Discussion with HinduIconoclast

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers, assalam aleykoum my sister,

I totally agree for what you said, we live in very dangerous time, we have to look after the truth step by step.

We have to exchange evry one can post his point of view, that is the freedom speech ( I had some of my post deleted )

Let me tell you the position of the Hadiths (Sunna). You need to know that there is a group of people who called themselves ( Quranic people ) and the site that you posted was written by them. They don’t believe in anything in Hadeeths; they just take what is in the Holy Quran, and say that the Hadiths are wrong! It’s actually like an artifice to make wrong thoughts for true Muslims..

Can you tell me about the Quranic, if they pray 5 times a day like you or not ? if they follow only the Quran do you think they are astray or not ?

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Sourate 3


103. And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.


There were many meetings and symposia among ( Shaikhs ) to warn from this group and make evidences that we have to obey what is in Hadiths as well..

Allah SWT never said the Hadiths are protected, only the Quran is protected is it true or not ?


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Sourate 15

9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).



If this group really takes what is in the holy Quran, they’ll read what Allah said in the Holy Quran:

[4:80] Whoever obeys the messenger is obeying GOD. As for those who turn away, we did not send you as their guardian.


[59:7] take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.


I agree we have to follow our prophete Mohamed SWS, but is not with us nowdays, we have two books :

The Quran = is protected, can bring a person from the darkness to light, when you read some verse you have to bow low

The Hadiths : wich can not bring a person from darkness to light, can not guide like the Quran do , we do not bow low like the Quran.

Some people not you my sister compare the Quran to Hadiths, or they put it equal or they think is protected, we are always talking about Hadiths and we forget the Quran, as the prophete Mohamed SWS said.


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Sourate 25


30. "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."


B]The Hadiths are one of the following:[/B]
1) assuring of what is in the Holy Quran..
Like the Quran talked about drinking toddy, and then the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) emphasized this issue (exactly the same as the Holy Quran)..

2) explaining what is in the Holy Quran..
The Hadiths explains lots & lots, and we can’t take just the Holy Quran. I don’t know how this group of people can pray without the Hadiths! Because in the holy Quran there is just the command of praying, but then the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) explained exactly how to pray & what are the actions & what shall we say. Or for example, about cleanness, marriage, the specific amounts of money in (Zakaa), and others are in Quran without details and the Prophet (pbuh) explained the details..


My sister and all of you can you tell me how did you learn to pray ?

You mean people they waited about 200 years for BUKHARI to pray when he compilated Hadiths ???

Do you know the prayers were gave to our Prophete Mohamed SWS from Allah SWT :

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Sourate 53

10. So did ((Allah)) convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.


Do you think when you were young you read the Hadiths to learn to pray, I think on that time you did not read ? even by reading without pictures its hard to learn to pray no ???

I have not seen any pictures in Hadiths ? I beleive that we have to pray 5 times a day not worry.

Can you bring me the five Hadiths with the way to pray ? I want to see them, because I have not read them I mean the way we have to pray for :

1) Fajr
2) Dohor
3) Asr
4) Magrib
5) Isha


3) informing about issues that are not in the Holy Quran..
Such as that the killer can’t take from legacy and many many other things including our issue, circumcision..

& to insure that we have to take these from the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), let me ask you, is it logical that Allah sends a messenger who says wrong things? :astagfiru

The prophete Mohamed SWS follow only the revelation nothing else, I agree with you he can not be in contradiction with the Hadiths.

But I have found many hadiths in contradiction with Hadits how its possible ? What I understand those Haditsh in contradiction can not be told by our prophete Mohamed SWS .


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Sourate 69

43. (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.

44. And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,

45. We should certainly seize him by his right hand,

46. And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart:

47. Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).

Allah says:
[53:2] Your friend (Muhammad) was not astray, nor was he deceived.
[53:3] Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire.
[53:4] It was divine inspiration.
[53:5] Dictated by the Most Powerful.

This insures that we have to take all what in the Hadiths like what is in Quran. The Quran is Allah’s speech.. Hadeeths are Mohammad’s speech which is inspiration from Allah, so both Quran & Hadeeths are like from the same source..

Sorry my sisters I will not take all the Hadiths, how many centuries past after the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS, how can I be sure thet Hadiths are not lies upon our prophete mohamed SWS, how I can be sure the authentic message reach us after 14 centuries, I do not want to go to hell, I ask allah SWT to protect us, Amine.

Allah SWT give me a brain, I have to use it, it not because its an authentic Hadiths that I have to swich off my brain and follow it like a SHEEP.

Do you know the Hadiths of our prophete MOhamed SWS, which say if somebody say even a lie about me and spread it to people by saying it was told by the Prophete SWS ??? that person has to prepare a place in hell, Allah INJINA insh'allah, Ameen.


I hope my post will not be deleted again.

Ask allah SWT to forgive us and guide us to the TRUTH.

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers in islam and humanity.


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

 

[Charzhino]

Ahh, I see. My mistake.

What you have to know first of all about the Puranas is that they are not very authentic. If you actually go and read some of the Puranas you will see what I'm talking about. The Puranas were created much later than the Vedas were (in the era of the predominance of the Puranic deities in the Hindu pantheon which is the current time still). So, most Hindus who are somewhat knowledgeable about their scriptures do not take the Puranas as being authentic scriptures.

As for the purported Vedic prophecies, I have looked through those (because I have also heard about them before) and to me they are not very definite in describing Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) much at all.

Also, the Vedas never mention any place outside ancient India (from Afghanistan in the east to Southeast Asia in the east and the Himalayas in the north to Sri Lanka in the south) - boundaries which Arabia falls outside of. Therefore, I don't think that any of the Vedic prophecies that are purported to be about Propeht Muhammad (pbuh) are actually about him.

Also, to those Muslims who do believe that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was prophecied in the Vedas (I'm not talking baout the Puranas now because they are inauthentic), I have a question to ask: How come no one has come forward with prophecies in the Vedas that talk about Adam, Noah, Abraham, or Moses (may peace be upon them all)? - If you do have such prophecies, I would like to read them.

Oh, thanks for the response. The Jesus prophecy I read was in the Bhavisyha Purana. As for Mohammed, I think it is mentioned that he will arise from the land of Arabia. The prophecies relating to Guru Nanak and Buddha are in one of the 4 Vedas, can't remember which one.
Also, I have also read that characters such as Abraham and Moses are foretold in the Vedas, with Abrahaam as brahma and his wife sarswati (sarah) and Manu as Moses.

 

[Proud of Islam]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers, assalam aleykoum my sister,

I totally agree for what you said, we live in very dangerous time, we have to look after the truth step by step.

Wa Alikom Al salam, brother.. Okey let's go step by step :sunny:

Can you tell me about the Quranic, if they pray 5 times a day like you or not ? if they follow only the Quran do you think they are astray or not ?

I don’t know a lot about them, because I just read some things about them & read the replies for their thoughts. They have a lot of changes in important basics of Islam like the prayers! because they don’t read any Hadith & don’t believe them.. I saw one of them is calling in his website all the scholars from all countries to listen to him! Are all Muslims wrong and his anomalous opinions are right? Will we listen to him or to the prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him)? This guy knows that he is talking about dangerous bases in Islam, so he created a section in his forum for (tirades) !! He said that he knows that all of the Ummah will strongly disagree with him, so he created this section for them!
Some of these Quranic reject all the Hadiths, and some of them reject some Hadiths in order to reject the commands that are not in the Holy Quran, but in these Hadiths.

I think (& I hope) that you are not from these; I think the only thing that wonders you is that the Hadiths are not protected.. I am sure brother that you know the position of the prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) whose speech is inspiration from Allah swt & you are not like some of Quranic who reached dangerous levels when talking about Mohammad (peace be upon him)!

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Sourate 3
103. And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.

This verse is very great, as all the Holy Quran is, I am not with making divides among Muslims, I strongly disagree with that..
But if a group of people are changing many important basics in Islam (like the prayers & other things) because they don’t believe the Hadiths, we should protect Islam, shouldn’t we?

Do you know that the prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) told Muslims that this group will appear?

Ahmad, Abu Dawood and al-Haakim reported with a saheeh isnaad from al-Miqdaam that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

"Soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch, narrating a hadeeth from me, and he will say, Between us and you is the Book of Allaah: what it says is halaal, we take as halaal, and what it says is haraam, we take as haraam.' But listen! Whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids." (Al-Fath al-Kabeer, 3/438. Al-Tirmidhi reported it with different wording, and said that it is hasan saheeh. Sunan al-Tirmidhi bi Sharh Ibn al-?Arabi, al-Saawi edn., 10/132)

May Allah swt keeps us away from this group, ameen ..

Allah SWT never said the Hadiths are protected, only the Quran is protected is it true or not ?
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Sourate 15
9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

... how many centuries past after the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS, how can I be sure thet Hadiths are not lies upon our prophete mohamed SWS, how I can be sure the authentic message reach us after 14 centuries, I do not want to go to hell, I ask allah SWT to protect us, Amine.

Yes, you are right, Hadiths are not protected.. But think of the meaning of protecting the Holy Quran. It is protected that there is no single word that was changed, there is no single change in the verses or chapters order, there is no any change.. Allah Akbar! It’s a promise from Allah swt as you posted..
However, for Hadiths they are not protected because not all the Prophet’s speech were written as the Holy Quran is & in Hadiths there might be change in synonymous words; but this small wording change is not in the Holy Quran at all.
However, shall this make us don’t believe in Hadiths, at all? Why Hadiths can’t reach us correctly? Why we believe in many scientific and historical things that reached us, & don’t believe in Hadiths? What is the history of the countries & civilizations? It had been for centuries ago, but it reached us, right?
Let me tell you a small example; we have something called (Sanad of memorizing the Holy Quran). It is given for anyone who memorize all the Quran without any mistake. It is a document or a certification proving that the person has memorized the Quran, and his teacher was: his father (for example), & his father memorized the Quran from: (the name of his teacher), this teacher memorized the Quran from…………., This memorized the Quran from the Sahabi: (his name), this memorized the Quran from the prophet Mohammad (pbuh), and the prophet pbuh listened it from Jebreel (peace be upon him) & finally Jebreel (pbuh) from Allah swt..
So, whenever a person memorizes the Quran, his teacher copy the document for him & add his name to the series..
Do you believe this? :sunny:
Most of the scholars have it; & it’s till nowadays, I saw it with my grandfather & my uncle.. & even some people who are not Arabic have it..
This is just a document to certify memorizing, is it more important than Hadiths? Hadiths also reached us by a series of reporters first, and later Hadiths were written & classified in books, and these books reached us..
This is normal as what happened for the medical or historical books for example!

The reporters & scholars who narrated Hadiths & wrote and classified them in books paid considerable efforts to check the Hadiths, check the reliability & memory of their reporters, check whether the series is complete to the prophet (pbuh) without any interruption in the chain or not, check the language of the text whether its perfect as the speech of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh), check the number of people who narrated each Hadith, and then depending on these conditions (and also other conditions) they classified them to groups, and one of them is the (Sahih) which is defiantly right (& some of the Sahih books are Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim). One of the conditions for example for a Hadith to be Sahih is that the chain of reporters (which might be several pages); all of these reporters should be reliable & have good memory; if they just doubt in one of them; the Hadith is not Sahih. There are other groups in the classification which I can’t state now, because every one has specific conditions to be Sahih or another type.

Great scholars did this classification in books after considerable efforts. It is a science like any other type of sciences, & you can search about it. People spend years to know all the facts of the Hadiths’ Science. After the death of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh), Muslims paid considerable efforts in different stages; one of them was called (the Golden Age of Hadiths) when the Hadiths are classified and written in books. Our age now is when everything is available for us in very reliable books; we can just study the science of that classification, or study the Hadiths themselves. If you read the biography of Bukhari for example, you’ll be amazed by his considerable efforts. Just quick examples, he spent 16 years writing his book, he traveled to lots & lots of countries to check the Hadiths from the reporters themselves, he took Hadiths from 1080 people who all people say that they are faithful in their speech & deeds, and for example, when he traveled to a man to take a Hadith from him, he noticed that he is not merciful with his camel, so he return back without taking the Hadith because as his saw, this person is not reliable! Or if someone rarely make jokes; Hadiths from him are rejected! because again this person considered to be unreliable. Bukhari wake up many times during the night to complete his work. One of his students said: I haven’t ever see a person like Al Bukhari; it’s like he was created for Hadiths science only! But also there were lots of other scholars of Hadiths and reporters and one of them (I don’t remember his name) sometimes put cake in water & drink it because he doesn’t have time to eat! They spend all their lives for the Hadiths because they know the importance of them as Allah swt said in many verses as I posted previously. They knew that the Quran is protected by Allah & all people have one right book, so they care about Hadiths to show what is right and what is not. They wanted to keep Hadiths & write them in books in order to reach the coming ages. Then, can we simply say that we don’t believe Hadiths?!

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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

 

[Proud of Islam]

agree we have to follow our prophete Mohamed SWS, but is not with us nowdays,

If you say that it’s not for nowadays; the Holy Quran is defiantly for every place at any time; right? It’s from Allah swt, & all people have to obey the commands included on it, not just people who were with the prophet (pbuh), right?
Okey, Allah swt in the Holy Quran says the following:

[16:44] And we sent down to you this message, to explain clearly for the people everything that is sent down to them

[4:65] But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission.

[24:63] Do not treat the messenger's requests as you treat each others' requests. GOD is fully aware of those among you who sneak away using flimsy excuses. Let them beware - those who disobey his orders - for a disaster may strike them, or a severe retribution.

[4:69] Those who obey GOD and the messenger belong with those blessed by GOD - the prophets, the saints, the martyrs, and the righteous. These are the best company.

[24:54] Say, "Obey GOD, and obey the messenger." If they refuse, then he is responsible for his obligations, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you obey him, you will be guided. The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver (the message).

[4:80] Whoever obeys the messenger is obeying GOD. As for those who turn away, we did not send you as their guardian.

[59:7] take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.

As any other commands, these are for all Muslims, not only who were with the prophet (pbuh); so we have to obey the messenger (pbuh) even nowadays..

we have two books :

The Quran = is protected, can bring a person from the darkness to light, when you read some verse you have to bow low

The Hadiths : wich can not bring a person from darkness to light, can not guide like the Quran do , we do not bow low like the Quran.

Some people not you my sister compare the Quran to Hadiths, or they put it equal or they think is protected,

They are not equal, we don’t bow low when reading Hadiths as you said, but sure they guide since Hadiths are explanations for what is in the Holy Quran.. And they are the speech of the messenger of Allah swt..
Hadiths guide; Allah says:

[42:52] Surely, you guide in a straight path.

[23:73] Most assuredly, you are inviting them to a straight path.

[7:158] Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messenger, the gentile prophet, who believes in GOD and His words. Follow him, that you may be guided.

[24:54] If you obey him, you will be guided.

You know, there are many verses telling us to obey the prophet Mohammad (pbuh); The commands in the Holy Quran are for all people in all centuries.. Allah swt knows everything that we will think about and so tell us the truth in the Holy Quran..

we are always talking about Hadiths and we forget the Quran, as the prophete Mohamed SWS said.
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Sourate 25
30. "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."

No we shouldn’t be like this at all! Do you understand that if we take Hadiths it means that we forget the Quran? No, at all. We know the very high position of the Holy Quran since it’s the speech of or God, Allah, but when we take Hadiths we are obeying commands in the Holy Quran!
All the scholars of Hadiths memorized first the Holy Quran & studied it very very well, because one of the conditions for Hadiths is that there shouldn’t be any contradiction at all in Hadiths when comparing to the Holy Quran. If so, then the Hadith is rejected because it’s surely a lie & the prophet pbuh didn’t say it..


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

 

[Proud of Islam]

My sister and all of you can you tell me how did you learn to pray ?

You mean people they waited about 200 years for BUKHARI to pray when he compilated Hadiths ???

Do you know the prayers were gave to our Prophete Mohamed SWS from Allah SWT :
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Sourate 53
10. So did ((Allah)) convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.


Do you think when you were young you read the Hadiths to learn to pray, I think on that time you did not read ? even by reading without pictures its hard to learn to pray no ???

I have not seen any pictures in Hadiths ? I beleive that we have to pray 5 times a day not worry.

Can you bring me the five Hadiths with the way to pray ? I want to see them, because I have not read them I mean the way we have to pray for :

1) Fajr
2) Dohor
3) Asr
4) Magrib
5) Isha

I learned how to pray from my parents & at school; they taught me.. And then when I grew up, I read about it deeply in the Sunna books.. Everyone was taught the prayers from another person, but where was the original source? He is Allah swt, to Jebreel pbuh to Mohammad pbuh to his companions (Sahaba), to their children, to us.. The prayers didn’t stop at any century since it was commanded by Allah swt..
People didn’t wait for Bukhari to write the Hadiths as you asked; but people after him, like us, found the detailed Hadiths in his book and other books as well, especially those whose families are not Muslims; how can they learn how to pray if they don’t read the Hadiths or the explanation of that Hadiths from Muslim teachers?
The pictures that you talked about & which exist nowadays to ease the praying learning, are nothing more than visualizing what the prophet Mohammad pbuh said in the Hadiths..

For your request for Hadiths about prayers, as you know, Sunna is whatever the prophet Mohammad pbuh said or did.. So the Hadiths are the speech which is one part of Sunna. The other part is the deeds of the prophet Mohammad pbuh..
Some teachings reached us by speech of the prophet’s companions (Sahaba) like what he did when he was with them, or reached us by the speech of the prophet’s wives in the topics of marriage & what he often does at home..

The details of the prayers are in Sunna in both forms; speech (Hadiths) & deeds..

In Bukhari, the prophet Mohammad pbuh says: “pray as you see me praying”..

He taught Muslims the actions practically by seeing him; but also he said some Hadiths theoretically to explain the way.. And then, Muslims have the Hadith of him & also the speech of his companions (Sahaba) who explained his actions when they saw him..

If you search in the books that talk about the Salah, you’ll find a lot of authenticated Hadiths talking about every detail of the prayers..

Just some examples:

** About the number of prayers:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 10, Number 506:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "If there was a river at the door of anyone of you and he took a bath in it five times a day would you notice any dirt on him?" They said, "Not a trace of dirt would be left." The Prophet added, "That is the example of the five prayers with which Allah blots out (annuls) evil deeds."

** Number of rak'ahs for each prayer:

Sunan Abu-Dawud:
The prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) saw a man offering after the morning prayer two rak'ahs. The prophet said: morning prayer is two rak'ahs.

(& there are Hadiths about the other prayers as well)

** Actions and sayings of prayers:

- Sahih Muslim:
Abu Hurayrah (May Allah be pleased with him) said, that the Prophet(Peace be upon him) said;
“Whoever performs any prayer in which he did not read Umm Al-Qur’an (Al-
Fatihah), then his prayer is incomplete.” He said it thrice.

- Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 699:
Narrated Anas bin Malik Al-Ansari:
Allah's Apostle rode a horse and fell down and the right side of his body was injured. On that day he prayed one of the prayers sitting and we also prayed behind him sitting. When the Prophet finished the prayer with Taslim, he said, "The Imam is to be followed and if he prays standing then pray standing, and bow when he bows, and raise your heads when he raises his head; prostrate when he prostrates; and if he says "Sami'a-l-lahu Liman hamida", you should say, "Rabbana wa-laka-l hamd.:

- Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 724:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle entered the mosque and a person followed him. The man prayed and went to the Prophet and greeted him. The Prophet returned the greeting and said to him, "Go back and pray, for you have not prayed." The man went back prayed in the same way as before, returned and greeted the Prophet who said, "Go back and pray, for you have not prayed." This happened thrice. The man said, "By Him Who sent you with the Truth, I cannot offer the prayer in a better way than this. Please, teach me how to pray." The Prophet said, "When you stand for Prayer say Takbir and then recite from the Holy Qur'an (of what you know by heart) and then bow till you feel at ease. Then raise your head and stand up straight, then prostrate till you feel at ease during your prostration, then sit with calmness till you feel at ease (do not hurry) and do the same in all your prayers

- Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 785:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "Be straight in the prostrations and none of you should put his forearms on the ground (in the prostration) like a dog."

- Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 3, Number 0991:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to give the salutation to his left and right sides until the whiteness of his cheek was seen, (saying: "Assalamo Alikom Wa rahmatollah, Assalamo Alikom Wa rahmatollah: Peace be upon you, and mercy of Allah" twice.


** Time of prayers:

- Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 2, Number 0393:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Gabriel (peace_be_upon_him) led me in prayer at the House (i.e. the Ka'bah). He prayed the noon prayer with me when the sun had passed the meridian to the extent of the thong of a sandal; he prayed the afternoon prayer with me when the shadow of everything was as long as itself; he prayed the sunset prayer with me when one who is fasting breaks the fast; he prayed the night prayer with me when the twilight had ended; and he prayed the dawn prayer with me when food and drink become forbidden to one who is keeping the fast.
On the following day he prayed the noon prayer with me when his shadow was as long as himself; he prayed the afternoon prayer with me when his shadow was twice as long as himself; he prayed the sunset prayer at the time when one who is fasting breaks the fast; he prayed the night prayer with me when about the third of the night had passed; and he prayed the dawn prayer with me when there was a fair amount of light.
Then turning to me he said: Muhammad, this is the time observed by the prophets before you, and the time is anywhere between two times.

Similar case:

- Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1278:
Sulaiman b. Buraida narrated it on the authority of his father that a person asked the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) about the time of prayer. Upon this he said: Pray with us these two, meaning two days. When the sun passed the meridian. he gave command to Bilal who uttered the call to prayer. then lie commanded him and pronounced Iqama for noon prayer (Then at the tine of the afternoon prayer) he again commanded and Iqama for the afternoon prayer was pronounced when the sun was high, white and clear. He then commanded and Iqama for the evening prayer was pronounced, when the sun had set. He then commanded him and the Iqama for the night prayer was pronounced When the twilight had disappeared. He then commanded him and the Iqama for the morning prayer was pronounced, when the dawn had appeared. When it was the next day, he commanded him to delay the noon prayer till the extreme heat had passed and he did so, and he allowed it to be delayed till the extreme heat had passed. He observed the afternoon prayer when the sun was high, delaying it beyond the time he had previously observed it. He observed the evening prayer before the twilight had vanished; he observed the night prayer when a third of the night had passed; and he observed the dawn prayer when there was clear daylight. He (the Holy Prophet) then said: Where is the man who inquired about the time of prayer? He (the inquirer) said: Messenger of Allah I here I am. He (the Holy Prophet) said: The time for your prayer is within the limits of what you have seen.


And there are many other Hadiths about every detail in the Salah..
Some of us just learn all the prayers without knowing these Hadiths & that’s fine if we learned them correctly.. And if you want the Hadiths of the details, just start searching in the books of Sunna :sunny:

This is about the prayers. Even for the amounts of Zakaa (alms), the actions in Haj (Pilgrimage), and many other things, we can’t find the details in the Holy Quran, we have to check the Hadiths about them.. How will we be true Muslims who do all of these, if we don’t believe Hadiths?

=>>> continue in the next post ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

 

[HinduIconoclast]

Also, I have also read that characters such as Abraham and Moses are foretold in the Vedas, with Abrahaam as brahma and his wife sarswati (sarah) and Manu as Moses.

I have heard about such things also. What you have to keep in mind though is that Hindus try to use this to try to prove that Islam came from Hinduism and Muslims also use this to try to prove that Hinduism forecasted Islam as the final revelation and that Hindus should follow Islam. Since I have seen this from both sides, I don't accept either - I simply think that the similarity between Brahma and Abraham/Saraswati and Sara are coincidence or can be explained away by some other means.

 

[Proud of Islam]

The prophete Mohamed SWS follow only the revelation nothing else, I agree with you he can not be in contradiction with the Hadiths.

But I have found many hadiths in contradiction with Hadits how its possible ? What I understand those Haditsh in contradiction can not be told by our prophete Mohamed SWS .

If we find contradictive Hadiths, we have to see which one is stronger in the classifications book which starts from Sahih ( right & authentic) till Mawdoo’ (wrong & they are lies)..

Sorry my sisters I will not take all the Hadiths,

You are right; I shouldn't say all the Hadiths, I should say all the authenticated Hadiths.. Sorry ^^

Allah SWT give me a brain, I have to use it, it not because its an authentic Hadiths that I have to swich off my brain and follow it like a SHEEP.

Oh brother, don’t switch off your brain! But who are us comparing to the scholars who spent all their lives in the science of Hadiths? Who are us comparing with people who traveled in the past to meet people who were with the Prophet (pbuh) in order to write Hadiths? Not me or you who can say that a Hadith is right or wrong.. As I told you the classifications are ready & available; all the Ummah takes their science which is in the previous books.. Our very small knowledge doesn’t make us illegible to differentiate between Hadiths; that’s why we have to take what they say that it’s authenticated. And also our small knowledge about the Hadiths’ Science & the biographies of the reporters doesn’t allow us to say that we don’t believe any Hadith!

Do you know the Hadiths of our prophete MOhamed SWS, which say if somebody say even a lie about me and spread it to people by saying it was told by the Prophete SWS ??? that person has to prepare a place in hell, Allah INJINA insh'allah, Ameen.

Yes, so you believe some Hadiths :sunny:
Because of this Hadith; the scholars paid considerable efforts as I said to differentiate between the right Hadiths & the lies. There are some scholars of History who are not Muslims, said that there is no nation cared about something as the care of Muslims about the Hadiths and their reporters..


=>>> continue in the next post ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

 

[Proud of Islam]

I hope my post will not be deleted again.

Ask allah SWT to forgive us and guide us to the TRUTH.

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers in islam and humanity.

I am with you; I disagree with deleting posts. You know, our Islam is the truth, so if there is anything wrong written, the truth of our Islam has the reply to evidence what is right..

Hope my post wasn’t inconvenient & hope that we all take the Islam as what we say & believe in the (Shahada). All Muslims believe in Allah (swt) & His prophet (pbuh); so we have to believe in their speech..

It was reported to have been said during Muhammad's Farewell Sermon atop Mount Arafat after his Last Pilgrimage. The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

“I have left among you two matters by holding fast to which, you shall never be misguided: the Book of Allah and my Sunna”
(sited in Tabaqat al-Muhaditheen fi Asbahan by Abu al-Shaykh, al-Tamhid by Ibn Abd al-Barr, al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain by Hakim al-Nishaburi & al-Sunan al-Kubra by Imam al-Bayhaqi)

Allah says:
[4:115] As for him who opposes the messenger, after the guidance has been pointed out to him, and follows other than the believers' way, we will direct him in the direction he has chosen, and commit him to Hell; what a miserable destiny!


May Allah save us from the Hell, and may Allah make me, you brother & all of us in the Paradise (Jannah).. Ameen..

Wassalamo Alikom Wa rahmatollah..

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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

 

[qarasz]

Hindus bury their dead for two main practical reasons.
1. because land where people are buried cannot be reused where as the cremated ashes of a body can be spread anywhere (depending on the wishes of the deceased)
2. in an area where wood was cut down to build a funeral pyre the area would become deforested for further use

A religious reason would be that of the agnihotra. The agnihotra was a Vedic fire ritual/sacrifice (yajna) that was the only ritual that was supposed to be performed by the man of the house twice a day. This great importance given to fire probably led to or lent credit to the practice of cremation in Hindu India.

reply for above

I WOULD LIKE TO REPLY FOR THE ABOVE.

1] BURNING HUMAN BODY RESULT IN RELEASING OF TOXIC GAS......AGAINST NATURE.
2] CUTTING OF TREES AGAIN RESULT IN AFFORESTATION

THIS IS MY QUESTION......?

1]HINDUISM IS NOT A RELIGION...ITS ONLY RELATED TO A CIVILISATION.
2]WHO ACTuALY REPRESENT AS YOUR GOD
3]WHICH RELIGIOUS TEXTS SUPPORT THIS TEXT IS FROM THIS GOD.
4]HOW IN BAGAVAD GITA MENTIONED ABOUT POSITION OF EARTH(SCEINCE)
5]HOW HUMAN BEING CAN BE GOOD.....ALTHOUGH ,BIRTH OF EACH HUMAN BEING IS NOT DETERMINED BY HIM....
a] HUMAN BEING HIMSELF CANT PREDICT WHAT HAPPEN D NEXT.
b]HUMAN BEING HIMSELT DOES'NT HAV A KNOWLEDGE ABT HIS TIME OF DEATH.
C] HUMAN BEING IS MORE POWERLESS WITH DEATH THAN BEFORE ,,......BECS...WHEN HE IS ALIVE HE WAS SUPPORTED WITH PHYSIQUE & LIFE.

AFTER HIS DEATH.......HE TURNED NOT MORE THAN SOIL......


WHY U NEED TO AGREE ALL & MIX IT UP.....HAS ANY GOD ALLOWED U TO DO SO?

ALLAH HAS SENT TO EARTH LAKS OF PROPHETS & ALLAH HAS SENT HIS REVELATION OTHER THAN QURAN TO HIS MASSENGERS.................

REVELATION

A] ALONG WITH MESSENGER...HE ONLY REICITE(ITS PART OF HIS LIFE)
DOES'NT EXISTS AFTER MESSENGRS DEATH
B] MESSENGER ......CONVEY AND PRESERVE IN THE FORM OF BOOK.

C] ALLAH SENT HIS REVELATION WITH SAME SOUL BUT DIFFERENT BODY
( CONTENT- ONE GOD/ALLAH-WORSHIP & OBEY ---THIS THE SOUL)
(BODY WILL THE LANGUAGE USED TO EXPRESS---ARABIC, ARAMIC......ETC)


QURAN

THIS IS THE FINAL REVELATION ONE GOD/ ALLAH.

"THOSE WISDOM CAN UNDERSTANT THIS IS FROM ALLAH"

ITS QURAN FROM THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN & EARTH...ITS STILL REMAINED AS UNALTERED. ........SO STATUS QOU IS THE STATUS WHEN IT REVEALED..........NO CHANGE U CAN SEE.

ALLAH CREATED HEAVEN & EARTH & QURAN..

HERE ITS AVAILABLE FOR HUMAN KIND TO WORSHIP ALLAH & OBEY ALLAH...SO DO IT WITHOUT ANY DOUBT.
THIS BOOK CONTAIN CONTENTS OF ALL OTHER RELIGIOUS BOOKS...

HERE ALLAH HAS PROVIDED HIS FINAL ORDER TO THAT IS TO BE OBEYED BY ALL MANKIND TROUGH OUT HIS LIFE.

OTHER RELIGOUS TEXTS CONTAIN...SCEINTIFIC MISTALKES......& CONTARARY OPINION IN THE SAME TEXTS ITELF........( WHICH MEANS THAAT HUMAN KIND HAS MANIPULATED THE TEXT FOR THEIR PURPOSE Or
IT HAPPEND SO WHEN THEY TRANSLATED IT FROM ITS ORGINAL LANGUAGE...Eg BIBLE TRANSLATED FROM ITS ARAMIC LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH......HERE NOW U CAN ONLY FIND BIBBLE IN ENGLISH.......THIS HAS MANY MISTAKES OCCURED DURING TARNSLATION) & ARAMIC IS LANGUAGE NOT USING ANYMORE.

SO BROTHER....ALLAH HAS REVEALED HIS FINAL MESSAGE THROUGH PROPHET MUHAMMED (SALLAWU ALLAIWA SALLAM)...ITS IS INTACT & STAY LIKE THIS TILL THE DOOMS DAY........SO PRAY TO ALLAH & OBEY HIM WITH AGREEING WITH QURAN & PROPHETS(SALLAWU ALLAIWA SALLAM)...SUNNAH(DEEDS)


BOTH LIVING AND NON-LIVING THINGS ARE CREATION OF ALLAH AND THEY ARE ONLY THE CREATUE NOT CREATOR.......

OTHER TEXTS OTHER THAN QURAN IS MANIPULATED BY MAN THROUGH YEARS , SO IT CONTAIN WORDS FROM HUMAN BEING-WITH SCEINTIFIC & NON SCEINTIFIC MISTAKE.......SO ITS NOT ELIGIBLE TO FOLLOW...


SO FOLLOW FINAL AND LAST REVELEATION FROM ALLAH WHICH WILL BE INTACT TILL LAST DAY.

ALLAH IS ALL KNOWING......MAKE UR PRAYERS 7 DEEDS TO ALLAH...

QUARN IS AVAILABLE TO U & U ARE EDUACATED TOOOO\

JAZAK ALLAH GHAIR

 

[thetruth2009]

I am with you; I disagree with deleting posts. You know, our Islam is the truth, so if there is anything wrong written, the truth of our Islam has the reply to evidence what is right..

Hope my post wasn’t inconvenient & hope that we all take the Islam as what we say & believe in the (Shahada). All Muslims believe in Allah (swt) & His prophet (pbuh); so we have to believe in their speech..

It was reported to have been said during Muhammad's Farewell Sermon atop Mount Arafat after his Last Pilgrimage. The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

“I have left among you two matters by holding fast to which, you shall never be misguided: the Book of Allah and my Sunna”
(sited in Tabaqat al-Muhaditheen fi Asbahan by Abu al-Shaykh, al-Tamhid by Ibn Abd al-Barr, al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain by Hakim al-Nishaburi & al-Sunan al-Kubra by Imam al-Bayhaqi)

Allah says:
[4:115] As for him who opposes the messenger, after the guidance has been pointed out to him, and follows other than the believers' way, we will direct him in the direction he has chosen, and commit him to Hell; what a miserable destiny!


May Allah save us from the Hell, and may Allah make me, you brother & all of us in the Paradise (Jannah).. Ameen..

Wassalamo Alikom Wa rahmatollah..


----------------------------------------------------------------

Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

Assalam aleykoum sister,

I would like to thank you for your post and the time you took to reply to me, I appreciate, and I ask allah SWT to reward and to protect you and all your family.

I will Insha'allah if I am still alive and if I have a time, to reply you

AS you I ASK allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth and to give us the paradise insha'Allah, Ameen.


PS : I beleive in hathentic HADITHS but not all, how I do to see if a Hadiths is right or not by the Quran.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Brother, we believe in the authenticated hadiths as well. I believe we are not in disagreement inshaAllah

Ameen to your du'a.

 

[Proud of Islam]

Assalam aleykoum sister,

I would like to thank you for your post and the time you took to reply to me, I appreciate, and I ask allah SWT to reward and to protect you and all your family.

I will Insha'allah if I am still alive and if I have a time, to reply you

AS you I ASK allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth and to give us the paradise insha'Allah, Ameen.


PS : I beleive in hathentic HADITHS but not all, how I do to see if a Hadiths is right or not by the Quran.

Ameen ^^

You are welcome; actually it took time to write that, but we have to pay efforts for protecting our Islam :sunny:

I appreciate your appreciation! ^^

Brother, we believe in the authenticated hadiths as well. I believe we are not in disagreement inshaAllah

Ameen to your du'a.

Hopefully insha Allah..
:Alhumdill

----------------------------------------------------------------

Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

 

[Proud of Islam]

Ok, and about eating porks & hejab, I'll write about them later insha Allah...

Regarding eating pork, HinduIconoclast, I’ve seen this thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134283959-why-pork-bad.html

& I don’t want for this thread to be closed like the above one..

Therefore, you can go there:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/53013-why-has-allah-forbidden-eating-pork.html

You can read the posts & if you still have any question, discuss it there ^^


----------------------------------------------------------------

Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

 

[justahumane]

:wa:




I remember a revert story of a Hindu. His mother was very conservative . NO , she did not wear burqa but used to cover herself from head to toe.

After her death , when he ( that ex hindu) with brothers & other male relatives burnt the dead body , her clothes burnt first and all could watched the naked body . He was shocked . He thought , mom never came in front of my male cousins & other male relatives without veil but now all can watch her like this ?

It was a turning point for him , he started thinking about the way of treating the dead in other religions & finally accepted Islam

Peace Muslim Woman,

Well sister I m sorry to say that the story of hindu revert that U quoted is a balant lie. This is not the way that cremnation is done that the naked boly of deceased is visible to anyone even when the clothes are burnt. I challange it, Just reconfirm it, its shameful bundle of lies. I feel pained that misinformation about other religions is being spread in order to spread the truth ie Islam. What a shame.mg:

May I expect the ex hindu hinduiconoclast to confirm this naked lie?

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Why would u assume such nonsense? For your information, we are not allowed to lie about Islam. It's possible that that's how it was done with them. What a shame that you think this way.

 

[HinduIconoclast]

Peace Muslim Woman,

Well sister I m sorry to say that the story of hindu revert that U quoted is a balant lie. This is not the way that cremnation is done that the naked boly of deceased is visible to anyone even when the clothes are burnt. I challange it, Just reconfirm it, its shameful bundle of lies. I feel pained that misinformation about other religions is being spread in order to spread the truth ie Islam. What a shame.mg:

May I expect the ex hindu hinduiconoclast to confirm this naked lie?

First of all, I am a Hindu - not a former Hindu, lets get that straight first.

Also, I agree with you, this story has to be a complete fabrication. There is no way that the naked body is visible even when the clothing has burned away. And to my knowledge, many cremations are done with wood covering the body on top as well as supporting it on the bottom, so not much would be visible at all.

 

[justahumane]

Why would u assume such nonsense? For your information, we are not allowed to lie about Islam. It's possible that that's how it was done with them. What a shame that you think this way.

What nonsense U are talking about? One nonsense that I found on this thread was a false story of an imaginary revert. And it cant be possible that naked body of a deceased can be visible.Period. and I didnt say that anyone is lying about Islam.

Peace to U.

 

[justahumane]

First of all, I am a Hindu - not a former Hindu, lets get that straight first.

Also, I agree with you, this story has to be a complete fabrication. There is no way that the naked body is visible even when the clothing has burned away. And to my knowledge, many cremations are done with wood covering the body on top as well as supporting it on the bottom, so not much would be visible at all.

Oh sorry brother, I dont know how I got this wrong idea that U have converted to Islam.

Thanks for confirmation.

 

[thetruth2009]

Brother, we believe in the authenticated hadiths as well. I believe we are not in disagreement inshaAllah

Ameen to your du'a.

Assalam aleykoum my sister,


Do not worry I believe in authentic Hadiths, I am not Quoranic or something else, I am only a muslim. :statisfie

Assalam aleykoum, I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth, Ameen.

 

[thetruth2009]

Brother, we believe in the authenticated hadiths as well. I believe we are not in disagreement inshaAllah

Ameen to your du'a.

Ameen ^^

You are welcome; actually it took time to write that, but we have to pay efforts for protecting our Islam :sunny:

I appreciate your appreciation! ^^




Hopefully insha Allah..
:Alhumdill

----------------------------------------------------------------

Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

Assalam aleykoum my sister,


I have two questions :


When ( AGE ) our prophete mohamed SWS received the revelation ?

What was his religion before the revelation ?



Assalam aleykoum my sister, I am still reading your post.


Ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth, Ameen.