Did Jesus (p) Deny Being God?

god said:
islamgyal said:
bro god. i think you need to know the difference between wht muzlims believe and what christians believe cause i know there is a way big difference, like as muzlims they don't believe that Jesus is the son of god whereas the christians do so there you go there is a bid difference so i would suggess if you understad the differences what muzlims believe and what christian believe :)

if you have any questions plz feel free to ask :p

take care[/QUOT

i know all too well what moslems believe. i also get tired of moslem doubletalk
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bro but at the end of the day fair enuf but then again you to know what muzlims believe and what the don't!

take care
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islamgyal said:
well sis the proof that bro al mu'min has gave you shows it all its just that you don't believe it sis cause at the end of the day if you don't believe this then am so sorry to say that you think were lieing:heated: :heated:

please sis refer to what bro al mu'min said cause like i said with out proof theres no poin saying stuff that is NOT true please try to understand :)

and i understand as you a christian is hard to believ cause it was hard for me but then again alot of christian believe that the bible was changed

but then again sis what can i say if you don't believe this :heated:

take care
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fair enough you have no proof other than the Quran.
 
Nicola said:
fair enough you have no proof other than the Quran.
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Nicola,
I didn't want to repeate my self but...

Look at what the Bible said:
"How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes even clearer:
"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had unfortunately turned the Bible into a lie.

See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.

The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.

Is that from the Quran?? You claim you believe in every word of the bible is true right? So will you accept it?

Please open your heart and mind and listen to what God is telling you. Verify the word of God for yourself.

Allah in the Quran says:
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." (Quran 17:36)

May Allah giude us all.

Peace sister.
 
sis now there you go thats the proof and sis please just try to understand that the bible ''was'' changed :)

take care
 
Al-Mu'min said:
Nicola,
I didn't want to repeate my self but...

Look at what the Bible said:
"How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes even clearer:
"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had unfortunately turned the Bible into a lie.
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Firstly I need to ask you, do you understand what a scribe is?

Do you fully understand the book of Jeremiah?
and to whom he was speaking of, in these verse's?


See Also Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.

The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.

Is that from the Quran?? You claim you believe in every word of the bible is true right? So will you accept it?

Please open your heart and mind and listen to what God is telling you. Verify the word of God for yourself.

Allah in the Quran says:
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." (Quran 17:36)

May Allah giude us all.

Peace sister.
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Deu 31:25 Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD,

Deu 31:26 "Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

Do you realise this means?...the book will be a witness, that these people will fall away from the Law of God (Bible) in years to come?

and indeed they did...fall away from Gods law and still do.

Deu 31:27 For I know how rebellious and stubborn you are. Behold, even today while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the LORD. How much more after my death!

He is telling them here, he knows they have already fallen away from the Law of the Book and they will be more rebellious after his death...and yes they where...again..

Deu 31:28 Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears and call heaven and earth to witness against them.

And here he asks for wittness's that what he says will come true.

Deu 31:29 For I know that after my death you will surely act corruptly and turn aside from the way that I have commanded you. And in the days to come evil will befall you, because you will do what is evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking him to anger through the work of your hands."

Again...the book was put away...so in future years...they would understand and see how they had fell away from the Book of Law (Bible)

I really don't see how you have read these scriptures from Moses please explain, that it means...the Book of Law has been corrupted?



Thankyou for your concern...I really mean that...But I know what God is telling me...I received a vison from Jesus 2 years ago..this April and have since been lead by the Holy Spirit.....and it as changed my life forever.

So the scripture you have quoted yes I believe those. But they do not mean what you take them to mean..these scriptures do not back up your claim.
 
Nicola said:
I've put them in my favs to read later...thanks

please explain how you come to understand Deuteronomy 31:25-29.

and do you know what a scribe is?
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Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
This is how that verse goes:

"And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites(Jews), which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. (Deuteronomy 31:25-29)"


A scribe is someone employed to make written manuscripts and documents.
 
Al-Mu'min said:
Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
This is how that verse goes:

For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. (Deuteronomy 31:25-29)"


A scribe is someone employed to make written manuscripts and documents.
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the verse simply means that people will provoke the Lord to anger because they will worship idols.... look at 4:28 There you will worship man-made gods of wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or eat or smell.
 
Al-Mu'min, I read your link concerning Daniel. I wanted to ask which one of the two accounts given in the link is a lie and which one is true.

Thanks
Nimrod
 
2.40. O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.

2.41. And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

2.42. And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).

Nicole, Allah swt knew that they were chaning the words, and that's why he said then that no one can change his word, and that is the Qur'an, but if u just think logically, he was just testing people, who is going to sell his words for cheap price and who not, and this is all the point of living in this life

2.37. Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

2.38. We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

2.39. "But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."

there is no more to talk about this, these verses explain everything :)
 
Skillganon I have been studying the site you cited.

This is what it say's:

The concept of "worship" as defined by Webster’s dictionary is not Hebraic in any way and is not found in the Bible. We would be better off to remove the idea of "worship" from our Biblical vocabulary and replace it with "bow down".

If I am following your arguement correctly the Hebrews had no language or word to express the thought of worshipping God verses a Idol or bowing down to a man.

Your arguement is that no where in the original Hebrew there is no way of knowing which meaning the Hebrews were using for which verse.

Is that correct?

Thanks
Nimrod
 
Skillganon before you go much futher, could you revisit this:

What I want to focus on is this:
Each creature has four faces. Let’s just say for the sake of having an example of things existing outside our earthly examples that we pretend that there is but one of these creatures and it is god. (I know it’s not, but humor me).Now we can say God is ONE. We can also say God is Four.
Is one Face of God any less God than any other Face?
Is One face dominant over the three other faces? (Scripture say’s that when it moves. It moves straight ahead. It doesn’t say that three faces turn this way or that way to see which is the correct direction).Let’s assume that the Four Faced creature has a spirit/soul, that like all other souls is un-seen, and that being is God so the spirit has to be Holy. Does that now make it 5 in 1?Answer these questions with scripture and then you can speak with authority on the subject.

You kind of glossed over it.

Thanks
Nimrod
 
Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.
This is how that verse goes:

"And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites(Jews), which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
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(Deuteronomy 31:25-29)"


As Prime already stated work of your hands...you do everything with your hands..including making false gods...this verse is not about changing the Book of the Law...The book of the Law had been locked away..no one is allowed to touch that book..only the high priests...here Moses is talking about the commom people...and all the evil they would do when he had died.
And they did.


A scribe is someone employed to make written manuscripts and documents
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The verse you gave me has been taken out of context...from the whole message...Jeremiah was the first book I studied and reminded me so much of the world we live in today!

When God came to Jeremiah as a child and placed in his heart the messages to tell Gods choosen people that they must turn away from their wicked ways...and stop worshiping false gods...God told Jeremiah to tell them if they didn't change their ways...they would suffer his great wrath
Jerimah meet with great opposition..the king would not listen to him...instead the king listened to the scribes and false prohets...who told him and Gods people...everything was OK...These lying teachers where telling the people "peace, peace" although the true prophet tells them there is no peace and will be no peace.
God has announced His judgment on Jerusalem for its idolatery and disobedience. The enemies are coming and God will NOT help. This verse has nothing to do with altering the books, it has to do with teaching false practices and giving false prophecies and saying these are based on the Lord's law. The law of God which clearly speaks of punishement for sin is disregarded and the people are told about the promises of God's goodness -- which are in the Law too, but each has its conditions.

The "lying pen of the scribes" is guilty not of changing the text of the law, but of false application of it. They are giving the wrong interpreation out of personal greed and because they fear men more than God. In effect, Jeremiah says that they don't "have" the Law because they don't KEEP the Law. It is not the physical presence of the Law or of the Temple that will avert God's wrath, but only obedience to his word. They did not corrupt the physical text of it, but they "handled" it falsel as 8:8 says.

Jer 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

These scribes or false prophets would not have even been allowed anywhere near the Holy scrolls.

If the text they were working with hadn't been the Law anymore, then they could not have been accused of mishandling it.

If you can try and hire the film of Jeremiah...it will put it all into context for you...what these liars where trying to do..and what happened to them in the end.

Peace and God Bless
nic
 
PrIM3 and Nicola,
Hello once again. Thanks for the notes.

About Detronomy, please read the whole verse carefully.

"And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites(Jews), which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. (Deuteronomy 31:25-29)"

Moses[pbuh] was talking about the book of the Law and he commanded the Levites(Jews) to take care of it(Torah). He further not how the Jews where corrupt while he was alive, and he feared that they will corrupt the book by the works of thier hands after his death. So that is why he stressed them to take care of the book.

Nicola you told me, that i shouldn't take things out of context. I didn't. In the begginng of the above verse, Moses is commanding them to take care of the Book, because as he predicted, the Jews revoked the anger of God by the works of their hands( i.e rewriting/tampering the book).

Moses is not talking about the other things people do with thier hands. That will be out of context.

I hope you have a better understanding of what I was trying to point out.

May God giude us all,
Peace and Blessings.
 
nimrod said:
Al-M'umin before you go much futher, could you revisit this:

What I want to focus on is this:
Each creature has four faces. Let’s just say for the sake of having an example of things existing outside our earthly examples that we pretend that there is but one of these creatures and it is god. (I know it’s not, but humor me).Now we can say God is ONE. We can also say God is Four.
Is one Face of God any less God than any other Face?
Is One face dominant over the three other faces? (Scripture say’s that when it moves. It moves straight ahead. It doesn’t say that three faces turn this way or that way to see which is the correct direction).Let’s assume that the Four Faced creature has a spirit/soul, that like all other souls is un-seen, and that being is God so the spirit has to be Holy. Does that now make it 5 in 1?Answer these questions with scripture and then you can speak with authority on the subject.

You kind of glossed over it.

Thanks
Nimrod
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Brother Nimrod,
First of all, this is a very good statement and question. I thank you very much for asking. It's not O.K to just have blind faith.

In your statement above your are talking about how three things can be one and still be three right(i.e the trinity)?

Let us start and analyse this. Both the Noble Quran and the Bible claim that GOD Almighty is an Absolute One and only One:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 12:29)"

Notice also how Jesus said "our God", which included him to be under GOD Almighty's creation and Divine Authority, and not someone or an entity that is equal to GOD Almighty

The Bible's New Testament also records Jesus saying: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"



If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?

I have yet to see a good answer to this one by any polytheist trinitarian.

Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word "alone": ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone". If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that


Answering the Trinity:

Trinitarian Christians often refer to trinity as the "Holy Trinity". A very powerful statement indeed for a word that doesn't even exist, not even once, in the Bible!!

These are facts contradicting the idea of the trinity:
1- Jesus said he had no Divine Will.
2- Jesus' repetitive Prayers contradicted his very own teachings.
3- Jesus begged GOD Almighty for Mercy.
4- Jesus prostrated to GOD Almighty only once during his most desperate times! This is hypocrisy by the way.
5- GOD Almighty Created pain and death, and yet, Jesus feared them.
6- The GOD of the O.T. Punishes to death those who cursed HIS HOLY NAME. How could Jesus escape to Egypt from King Herod and still be this Mighty and Arrogant GOD?
7- In original Hebrew, "son of GOD" literally means "SERVANT OF GOD".
8- What about the authority in Heaven and Earth that was given to Jesus?
9- None of Jesus' Miracles were unique in the Bible.

I can discuss all of the nine statements above in detail if you like. Just pick out one and we can discuss it thoroughly.

After reading all of this, do you still have the slightest doubt that Jesus is only a creation of GOD Almighty and a great Prophet? Do you still believe in the biggest lie satan ever invented, which is the polytheist trinity paganism?

Embrace Islam, the True and Divine Religion of GOD Almighty, and you will be saved! Islam is very simple and requires no mediators between you and your Creator. If you believe in the Absolute One and Living GOD Almighty and associate no partners (gods, idols, human, etc...) with Him, then you have become a Muslim. You do not need to believe in satan's invented LIES about believing in a mediator (Jesus or anyone else) to be between you and your Creator. You have been given the irrevocable Divine Right to have a straight and direct relationship with GOD Almighty:

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"

"It was We Who Created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. (The Noble Quran, 50:16)"

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"Then Praise be to Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earth- Lord and Cherisher of all the worlds! To Him be Glory throughout the heavens and the earth: and He is Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom!. (The Noble Quran, 45:36-37)"

"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

As you've also seen above, the Biblical "Son of God" is only an invented LIE about GOD Almighty having children, Divine Children. In the original Hebrew, "son of GOD" literally means "Servant of GOD". GOD Almighty Has no sons and no partners. Everything beside Him is a creation.

Towards better understanding,
peace and blessings.
Thank you.
 

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