Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

[AvarAllahNoor]

We arent talkin bout India/Pakistan and that it happened. Yes it is a totally different topic. So one should not generalise is the point. I hope hunnah is not what i think it is. If it is, then refrain from saying it, thank you.

Peace

Hannah means OK, thought you had an understanding of panjabi, clearly not. In future I'll not be amicable.

Pray tell what you think it means though.....? :rollseyes

Conversions took place and they do so today all over the world, some by choice and some by force not just muslims but others too.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

I am not from Punjab, however if what you said is true, I would be pleased, no, rathar proud that my forefathers were killed and their children became Muslim. It was a case of generations after generations entering Hell, so someone cut off that chain and thus now it is a generation upon generation of people who will enter Paradise Insha'Allaah.

I have no problem if my forefathers were killed by Muslims and their children came to Islaam. It would give me a sense of happiness to know that through the efforts of those that did that to my forefathers, I am following the Truth today. Enough said.

A stone in the water is surrounded by water yet if you break open the stone it shall remain dry, because the water has not penertrated it. Same with religion. You're surrounded by the truth, yet it fails to penetrate your heart and mind...

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

A stone in the water is surrounded by water yet if you break open the stone it shall remain dry, because the water has not penertrated it. Same with religion. You're surrounded by the truth, yet it fails to penetrate your heart and mind...:D

And indeed, there are stones out of which rivers gush forth, and indeed, there are of them which split asunder so that water flows from them, and indeed, there are of them (stones) which fall down for fear of Allah.

Eat and enjoy, and remain preoccupied with your hopes, you will come to know my freind. Man is ever more quarrelsome than anything.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Eat and enjoy, and remain preoccupied with your hopes, you will come to know my freind. Man is ever more quarrelsome than anything.

Indeed brother! :statisfie

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Hannah means OK, thought you had an understanding of panjabi, clearly not. In future I'll not be amicable.

Pray tell what you think it means though.....? :rollseyes

Conversions took place and they do so today all over the world, some by choice and some by force not just muslims but others too.

only hannah i know is hain naa. i used to say hannah wen i was lil...when i didnt speak well. Im no expert at Punjabi, my parents speak fluently. ANYWAYZ.

 

[- Qatada -]

Well you are right, nobody can be with God on their own or force them into being with God. It takes a lot of reverence on God's name and it takes God's own will to be with God. What you do, as a Muslim, is simply karma. Karma can only help you or hurt you during reincarnation. But it will not help you being united with God.

Shall i repeat my question again? I never asked about being with God by His permission, rather i asked how a person can truely understand what is 'right and wrong' if the person doesn't even have any guidelines from their religion.

This is what i said:

That's kind of hard to accept since one can't be with God in the hereafter if he/she doesn't know the guidelines? Yet it's so widely open to interpretation? However, if someone crosses these boundaries, then they're in danger of not fulfilling the purpose of their creation?

Among Sikhs, I have never heard of someone in his 40's marrying a nine year old. Even if it were, it wouldn't be considered acceptable by majority of the people. So the issue here is an older adult marrying a child, not a child marrying a child.

Well i never asked that either:

I asked for evidence from your religious sources, an opinion doesn't mean anything. Because another person can simply state another opinion.

Apparently, as per the definition, a child is still a child even if s/he had menses or wet dreams.

That doesn't mean anything, where is your proof for that scientifically? What do menses or wet dreams actually represent? It mean's that the girl is old enough to produce offspring [because the blood from the menses means a cycle has just been completed and the egg disposed of], and the boy is producing sperm [thats why the fluid actually came out.]

They can get there if they try but it's still with grace of God that they can get to that level, not on their own. It can happen in couple of ways. First if God helps them Himself or if they find a true guru but in both cases grace of God is needed. There is nothing we can do without grace of God.

According to sikhis, who does God pick out of all the people? And why? And what if there are no sikhis in that part of the world, i.e. the North Pole?

Yes whatever distracts your concentration. But for those whose concentration is so solid, it probably doesn't get distracted by eating chocolate

And in marriage he can't love his wife right? Because lust is a vice.

Nobody is saying it's required. But it's a good idea if you like to get out of this cycle of re-incarnation.

If someone does bad, are they not responsible infront of God for their own actions?

Well if I could be a true Sikh, I would have been connected with God already. But I do know that whatever I doing trying to be a good Sikh, is at least not earning me bad karma. I am sorry to say this but I feel that Muslims today are earning bad karma because how mind is set even if you don't take action based upon your beliefs. I especially feel for Punjabi Muslims. You guys are missing something so beautiful as Sikhi, which you could follow if your ancestors didn't gave in to forceful conversion.

How come Punjabis' only? What about the other races, aren't they equally as important? Which also leads to the question - is the guru granth sahib in any other language apart from punjabi? I'd like to check it out plz.

Salvation can only be achieved through Sikhi only.

So what about anyone before guru nanak, according to sikhis they're not successful and without guidance? Which means they could never be with God, according to sikhis?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

is the guru granth sahib in any other language apart from punjabi? I'd like to check it out plz.
?

1430 pages is dificult to tranaslate into english with correct let-alone into other languages. I can find some links fo Hindi and Urdu. The russians are in the process of translating the SGGS in russian too, because they love the divine message.

 

[- Qatada -]

lol i dno urdu propa ^ can i just ask though, how long's it been since the guru granth sahib was written?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

lol i dno urdu propa ^ can i just ask though, how long's it been since the guru granth sahib was written?

Roughly between 1563 – 1606- I'll get you an accurate date when I'm not being watched like a hawk at work.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ,

Sikh scripture is more of spiritual guidance and doesn't tell people how to live their personal lives

------If Islam tells its followers how to live , what to do in certain conditions , what's wrong with that ?

If the wife is suffering, if the husband finds another woman to satisfy his sexual needs, he is not a true partner

---In Islam , it's not compulsory for a husband to re-marry . If he wants to take care of wife & can stay like bachelor , he can do it. But what if he can't ?



Man made law is forcing him to divorce his sick wife or go for adultery . Islam is giving here a logical solution. If he fears that he can't act justly , then he won't take another wife.

Taking another wife does not mean that he will ignore his sick wife......it will be his compulsory duty to take care of her. If his 2nd wife looks after the elder sis ( husband's 1st wife ) , she will get rewards from God Almighty.

Don't u think , it's a very selfish act for a sick wife to prevent her husband from enjoying a normal life ? If she does not allow her husband to re-marry & he commits adultery , then who will be responsible for that sin ? Agains , i m saying that it's not a must for any man to re-marry ......it's an option for those who can't control desires & want to enjoy the matter lawfully.


U may read this article to understand polygamy in Islam.


Polygamy in Islamic Law



Dr. Jamal Badawi examines polygamy in the Muslim, Jewish and Christian traditions.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/polygamy5.htm

Do you mean Khuswant? He's no Sikh

--why he is not a Sikh ? I read in his book that when his son decided to cut hair , he was extremely shocked , his wife decided not to talk to her own son anymore etc , etc. Who decides who is a Sikh or not ?

I didn't know Khushbant Singh had multiple affairs. If he did, he is a dirty old man.

---there are thousands & thousands men who have illegal affairs , many of them have '' love childs'' ......one of the reasons is man made law prohibits polygamy , make divorce very hard. In India , divorce law is very strict.......do u know , how many hindu wives are burnt alive there each year?

But let me ask this now. What if a woman isn't satisfied, does she have a choice?

---of course , if she is not happy in her married life , she can go for divorce & re-marry. Divorce is not encouraged in Islam but allowed if needed.

Pl. don't ask why Muslim women can't have 4 husbands at a time , this has been discussed here already.

Muslim woman repeats the same thing............they cheat. She does not have have a high perception of men in Islam, hence tarring all men adulterers.

---LOL. Be practical , pl. Are u saying that all Sikhs men are excellent & they don't cheat wives ?

My question was: would you feel safer having your child around someone who treat her as his own children than someone who could have lust about her?

---- It's absurd that all men will treat other men's daughters as own daughters who already had puberty & ready for
marriage . So , it's allowed for men to send marriage proposals to a parent .



No one can force a Muslim woman in to marriage but it's open for a man to send proposal to her parent. Thousands & thousands
so-called minor girls are having abortions ..........that's a result of man made laws ----- No to legal marriage , yes to unlimited illegal relationships.



U r living in a dream world ........may be , u don't need a Do's & Dont's guide but many people need.



Islam is for those who wants to have a guide line set by God Almighty. There is a verse in holy Quran that says ( not the exact words ) if choice was given to human being to decide what to do , surely they will make chaos.



Now a days , we believe human laws are better than the commands of God Almighty & that's the problem.

 

[cali dude]

Quick one:

------If Islam tells its followers how to live , what to do in certain conditions , what's wrong with that ?

Some of the ways are immoral and unethical.

---In Islam , it's not compulsory for a husband to re-marry . If he wants to take care of wife & can stay like bachelor , he can do it. But what if he can't ?

Why not be faithful to his first wife in good and bad times?

Man made law is forcing him to divorce his sick wife or go for adultery . Islam is giving here a logical solution. If he fears that he can't act justly , then he won't take another wife.

Man-made laws of what country are forcing someone to divorce? Or is it the immoral man forcing himself?

Taking another wife does not mean that he will ignore his sick wife......it will be his compulsory duty to take care of her. If his 2nd wife looks after the elder sis ( husband's 1st wife ) , she will get rewards from God Almighty.

How about the husband? Does he get rewarded by God or does he get cursed for having multiple sex partners?

Don't u think , it's a very selfish act for a sick wife to prevent her husband from enjoying a normal life ? If she does not allow her husband to re-marry & he commits adultery , then who will be responsible for that sin ? Agains , i m saying that it's not a must for any man to re-marry ......it's an option for those who can't control desires & want to enjoy the matter lawfully.

No, it's selfish for the man to have another woman in his life and commit adultery if he does so.

--why he is not a Sikh ? I read in his book that when his son decided to cut hair , he was extremely shocked , his wife decided not to talk to her own son anymore etc , etc. Who decides who is a Sikh or not ?

A Sikh is someone who seek the ultimate truth. If he commits immoral acts, he is not a Sikh by character. Maybe he looks like a Sikh.

---there are thousands & thousands men who have illegal affairs , many of them have '' love childs'' ......one of the reasons is man made law prohibits polygamy , make divorce very hard. In India , divorce law is very strict.......do u know , how many hindu wives are burnt alive there each year?

The bottom line here is there is no excuse for immoral and unethical behavior, legal or illegal. Wife burning isn't legal in India and there is no excuse for it either.

---LOL. Be practical , pl. Are u saying that all Sikhs men are excellent & they don't cheat wives ?

A cheater should be punished not rewarded by allowing to have many wives.

---- It's absurd that all men will treat other men's daughters as own daughters who already had puberty & ready for
marriage . So , it's allowed for men to send marriage proposals to a parent .

So there you go again. If someone doesn't treat someone young enough to be his daughter like his daughter, you want to reward him by letting him marry her. What kind of justice is this?

No one can force a Muslim woman in to marriage but it's open for a man to send proposal to her parent. Thousands & thousands
so-called minor girls are having abortions ..........that's a result of man made laws ----- No to legal marriage , yes to unlimited illegal relationships.

But how does a nine years old kid know whether the marriage is right for her?

U r living in a dream world ........may be , u don't need a Do's & Dont's guide but many people need.

Let's make this dream come true. Only then we can trust each other with our kids. Now this is a major issue. Based upon what I have learned on this site, I can't even trust a Muslim. When I do have kids, especially I have girls, I will have to make sure that they stay away from Muslims families even if they are the best Muslim someone could ever be. This is because I know that if a Muslim will not be treating a girl young to be his daughter as his daughter as if he got crush on her, he thinks he has right to marry her or at least propose to marry her. Don't you guys feel disgusting if someone of about your age is asking to marry your daughter?

Islam is for those who wants to have a guide line set by God Almighty. There is a verse in holy Quran that says ( not the exact words ) if choice was given to human being to decide what to do , surely they will make chaos.

I for sure not convinced at all that it's from God. God doesn't encourage older adults to marry little children.

Now a days , we believe human laws are better than the commands of God Almighty & that's the problem.

Sorry to tell you this but yes man-made laws, in America for example, are much better than man-made laws what you refer to as God-made laws.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Some of the ways are immoral and unethical.

By who's perception? :rollseyes Does not the One who has created you know what's best for you? :uhwhat

 

[- Qatada -]

Cali, all your points have been refuted continuously throughout the thread. Seems like you've given up trying, so you like using the same 'arguments' over and over again.

Thanks for trying though, it was fun while it lasted.

 

[cali dude]

Shall i repeat my question again? I never asked about being with God by His permission, rather i asked how a person can truely understand what is 'right and wrong' if the person doesn't even have any guidelines from their religion.

Only by eliminating vices. You can search more information on vices.

That doesn't mean anything, where is your proof for that scientifically? What do menses or wet dreams actually represent? It mean's that the girl is old enough to produce offspring [because the blood from the menses means a cycle has just been completed and the egg disposed of], and the boy is producing sperm [thats why the fluid actually came out.]

There is something called morality. Everything we are capable of doing isn't moral. Just because girl is old enough in very rare cases, it doesn't mean she is mature enough to marry. There are many things that count in a marriage.

According to sikhis, who does God pick out of all the people? And why? And what if there are no sikhis in that part of the world, i.e. the North Pole?

It's upon God's will who He picks but we can try to be one. But it's still up to Him to pick us or not.

And in marriage he can't love his wife right? Because lust is a vice.

There is major difference between love and lust. Please check it out.

If someone does bad, are they not responsible infront of God for their own actions?

It's called Karma. Earning good karma will get you closer to God and bad karma will take you away.

How come Punjabis' only? What about the other races, aren't they equally as important? Which also leads to the question - is the guru granth sahib in any other language apart from punjabi? I'd like to check it out plz.

We happened to be the lucky that gurus were born here. If they were bron somewhere else in America for example, someone could also question how come in America only? Guru Granth Sahib is Gurmukhi, not Punjabi. Punjabi in Pakistan is written Arabic alphabets as well.

 

[- Qatada -]

Only by eliminating vices. You can search more information on vices.

5 vices isn't sufficient to distinguish between wrong and right for every act that occurs in the world today. There too wide, like the example of stealing for the sake of living. Islamically that's permissible, whereas in sikhism that isn't.

Which implies that your religion depends more on man made laws rather than it's on laws.

There is something called morality. Everything we are capable of doing isn't moral. Just because girl is old enough in very rare cases, it doesn't mean she is mature enough to marry. There are many things that count in a marriage.

And my previous post which i posted from brother Ansar:

"Again, this is probably the most obvious strawmen visible. I am not saying it is okay for any man to marry any nine year old girl, I am specifically speaking about Aisha rd."

"I'm not speaking about anyone, I am speaking about the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and Aisha - I clarified this in my last post."
​

So the issue here is whether the marriage of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh to A'ishah was harmful and immoral, NOT whether early marriages in other societies could be classified as such. What is confirmed is that A'ishah was mature and post-pubescent, her marriage to the Prophet was acceptable by cultural norms, she did not bear children which is something God knew before He commanded the Prophet to marry her, and A'ishah did not suffer any harm. Much to the contrary, she lived a very outspoken and public life as a religious scholar and leading figure and she always had the best things to say about the Prophet Muhammad saws.



As for the purpose of this marriage, it was purely for sociopolitical reason. The Prophet’s main concern was the future of Islam. He was interested in strengthening the Muslims by all bonds. This also explains the reason why he married the daughter of `Umar, his Second Successor. It was by his marriage to Juwayriyyah that he gained the support for Islam of the whole clan of Bani Al-Mustaliq and their allied tribes. It was through his marriage to Safiyyah that he neutralized a great section of the hostile Jews of Arabia. By accepting Mariya, the Copt from Egypt, as his wife, he formed a political alliance with a king of great magnitude. So his marriage to `Aisha could never be of anything save cementing his relation with Abu Bakr, `Aisha’s father. (SOURCE)



The truth of this matter is that just because an action is done by the Prophet pbuh does not make it a part of the religion. If the Prophet ordered others to do it, then it would acquire the status of wâjib, or obligatory. If he did not order us to do it but he recommended it or promised a reward for it, then it would acquire the religious ruling of mustahab or recommended.

But other actions like riding a camel or wearing a turban or various cultural practices do not have religious significance. It is only what the prophet commands or recommends. But in this case, we see neither!! In fact, not only is there no recommendation at all in Islam to marry at such an age, but it is forbidden if there is any risk of danger associated with the marriage.

http://www.islamicboard.com/587743-post147.html (The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH))
​

It's upon God's will who He picks but we can try to be one. But it's still up to Him to pick us or not.

...in islaam, whoever is sincere - Allaah will guide them to the truth.

There is major difference between love and lust. Please check it out.

Well love to one's wife can lead to lust.

It's called Karma. Earning good karma will get you closer to God and bad karma will take you away.

But no-ones responsible or punished for their actions right? Or let's use the example i used earlier on in the thread; how does a rat become good and gain good karma?

We happened to be the lucky that gurus were born here. If they were bron somewhere else in America for example, someone could also question how come in America only? Guru Granth Sahib is Gurmukhi, not Punjabi. Punjabi in Pakistan is written Arabic alphabets as well.

Yeah but why not all over the world? There were ten gurus' werent they? And if it's really a worldwide thing, then how come we still don't have a translation (i.e. in english) to the scripture today?



You still havn't answered my questions either:



The Questions are:

1) What is a 'child' who has menses/wet dreams?

2) How does sikhism differentiate between someone who's old enough to get married or if someones your child. Please quote evidence from your religious sources.

3) How does a person reach the next level and be with God if the guru before him never had those laws? And who gives the guidelines to the vices, what is permitted or not?


4) Can anyone simply decide what a vice is? For example, right at the beginning of the thread we hear cali dude saying that marriage isn't permitted because lust isn't permitted either - as its a vice. Now if lust isn't permitted, then does the couple have intimate relations for no other purpose except for kids? And if the guy starts liking his wife, that's sinful right? Because lust isn't permitted. So does that mean he's getting less karma points for desiring his own wife?

5) How will the people unite with God according to the sikhi beliefs, because the flame idea doesn't make sense. Either the smaller flame joins in with the bigger flame and becomes that bigger flame, and if that is the case - then isn't that saying God isn't complete, i.e. Perfect?
​

 

[cali dude]

5 vices isn't sufficient to distinguish between wrong and right for every act that occurs in the world today. There too wide, like the example of stealing for the sake of living. Islamically that's permissible, whereas in sikhism that isn't.

At the human level, it might be permissible but not at the spiritual level.

Which implies that your religion depends more on man made laws rather than it's on laws.

When it comes to social issues, then yes it's laws of the country we live in that we follow but when it comes spirituality, we have no choice but follow God's law.

And my previous post which i posted from brother Ansar:

We can't expect from a prophet to do something for socio-political purpose what would be wrong otherwise.

...in islaam, whoever is sincere - Allaah will guide them to the truth.

We are already at that level, i.e. we are already sincere by trying to be good Sikh. But it's still up to God to accept us and help us with gettin gunited with Him.

Well love to one's wife can lead to lust.

Apparently, there is a way to love without lust. But those who have lust can not reach that stage.

But no-ones responsible or punished for their actions right? Or let's use the example i used earlier on in the thread; how does a rat become good and gain good karma?

I am not sure if this is gonna waste of time but I will try. Karma is done in many ways, through seeing, hearing, and actions. Anything we do, anything we see and anything we hear changes affects our personality. What improves our personality is good karma and what make it worse is bad karma. Animals are capable of doing karma as well. Animals suffer are alot more useful than human in their own ways. What we die, we are re-incarnated based upon our thoughts at the time. Our personality changes based upon our karmas and our thoughts at the time of death are dependent on our personality.

Yeah but why not all over the world? There were ten gurus' werent they? And if it's really a worldwide thing, then how come we still don't have a translation (i.e. in english) to the scripture today?

When we say Universal because Sikhi isn't confined to any culture, society or even religion.

You still havn't answered my questions either:

We have answered all of these question. It's really up to you to understand where we are coming from and that's one of the problems we have that we are not on the same page as far as spirituality and religion goes.

 

[- Qatada -]

At the human level, it might be permissible but not at the spiritual level.

When it comes to social issues, then yes it's laws of the country we live in that we follow but when it comes spirituality, we have no choice but follow God's law.

Soul and body work together, so our physical actions affect our soul. Hence, what is permitted and disliked in society should be influenced by God, not by the norms of the people.

We can't expect from a prophet to do something for socio-political purpose what would be wrong otherwise.

Who said it was wrong otherwise? Is it the morals of today? Those whose morals you don't totally agree with in every sense? Or is it the morals you learnt from your religion? And if so - source please.

We are already at that level, i.e. we are already sincere by trying to be good Sikh. But it's still up to God to accept us and help us with gettin gunited with Him.

Sincerety involves wanting to accept the truth because it's clear. It makes sense and there aren't any flaws. 'Uniting' with God is saying things about God which make no sense and which doesn't Befit Him, that's one of the reasons why this issue is avoided so much - yet its the main aim of sikhis. Maybe if it was so simple to understand - then it would be easier for anyone to accept.

Apparently, there is a way to love without lust. But those who have lust can not reach that stage.

Lust is to have a sexual desire according to that dictionary.com site right? Now don't tell me that a couple who are married don't have that desire for each other. If they don't, then what's the purpose of marriage?

I am not sure if this is gonna waste of time but I will try. Karma is done in many ways, through seeing, hearing, and actions. Anything we do, anything we see and anything we hear changes affects our personality. What improves our personality is good karma and what make it worse is bad karma. Animals are capable of doing karma as well. Animals suffer are alot more useful than human in their own ways. What we die, we are re-incarnated based upon our thoughts at the time. Our personality changes based upon our karmas and our thoughts at the time of death are dependent on our personality.

What does the rat do to become good though? What does he need to think about?

When we say Universal because Sikhi isn't confined to any culture, society or even religion.

But why do you guys believe the guru granth sahib is a divine book if everyone simply depends on karma?

We have answered all of these question. It's really up to you to understand where we are coming from and that's one of the problems we have that we are not on the same page as far as spirituality and religion goes.

You havn't, if you had the answers to the questions - you would answer them according to the order i gave them. It's that simple.


By the way, you see how useless this debate is? The only reason you keep coming back is because you feel others are attacking your faith, maybe they do it because you do also? And that's one of the main reasons i keep coming back.

If you want we can simply end the debate and to Allaah is our return and He will judge us on what we differ.



Regards.

 

[cali dude]

Soul and body work together, so our physical actions affect our soul. Hence, what is permitted and disliked in society should be influenced by God, not by the norms of the people.

unless what's so-called "influenced by God" does not meet the moral standards...

Who said it was wrong otherwise? Is it the morals of today? Those whose morals you don't totally agree with in every sense? Or is it the morals you learnt from your religion? And if so - source please.

There you go again. Marrying a nine years old is wrong as she doesn't even understand what marriage is supposed to be all about, even if you ask her permission. It's like convincing a child jump down from a hill...

Sincerety involves wanting to accept the truth because it's clear. It makes sense and there aren't any flaws. 'Uniting' with God is saying things about God which make no sense and which doesn't Befit Him, that's one of the reasons why this issue is avoided so much - yet its the main aim of sikhis. Maybe if it was so simple to understand - then it would be easier for anyone to accept.

Things may not make sense to you because of difference your own understanding but it doesn't mean they don't make sense to us.

Lust is to have a sexual desire according to that dictionary.com site right? Now don't tell me that a couple who are married don't have that desire for each other. If they don't, then what's the purpose of marriage?

We have talked about this and you have read the article.

What does the rat do to become good though? What does he need to think about?

For a rat, as I understand, there are natural way to do karma, like seeing something good that changes his inside.

But why do you guys believe the guru granth sahib is a divine book if everyone simply depends on karma?

This is a book of those people who had experienced spirituality and who had direct connection with God. So we try following their footsteps and maybe we will be blessed.

 

[- Qatada -]

unless what's so-called "influenced by God" does not meet the moral standards...

Who defines morals? See the cycle?

There you go again. Marrying a nine years old is wrong as she doesn't even understand what marriage is supposed to be all about, even if you ask her permission. It's like convincing a child jump down from a hill...

Who said she doesn't understand? A young woman who is physically and mentally mature enough to get married can get married, and who said Aa'isha wasn't that way?

Things may not make sense to you because of difference your own understanding but it doesn't mean they don't make sense to us.

Well God's message is supposed to be simple enough to understand, that's one of the main reasons you attack the personal life of the Messenger of God, Muhammad (peace be upon him) - because the message he recieved is so simple that even a child can understand it. To worship God Alone, without no associates [whether these are idols, humans, philosophies etc], and those who submit and do good to please Him are rewarded by God and those who reject the clear signs will be punished because they rejected God's message and took it in jest.

We have talked about this and you have read the article.

So a husband and wife can't have sexual relations for pleasure?

For a rat, as I understand, there are natural way to do karma, like seeing something good that changes his inside.

Seeing what? And in what way does it change him? Does he start saying that he wont steal cheese from then on wards?

This is a book of those people who had experienced spirituality and who had direct connection with God. So we try following their footsteps and maybe we will be blessed.

Well the Qur'an is the same, like we know of the journey of the Night of Descent [Israa' wal Mi'raaj] which is a clear example when the Messenger of Allaah spoke directly to Allaah above the heavens.


Does the guru granth sahib actually have any miracles? And if so - could you give some please. Or is it just person accounts of the gurus'?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Does the Guru Granth Sahib actually have any miracles? And if so - could you give some please. Or is it just person accounts of the gurus'?

Dude do you know the meaning of ''Spritual Guidance''? The Guru Granth Sahib is not a book of fables and fictitious miracles it's the Divine Revelation of God. - But if you want a list of miracles performed by the Guru's that can be presented.

BTW - I notice you don't use capital letters when you type Guru or Guru Granth Sahib, but you manage perfectly well to capitalise the Quran. Hope it's not to cause offence Bro.