the glory and honor that God only deserves


first he was asking for glory from the Father, and now he is saying I will not give my glory to another?
no this is in the Isaiah 42:8-I ( in old testement) where first God says He will not give His glory to anyone... ---then the John 17:5( New Testement ) where Jesus ask for glory surely if Jesus wasn't God or wasn't part of the Triunity He wouldn't have asked for glory.


who is speaking here Jesus or the Father?
joel 3:12-God is speaking in that verse


You said that there is no share of divine between Jesus and the Father? how come now he is speaking with the authority of being God?
I really have no knowledge of this.. i was just answering you about prayer.. how we ask Jesus instead of the Father... in which when I pray I like to open up with Father God--- then close in His Son Jesus Christ name...


Whoever is talking in this verse, he is saying that his salvation is to Jesus and he fears him? Where is the Father? I guess in this verse the Father's authority is lost.
in Ps 27:1 David is talking about the Lord God

P.S Prim3 don't be offended for my opinions that I am expressing
of course I won't be offended...why would I be?

 

[vpb]

glory surely if Jesus wasn't God or wasn't part of the Triunity He wouldn't have asked for glory.

as I can see you're saying with this statement that Jesus is part of trinity, but u said that there is no share of divine between Father and Jesus? How come he is part of Trinity when he does not share the divine?

who is speaking here Jesus or the Father?
joel 3:12-God is speaking in that verse

God (trinity) or Jesus?

 

[PrIM3]

as I can see you're saying with this statement that Jesus is part of trinity, but u said that there is no share of divine between Father and Jesus? How come he is part of Trinity when he does not share the divine?


God (trinity) or Jesus?

well sharing in my dictionary means that two people share something.. but the living Jesus is a part of the living Father just like the living Holy Spirit is a part of Him..


and the verse it is God( Trinity )

 

[Ahmad]

Christians don't believe anyone shares in the divinity of God either.

Bismillah

Peace, Nicola.

The Athanasian Creed says different.

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity."

"So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord."

All of the Christians I come in contact with do claim that the essence of Jesus (p) is of God and His Holy spirit. Except for the non-Trinitarian Christians, i.e Unitarians, J.W's.

 

[Ahmad]

well sharing in my dictionary means that two people share something.. but the living Jesus is a part of the living Father just like the living Holy Spirit is a part of Him..


and the verse it is God( Trinity )

Bismillah

Merely, because they share something does not make something part of it. We are all created by God, but do we share in God's power. No!


"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

John 17:3

If we were to read the Bible we would find that long after the departure of Jesus, his faithful followers continued to "keep up their daily attendance at the Temple" (Acts 2:46) It would be beyond belief to imagine that had Jesus indeed preached to his apostles that he was God, and if Jesus had indeed commanded them to forsake the commandments, that they would then disregard all of this and continue to worship in a Jewish synagogue on a daily basis, let alone the great Temple itself. It is further beyond belief that the Jews of the Temple would stand idly by and allow them to do this if they were preaching the total cancellation of the law of Moses and that Jesus was God.

Can any Trinitarian Christian, even in their wildest fantasies, imagine that the Jews in an orthodox Jewish synagogue would stand idly by while he took out his cross and prayed to Jesus in the midst of their synagogue and was publicly calling others to worship Jesus and forsake the commandments? How much more preposterous to imagine that they would have nothing to say to someone who did that in their most sacred of all synagogues, the Temple, on a daily basis yet. This is further evidence in support of the Qur'an, that Jesus only called his followers to a continuation of the religion of Moses and not by any means to the total cancellation and destruction of that law.

"Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no savior." Isaiah 43:10-11.

." As we just read, the first definition of the Trinity was put forth in the fourth century as follows: "...we worship one God in the trinity, and Trinity in Unity...for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one... they are not three gods, but one God... the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal...he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the trinity..." (excerpts from the Athanasian creed).

 

[Ahmad]

no- if I understand the question correctly-- we ask the Father in the name of His Word.

Bismillah

When a Christians prays they pray in the name of Jesus (p).

i.e. in the name of Jesus. Amen.

 

[Ahmad]

If Jesus was a man, he ate, breathed air, bled, he drank, how could he be God? He was a man. Correct? If he was God, how could he have been sent by the Father in heaven? Allah, taught his prophets to hear his words, which are just.So if he was listening to Allah, how could he be Allah? Makes sense to me.

Bismillah

There were a multitude of competing ieologies surrounding the nature of Isa (as). Nestorianism: Of or relating to the theological doctrine, declared heretical in 431, that within Jesus are two distinct persons, divine and human, rather than a single divine person.

Monopysitism: An adherent of the doctrine that in the person of Jesus there was but a single, divine nature. Coptic and Syrian Christians profess this doctrine.

Hypostatic Union: Jesus is both God and man in one person.

The Majority of Christendom adheres to the last.

 

[Ahmad]

"O people of the book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was [no more or less than] a messenger of Allah, and His word, which he bestowed upon Mary, and a spirit preceding from Him: so believe in Allah and his messengers. Say not "Three": desist!, it is better for you, for Allah is one god, Glory be to Him, Far exalted is He above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and the earth. And enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs."

The noble Qur'an, Al-Nissah(4):171