Do Angels Have free will?

[Snowflake]

I love the idea of Angels as well. They definatly add flavour, mystique and interest.

I would question why God wants angels, I know he wouldnt need them, nor would he need them to have wings.
He popped one outside eden with a sword to stop adam and Eve sneaking back in.
Why? Why not just make eden just inaccessable to them. They cross the line and they die or mayby in tune with his mercy, they just cant walk any further.
Why tie up an angel for 900 years till they die? Or longer if Eve outlived Adam, as girls generally live longer. Thats a Angel out of action waiting 1200 odd years for her to die.

Why shouldn't God want angels? It doesn't mean He cannot do everything Himself. Why not consider that God created angels so us mere mortals realise His powers of creation? Why did man create remote controls when we can walk to the TV and change channels that way? If man can show his abilities like that then why can't God do the same?

Why give the angel a sword? Its a freaking angel! It can kill with mind-bullets or something without a single atom of exertion. Whats the sword going to do?
Why not a M203 Minigun?
If Angels needed swords then the 1000 strong unit of angels, led by Gabriel, present at Badar wouldnt have been so effective in killing or wounding over 5% of the enemy combatants, assuming that the mortal muslims present killed nobody.

Just so many anomolys to be honest. i could go on for hours.....

If Allah wanted he could've destroyed the Quraish full stop. But praise be to Allah who is Fair & Just. Isn't is amazing that He sent angels with swords to fight the Quraish in fairness of their means of battle? It wouldn't have been fair otherwise. Just as it wasn't fair that the muslims were unprepared and outnumbered for the battle. Allah rewarded their trust in Him with His help and victory.

 

[InToTheRain]

The Angels always obey Allah(SWT) but it is not like the elationship between a person and it's machine. The Angels have their own will, and opinion, and even defer on opinion from what I have read.

[PIE]For example when Allah(SWT) instructed Gibrael(AS) to get soil from the earth to create Adam(AS) The earth said: "I seek refuge in Allah from your decreasing my quantity or disfiguring
me." So Gabriel returned and did not take anything. He said: "My Lord, the land sought refuge in
You and it granted."
So Allah sent Michael for the same purpose, and the land sought refuge with Allah and it was
granted. So he went back and said to Allah what Gabriel has said before him. Then Allah sent the Angel of Death, and the land sought refuge in Allah, the angel said: "I also seek refuge with Allah from returning without carrying out His command." So he took clay from the face of the earthand mixed it. He did not take from one particular place, but rather he took white, red, and black clay from different places.
[/PIE]

Angels always obey Allah(SWT), all 3 angels in the above example did as they were instructed BUT they had a difference in opinion, they have their own will, not all are the same. They all Love Allah(SWT) and Allah(SWT) loves them.

Why Allah(SWT) created Angels? so that they maybe grateful or maybe because Alah(SWT) is the only one capable of making such creations so He(SWT) thought he should do this as know one else is capable?
Do I think I will always be able to comprehend why Allah(SWT) does what He does with my limits? does it change the fact that it is true or false?

Have I got better things to think about? yes

 

[barney]

Why shouldn't God want angels? It doesn't mean He cannot do everything Himself. Why not consider that God created angels so us mere mortals realise His powers of creation?

If Allah wanted he could've destroyed the Quraish full stop. But praise be to Allah who is Fair & Just. Isn't is amazing that He sent angels with swords to fight the Quraish in fairness of their means of battle? It wouldn't have been fair otherwise. Just as it wasn't fair that the muslims were unprepared and outnumbered for the battle. Allah rewarded their trust in Him with His help and victory.

Stuff in Purple:
Thats a brilliant explaination, and one that I've considered over the years. The only flaw with it, is Angels are mostly invisible. Theyve been seen a handful of times, centuries ago in dubious circumstances. They are an invisible intangible sign of his power, who help people hear danger or see danger when they dont hear or see the danger by making them hear and see the danger.
Myself I call that reactions.
On the one occassion that they came to earth in force, over a battalion of them, Badar happened...which leds us on to

Stuff in Blue:
14 muslims died at that battle. Indeed the Quareshi were outnumbered, until the angels came.
That took the Quareshi force of 1300 facing the Muslim force of 300 Mortals and 1000 Angels.
In order to make it a "fair fight", the 1000 invisible intangible flying sword weilding Angels with their unworldly earth shattering powers, and numbering a thousand, each one capable of destroying galaxies with a blink of an eye attack, unseen by any of the warriors present except the Prophet and after several hours, the results are pretty consistant with what you would expect if you faced 300 highly motivated fanatical fearless desperate and poor warriors against 1000 fat rich caravan gaurds.
The result is not consistant with a outnumbered band getting hit by over a battalion of beings with almost infinate power.

If Bromhead at Rourkes drift said "God help us", and he probably did, then the 3700 Zulus attacking the completly surrounded 112 Redcoats were certainly not aware of lightning bolts from the sky or angels conducting volley fire by ranks. This diddnt change the result of 16 casulties on the british side vs 1700 on the Zulu.

It's my beleif that the Angels were not present, that perhaps it was more of a metaphor, or even that the Prophet said it to motivate his attackers.

At the end of the day, it is indeed a leap of faith. But this is definatly a situation for myself where I can see, not the hand of God, but the words of Man.

 

[Snowflake]

Stuff in Purple:
Thats a brilliant explaination, and one that I've considered over the years. The only flaw with it, is Angels are mostly invisible. Theyve been seen a handful of times, centuries ago in dubious circumstances. They are an invisible intangible sign of his power, who help people hear danger or see danger when they dont hear or see the danger by making them hear and see the danger.
Myself I call that reactions.
On the one occassion that they came to earth in force, over a battalion of them, Badar happened...which leds us on to

How is being invisable a flaw? And how can anyone react to something they are unaware of - unless divine intervention is at work?

Stuff in Blue:
14 muslims died at that battle. Indeed the Quareshi were outnumbered, until the angels came.
That took the Quareshi force of 1300 facing the Muslim force of 300 Mortals and 1000 Angels.
In order to make it a "fair fight", the 1000 invisible intangible flying sword weilding Angels with their unworldly earth shattering powers, and numbering a thousand, each one capable of destroying galaxies with a blink of an eye attack, unseen by any of the warriors present except the Prophet and after several hours, the results are pretty consistant with what you would expect if you faced 300 highly motivated fanatical fearless desperate and poor warriors against 1000 fat rich caravan gaurds.
The result is not consistant with a outnumbered band getting hit by over a battalion of beings with almost infinate power.

Barney, how do you know the angels fighting in the battle of Badr used their supernatural powers or by the will of Allah, in fairness used the force equivalent to humans? You agree that each angel might've possessed earth-shattering powers - then why the need for 1000 - in your own words, one was enough.... unless they weren't allowed to use their unmatched powers?

Also the verse in the Quran where Allah promised to send 1000 angels to help the muslims was revealed in Mecca before any of the events at Badr had ever taken place. So the Quran marked this miraculous occurence before it even happened. God knew. And you still believe not in the Word of God?

It's my beleif that the Angels were not present, that perhaps it was more of a metaphor, or even that the Prophet said it to motivate his attackers.

Muhammed (PBUH) never uttered a lie... nevermind metaphorically - not even jokingly. And why would Muhammed (PBUH) want to motivate his attackers - since their motive was to attack muslims in the first place.

At the end of the day, it is indeed a leap of faith. But this is definatly a situation for myself where I can see, not the hand of God, but the words of Man.

Barney, how much conviction do you have in the existence of God? Just curious..

 

[barney]

How is being invisable a flaw? And how can anyone react to something they are unaware of - unless divine intervention is at work?


Barney, how do you know the angels fighting in the battle of Badr used their supernatural powers or by the will of Allah, in fairness used the force equivalent to humans? You agree that each angel might've possessed earth-shattering powers - then why the need for 1000 - in your own words, one was enough.... unless they weren't allowed to use their unmatched powers?

Also the verse in the Quran where Allah promised to send 1000 angels to help the muslims was revealed in Mecca before any of the events at Badr had ever taken place. So the Quran marked this miraculous occurence before it even happened. God knew. And you still believe not in the Word of God?



Muhammed (PBUH) never uttered a lie... nevermind metaphorically - not even jokingly. And why would Muhammed (PBUH) want to motivate his attackers - since their motive was to attack muslims in the first place.


Barney, how much conviction do you have in the existence of God? Just curious..

The idea that they would drop in and start a fair fight against oppressors and disbelivers and none saw them, faithful or otherwise and the casulties were ridiculously low, and mohammed shouted that the angels were assisting in mid-battle. It's ,to me, a clear cut case.

I have a strong faith in Gods Existance, which I can reasonably prove,And a equal disbeleif in scripture which I can reasonably disprove.


The attackers being motivated in my example were the Muslims. Mohammeds cry was directed towards them.

Theres tons more on this, but i'm on a night shift, so I'm off to bed.

Laters.

 

[chacha_jalebi]

wooooooh

thread has gone more off topic, then a lost choo choo train

original question was answered, so

:threadclo