Disappointment with God

[Ramadhan]

i find the term mangod really disrespectful, we all know who you are referring to and its not the proper way. dont hurt your own iman for the sake of an argument.

I am sorry but I don't understand you.

AFAIK, You have not voiced your objection to christians making a man as god (which is the worst thing a human can do, and is guaranteed for eternal punishment, as described in the scriptures), in fact, in a couple of your recent posts you said you could understand the concept of trinity and original sin (which is a highly questionable if not laughable for someone who claim to be a muslim), but you have a problem with us calling it as it is?

christians worship jesus pbuh as god.
Jesus pbuh is a man.
--> Christian worship the idea of a mangod.

 

[truth finder]

you answered basically a question i didnt ask. what you are saying is that believeing in jesus' crucifixion brings you close to God therefore all true christians believers are close to God?

I apologize you if I answered a totally different question from your original one. I hope my new answer to be not totally irrelevant this time.

First of all you need to understand what righteousness means. Righteousness is a state where one can stand with God without any harm. Only when people have the righteousness of God, they can come close to God. This is possible if the person is perfectly sinless or has obeyed all of God’s perfect laws without fail. Unfortunately the believers of most religions struggle hard to reach this unachievable high standard by increasing the number of good deeds to compensate their past mistakes and sins in the balance of judgement. Because God’s laws are perfect, it is considered as broken when one fails to carry out all of them. “‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant (Leviticus 26:14-15) Although the intention is good, this human effort is bound to fail. However, God knows we are incapable of being perfect and sinless. He knows we are weak so that it is an impossible task for the sinful to achieve righteousness in their own effort. Out of His compassion and love for us, He Himself decided to come down to earth from heaven in order to give us Himself as righteousness. We become righteous by receiving Jesus as the righteousness of God (or as the forgiveness of God for our sins), not by trying to obey all of God’s perfect laws without fail or by increasing the number of good deeds to compensate our past mistakes and sins. This is a fundamental between Christian faith and all the other religions of the world.

 

[siam]

Your definition of "Righteousness" is a Christian definition---based on the idea of original sin which posits that human beings are created inherently sinful. This means that to buy into your argument, one has to first accept the proposition of "original sin". However, since this is a purely Christian invention and no other religions buys into this idea----your argument doesn't apply/is irrelevant.

And "God's Laws"???---comming from a Christian who does not follow the Halaka, the very Laws Jesus Christ(pbuh) himself followed?---such as not eating pork??????

 

[Ramadhan]

And "God's Laws"???---comming from a Christian who does not follow the Halaka, the very Laws Jesus Christ(pbuh) himself followed?---such as not eating pork??????

Yep.
"God's laws" in christian terms is such an oxymoron.
what laws? christian have abrogated almost all of the laws that even Jesus followed.
As long as you accept that Jesus died to pay your sins, then all is well, and you should be full of joy because you are granted paradise.
No need to follow cumbersome laws that prohibit fornication, extra-marital sex, drinking, homosexuality, eating pork,etc etc and laws that regulate dress code, worships, etc. etc.

 

[truth finder]

Your definition of "Righteousness" is a Christian definition---based on the idea of original sin which posits that human beings are created inherently sinful. This means that to buy into your argument, one has to first accept the proposition of "original sin". However, since this is a purely Christian invention and no other religions buys into this idea----your argument doesn't apply/is irrelevant.

And "God's Laws"???---comming from a Christian who does not follow the Halaka, the very Laws Jesus Christ(pbuh) himself followed?---such as not eating pork??????

Thanks for your comment. The definition of righteousness is deducted by examining Torah carefully. Please read Torah carefully with the mind that you would look for the righteousness of God. Here God’s laws mainly refer to the Ten Commandments given to Moses by God, and some other laws.

In the Bible time God chose Israel as His object lesson for the whole world. To distinguish His own people from the rest, God gave them some visible instructions to follow. One of them was their strict diet and pork was forbidden to eat. Another well-known practice was circumcision on the flesh. Simply by observing what they eat, other people would know who are Israelites and who are not (gentiles). But when Jesus Christ finished his earthly mission as the perfect Lamb of God for our sins, the curtain in the temple was torn apart. This symbolizes tearing down the high barrier between God and people, between Israelites and gentiles. Now the true distinction between God’s people and the rest is determined by their heart, not by something external or on the outside such as the diet habit or the circumcision on the flesh.

In fact, some Muslims asked me this question in the past, “Do you eat pork?” The following was my honest answer to them. Personally I like seafood more than meat. If I order the preference of meat, it goes chicken, beef and pork. Pork is the least likely meat I would choose, but I do eat pork. As I have a loving fellowship with God as the Friend and Lover, my conscience in my heart tells me that all foods are clean and no food is unclean. What makes people unclean is what goes into their heart, not what goes into their stomach. In fact Jesus already stated this in the Gospel. Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") (Mark 7:18-19) What makes people unclean is what goes into their heart, not what goes into their stomach. The heart of matter is the matter of heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

 

[جوري]

In fact Jesus already stated this in the Gospel. Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") (Mark 7:18-19)

It wasn't Jesus at all who uttered those words and I invite you to reference them back to him.. and if you construe that 'Jesus' is god, then it would make him a very ignorant god, because plenty of what enters man is NOT ONLY UNCLEAN but can cause death in a matter of three days!
surely a god would know that and advise the people 'he so loves' against an immediate doom!


all the best

 

[YusufNoor]

In fact, some Muslims asked me this question in the past, “Do you eat pork?” The following was my honest answer to them. Personally I like seafood more than meat. If I order the preference of meat, it goes chicken, beef and pork. Pork is the least likely meat I would choose, but I do eat pork. As I have a loving fellowship with God as the Friend and Lover, my conscience in my heart tells me that all foods are clean and no food is unclean. What makes people unclean is what goes into their heart, not what goes into their stomach. In fact Jesus already stated this in the Gospel. Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") (Mark 7:18-19) What makes people unclean is what goes into their heart, not what goes into their stomach. The heart of matter is the matter of heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

:heated::heated::heated:

Christians are so funny!

quoting the author of Mark:

Mark 7:18-19 (New International Version)

18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

that little enlarged part is NOT part of the text!

what's even funnier is a few verses before it:

What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

now Christians often[not all Christians, ask Hiroshi] use this verse to declare ALL FOODS "clean." think about this...

are you ready Purest?

i use foul language [let's say] and naidamar does not...

does this mean that naidamar can be eaten for dinner because he is clean and i can't because i'm not???

ridiculous! ;D

the verses are about whether or not you are truly following the religion, NOT what you can eat!

shheeesh! mg:

peace

 

[IAmZamzam]

Still planning to get around to addressing me, truth finder?

 

[truth finder]

If a certain act is considered sinful, it always creates urge or desire to disgrace God, nor hurt other people or themselves physically and emotionally. For example, taking drug is sinful because it destroys the body and mind of the person. Stealing money from somebody is sinful because it hurts the victim financially and emotionally. It is very interesting to see that most readers are so sensitive to eating pork. Is this because eating pork does create a lust or sexual desire to commit sin? Is this because eating pork does create a temper to curse and hurt other people? Is this because eating pork does create a desire to deny God or question God's words? Is this because eating pork does create an urge to disobey God? But eating pork does none of these for non-Muslims. Pork is just fat and protein. From nutritional and hygienic points of view there are many other foods worse than pork. What makes people unclean is what goes into our heart, not what goes into our stomach. The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

 

[جوري]

If a certain act is considered sinful, it always creates urge or desire to disgrace God, nor hurt other people or themselves physically and emotionally. For example, taking drug is sinful because it destroys the body and mind of the person. Stealing money from somebody is sinful because it hurts the victim financially and emotionally. It is very interesting to see that most readers are so sensitive to eating pork. Is this because eating pork does create a lust or sexual desire to commit sin? Is this because eating pork does create a temper to curse and hurt other people? Is this because eating pork does create a desire to deny God or question God's words? Is this because eating pork does create an urge to disobey God? But eating pork does none of these for non-Muslims. Pork is just fat and protein. From nutritional and hygienic points of view there are many other foods worse than pork. What makes people unclean is what goes into our heart, not what goes into our stomach. The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

pork and pigs in general can cause a laundry list of maladies that are too numerous to list in one thread, and though similar but not worse problems can arise from others foods, we are forbidden from consuming anything that may cause harm-- all there needs to be for a prohibition to take hold is for God to order it be!
Love comes in several forms and one of them is living by God's commands and not simply assuming and taking for granted that he loves sinfulness because you decided so against what it says in the books!

all the best

 

[GuestFellow]

It is very interesting to see that most readers are so sensitive to eating pork. Is this because eating pork does create a lust or sexual desire to commit sin? Is this because eating pork does create a temper to curse and hurt other people? Is this because eating pork does create a desire to deny God or question God's words? Is this because eating pork does create an urge to disobey God?

Please consider reading this article.

 

[truth finder]

Thanks for your comment. Just now I googled to find which nation or which group has the longest life expectancy in the world. None of countries that avoid eating pork (Muslim countries) belong to this category! Instead, people belonging to the societies having very long life expectancy turn out to maintain a variety of diet including pork and moderate amount of alcohol! Just google it by yourself if you cannot believe me. The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

 

[جوري]

Thanks for your comment. Just now I googled to find which nation or which group has the longest life expectancy in the world. None of countries that avoid eating pork (Muslim countries) belong to this category! Instead, people belonging to the societies having very long life expectancy turn out to maintain a variety of diet including pork and moderate amount of alcohol! Just google it by yourself if you cannot believe me. The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

life expectancy isn't contingent on eating pigs and drinking liquor- other factors come to play. Water/Medicine living conditions.
You'd be interested to know that 'Mormons' the other group of christians you deem heretics have an even longer life expectancy because they don't consume alcohol or smoke cigarettes ..
here is an article from the New England Journal of Medicine:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM197601152940303

you don't want to take me on that road, believe me, you'll not come out a winner!

all the best

 

[GuestFellow]

Thanks for your comment. Just now I googled to find which nation or which group has the longest life expectancy in the world. None of countries that avoid eating pork (Muslim countries) belong to this category! Instead, people belonging to the societies having very long life expectancy turn out to maintain a variety of diet including pork and moderate amount of alcohol!

So pork and alcohol is an indicator of life expectancy? :uuh:

In case you have not realised, many Muslim countries are poor, where the citizens do not have access to clean water, live in poor conditions and do not have access to medical facilities.

Just google it by yourself if you cannot believe me. The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart, not the matter of protein and fat![/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

Post a link to back up your claim.

 

[truth finder]

life expectancy isn't contingent on eating pigs and drinking liquor- other factors come to play. Water/Medicine living conditions.
You'd be interested to know that 'Mormons' the other group of christians you deem heretics have an even longer life expectancy because they don't consume alcohol or smoke cigarettes ..
here is an article from the New England Journal of Medicine:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM197601152940303

you don't want to take me on that road, believe me, you'll not come out a winner!

all the best

Let us compare apple to apple. Take Muslim countries in the North Africa and Middle East, which strictly avoid eating pork. Take Western European countries, which eat a variety of food including pork and moderate amount of alcohol. Do I need to waste my time digging into internet to find which society has much longer life expectancy?

 

[جوري]

Let us compare apple to apple. Take Muslim countries in the North Africa and Middle East, which strictly avoid eating pork. Take Western European countries, which eat a variety of food including pork and moderate amount of alcohol. Do I need to waste my time digging into internet to find which society has much longer life expectancy?

'Muslim countries' in the middle east make up only 20% of the Muslim population world wide.. indeed you'd need to 'waste your time' to back up your inane allegations. I'll definitely be waiting on the report that shows how neurocysticercosis beats out beans and rice.. and while at it, you might want to familiarize yourself with who Muslims are. Muslims are in every country, and you'd be surprised that the the largest population of Muslims is neither in the middle east nor Africa. You are so incredibly under-educated it is almost an insult to engage you at all!

all the best

 

[Insaanah]

Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") (Mark 7:18-19)

Since when does clean = allowed? Nowhere in this passage does Jesus (peace be upon him) say that all food is lawful, and the parenthesis have been added afterwards and are not part of the original text. There are other foods that were forbidden to the Children of Israel, but not on the account of being unclean. If you look up the word clean in a dictionary, you will not find any definition of it that states that it means lawful. Also, let's go back in the same passage in Mark and see what Jesus (peace be upon him) says to the pharisees:

And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ (Mark 7:6-7)

Current day Christians are doing exactly the same, by worshipping Jesus (peace be upon him) and following the commandment of a man as a result of his dream!

Peace.

 

[جوري]

Current day Christians are doing exactly the same, by following the commandment of a man as a result of his dream!

Everything about Christians has turned into a joke including how they reason, can you believe the moronity of this fellow, thinking 'life expectancy' denotes that eating pigs and drinking liquor is best?

perhaps he should consider the following:

more Muslims in Germany than in Lebanon and more in China than in Syria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

perhaps further looking into his own claims, since countries like kuwait and united Arab Emirates have an even longer life expectancy than their western counter-part.. perhaps in his pea sized brain containing two cells held together by a blessed spirochete will enable him the notion that socio-economic conditions and not pigs and liquor is the determining factor in that 'life expectancy' span that has so amused him..

 

[GuestFellow]

Do I need to waste my time digging into internet to find which society has much longer life expectancy?

Of course, what you are suggesting is absolutely ridiculous. I would like to see prove of this.

 

[truth finder]

So pork and alcohol is an indicator of life expectancy? :uuh:

In case you have not realised, many Muslim countries are poor, where the citizens do not have access to clean water, live in poor conditions and do not have access to medical facilities.



Post a link to back up your claim.

You misunderstand my point completely. I am not saying that the consumption of pork and alcohol increases life expectancy, but I am saying that the strict banning of pork and alcohol for the sake of health is grossly unjustified. It is better not to mention it, because it is to your disadvantage.