Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

[Grace Seeker]

I am not more knowledgeable, brother, but that is absolutely my understanding as well.

To Graceseeker: This has nothing to do with limitations, but has everything to do with ummmm, surroundings. Associating human attributes to God is what limits Him. For example: Why would God need to be in the bathroom, cesspools, etc? It is not necessary. If something horrible happens to me in a bathroom, like maybe a slip and fall, and I pray for help, He doesn't have to be there to hear my prayers. The idea of God being "everywhere" just doesn't make sense. Inside a cat? Hanging around the sewage? No, no, it's not necessary. He is far above all that.

Peace,
Hana

Hana, I think you must have missed this part of what I said above:

For Christians, while some of these are gross and places that we would not want to live; God is greater. I guess I shouldn't really leave anyone thinking that God exists within these places either. In saying that God is greater, one of the things that I am saying is that God exists outside of time and space. God doesn't even exist in the sanctuary of a church or the temple that Solomon built for him.

See, I specifically excluded the idea that you made of what I said that God hangs around in sewage. Just as you said:

He [God] doesn't have to be physically in a room to hear a prayer.

Of course God does NOT have to be physically present in a room. God isn't physically present any place, not in sewage and not in a church, temple or mosque either. God isn't a physical being; God is a spiritual being.

But, I wonder if I see a little bit of (coining a new word) "filth-ophobia" in your responses:

You may think God has no problem with disgust and filth and you may think it's HIS problem to deal with, but when He tells me to clean myself before prayer and pray in an area that is clean, etc., then I tend to think He has a problem with filth. Even Moses and Jesus cleaned themselves before prayer. So, save your rhetoric for another, non-Abrahamic faith...it doesn't apply here.

Kading: don't be an idiot. Try to keep up!! Who said there was something wrong with defecating and uninating? NO ONE. I said it is impure, unless of course you disagree that it isn't. In which case you need to attend health class 101. Next time try reading before making a ridiculous comment.

You see Kading is on target. It is something that is impure for us, because from it we can get diseases. God isn't going to be infected with a disease. He instructs us in these things for our sake. And then, because we are human beings living in a physical world, he encourages us in the use of the things from our world to help to bring us into a deeper relationship with God himself. For instance, there is nothing sacred about circumcision, except that God has made it so. There is nothing unholy about eating pork, except that God has asked us to avoid it in obedience. There is nothing special about the position we get in to pray, except that our very human conditioning has taught us that we prostrate ourselves before those who are greater than us, so of course we should prostrate ourselves before God who is greater than all. I dare say that if our human experiences was that we were conditioned to stand on our heads when addressing kings and other superiors in our lives, that we would find ourselves being taught to stand on our heads when we pray. (No, that is not a joke, and if you don't get the subtlety of how and why God might so direct us, then I suggest you don't call Kading an idiot.) God uses the physical things of the physical world that we know and see to teach us truths about the spiritual world which we cannot see and only know in part. So, God instructed his people to purify themselves as they approached God because the physical act of so doing would help to reming them of the importance of purity of heart and spirit as well. These things are called rituals. And in case you are not aware of it the rituals for cleansing oneself before prayer that Moses and Jesus would have practiced would have done nothing to make one truly physically clean, it used just a few drops of water more likely to make mud than to wash off any real dirt. But doing so was a ritual way of reminding oneself of the importance of coming clean before God, even of letting him cleanse one of spiritual dirt and living a spiritually clean life. (I thought this understanding still existed in Islam; if you have lost it, I grieve for that loss in your life.)


Again, Mustafa, as you and I talk, I find that we actually have much in common, we just all too often find different words to express it. I see now that what you meant above -- by "Muslims don't believe that Allah is omnipresent or that He exists in all places at the same time - except in His Knowledge. We definitely don't believe that Allah exists within toilets, cesspools, brothels, or other despicable places." -- is not really all that different from what I believe.

Allah is closer to us than our in juglar vein, but that does not mean that He courses through my body, rather He knows our innermost thoughts and intentions.

I took the liberty of quoting "Fatima" from her answer to this question on another forum that may explain the Muslim understanding of Allah's Presence better than I did.

“And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then, I am indeed near. I answer the prayer of the supplicant when he calls on Me. So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright” {2:186}

COLOR=blue]He knows that which goes deep down into the earth and that which comes forth [/COLOR][/B]out of it, and that which comes down from the heaven and that which goes up into it, and He is with you wherever you are; and Allah sees what you do.

See how much that sounds like one of our Psalms:

Psalm 139:1-12
1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.

4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

5 You hem me in—behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, [a] you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,"

12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.

So, I am in full agreement with Fatima when she writes:
Obviously one can easily understand these verses to mean, that Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala is near to you and to everyone equally since he is not in any location in particular. Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala is "everywhere" in the sense that there is no place that is without his presence. Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala is close to us through His complete knowledge.

Indeed, when she writes:
Now I am sure you are aware that our creator can not be bound in time and space so His presence is above every thing and We can not give a physical decription of His throne.
Is it not the essence of what I have already referred Hana to above: "In saying that God is greater, one of the things that I am saying is that God exists outside of time and space." The difference is that because I understand God to exist outside of time in space, that I also understand that God cannot be soiled by the things of this world. So, concerns that there is something untoward about associating God with things that we think of is filthy seems a bit anthropomorphizing with regard to God. Now, granted sometimes I do this -- I put on my "Sunday best" to go to worship, but that is as much for me and my attitude as it is for God. I don't think it matters to God if I worship in a pair of holy jeans if I am truly offering worship.

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. (Psalm 51:17)

There is a wonderful story from the life of Jesus that I think applies to this part of our overall discussion:

Mark 7
1The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and 2saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were "unclean," that is, unwashed. 3(The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)
5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"

6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.' 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

17After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

I understand this to mean that the type of "filth" that God is concerned with is not that which makes a man's hands dirty, but that which shows that his heart is impure. This "spiritual filth" is what can actually separate us from God. But, though revolting to us humans, something as simple as some soil on the hands while eating or even an entire cesspool, God is big enough to handle those sorts of things no problem. He doesn't even really have to deal with them because he lives outside of them.

 

[*Hana*]

Graceseeker:

I did miss that part of your post, Sorry about that.

The rest wasn't directed at you but I don't agree with your response at all. If you read what I said, it has nothing to do with filthophobia at all.

I said Kading was an idiot for responding TOTALLY inappropriately and had nothing to do with what I posted. If he wants to discuss the wonders of defecation and urination he can open another thread.

As I said, I'm not wasting my time arguing about such things. Anyone can believe as they please, it makes no difference to me whatsoever. Be clean, be dirty, pray filthy, pray in filth...whatever floats your boat. In Islam it is not acceptable to intentionally dismiss wudu. Period. (To clarify when I say "you" it's generic...not directed at you personally.)

Those who will continue to argue and ask "what if you're in the middle of nowhere and there's no water, and it's all dusty...blah, blah, blah" Islam takes care of that too.

Anyway, carry on, have fun and enjoy. Graceseeker and MustafaMc are having an interesting conversation and I shouldn't have interrupted.

Peace,
Hana

 

[Keltoi]

Grace Seeker posted the verses that I look to for my understanding of what is "filth" to God. It isn't dirt on your feet and hands that makes one "dirty" in the eyes of God, but the spiritual filth that we carry with us all the time, whether we took a 4 hour shower or not.

 

[Trumble]

I said Rhetoric and that's exactly what I meant.

If you did, you do not understand the distinction I tried to draw to your attention. However, as you seem incapable of producing any argument to support your point of view beyond ad hominem waffle I certainly agree there seems little point in discussing the point further.

 

[MustafaMc]

See, I specifically excluded the idea that you made of what I said that God hangs around in sewage. Just as you said:Of course God does have to be physically present in a room.

Did you mean to say "does NOT have to be physically present"?

God isn't physically present any place, not in sewage and not in a church, temple or mosque either. God isn't a physical being; God is a spiritual being.

I am not sure that we can say, "God is a spiritual being" any more than we can say that God said "Let us make man in Our image, according to our likeness". We don't know the nature of Allah, but He knows our nature. Quran 24:35 Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche, in which there is a lamp, the lamp is enclosed in crystal, the crystal is of a starlike brilliance, it is lit with the olive oil from a blessed olive tree which is neither eastern nor western, its very oil would almost be luminous though no fire touched it - as though all the means of increasing Light upon Light are provided - Allah guides to His Light whom He pleases. Allah cites such parables to make His message clear to the people; and Allah has knowledge of everything.
This does not sound like a "spirit" to me.

For instance, there is nothing sacred about circumcision, except that God has made it so. There is nothing unholy about eating pork, except that God has asked us to avoid it in obedience. There is nothing special about the position we get in to pray, except that our very human conditioning has taught us that we prostrate ourselves before those who are greater than us, so of course we should prostrate ourselves before God who is greater than all.

Another way of looking at these very points is that Allah is testing us to see if we are obedient or disobedient, submissive to His Will or self-serving.

So, God instructed his people to purify themselves as they approached God because the physical act of so doing would help to reming them of the importance of purity of heart and spirit as well.

I don't disagree with you on this point that inner cleanliness is very important

These things are called rituals. And in case you are not aware of it the rituals for cleansing oneself before prayer that Moses and Jesus would have practiced would have done nothing to make one truly physically clean, it used just a few drops of water more likely to make mud than to wash off any real dirt. But doing so was a ritual way of reminding oneself of the importance of coming clean before God, even of letting him cleanse one of spiritual dirt and living a spiritually clean life. (I thought this understanding still existed in Islam; if you have lost it, I grieve for that loss in your life.)

Again, inner cleanliness is very important. This reminds me of Quran 107:1-7 Have you seen the one who denies the Day of Judgment? He it is who drives away the orphan with harshness and does not encourage the feeding of the poor. So woe to those who offer Salah (prayers), but are neglectful of their Salah (offer Prayers but disregard the very purpose of establishing Salah - to have the fear of Allah and be mindful to the needs of other people); those who make a show of piety and refuse to share the necessities of life. Note that the portions in parenthese are explanatory interjections in the translation.

 

[Muslim Woman]

.... carry on, have fun and enjoy. Graceseeker and MustafaMc are having an interesting conversation and I shouldn't have interrupted.

Peace,
Hana

i once thought of jumping in but did not :sunny:

 

[MustafaMc]

Grace Seeker on another thread said:

But I don't think that a true messenger of God would ever say some of the things about Jesus that Muhammad said. For all to good he did in bringing knowledge of God to Arab pagans, to then say that belief in Jesus, his divinity, his crucifixion and resurrection are shirk and would keep a person from God -- these statements as so far off the mark it is like he was temporarily playing for the other team. No prophet of the God of the Bible would do these things.

According to this quotation, it sounds like Christians worship the "God of the (NT) Bible" more specifically Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit. This is NOT Allah that we know through the Quran because Christians include Jesus in their concept of God. Therefore, the God that they worship is not the One God, Allah, that Muslims worship.

Quran 3:64 Say: "O People of the Book! Come to an agreement between us and you, that we shall worship none but Allah, that we shall assign no partner to Him, and that none of us shall take for lords beside Allah." If they turn away, then say: "Bear witness that we are those who surrender [to Allah]."

 

[jd7]

The correct answer is No. Although they both acknowledge “The Prophet” they disagree as to who/what the “prophet" is/was.

 

[Keltoi]

The correct answer is No. Although they both acknowledge “The Prophet” they disagree as to who/what the “prophet" is/was.

As I said before, if Christians and Muslims weren't worshipping the same God, then we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. It boils down to Jesus Christ in the end, that is the doctrine that divides us and it must be that way. Christians cannot and will not reject Christ as God, and Muslims cannot and will not accept Him as God. However, in the end we are talking about the same God. We simply understand Him much differently.

 

[MustafaMc]

As I said before, if Christians and Muslims weren't worshipping the same God, then we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

This is correct to an extent. There is but One God; however, our respective concepts of God are in fact very different.

It boils down to Jesus Christ in the end, that is the doctrine that divides us and it must be that way. Christians cannot and will not reject Christ as God, and Muslims cannot and will not accept Him as God. However, in the end we are talking about the same God. We simply understand Him much differently.

You clearly illustrated the primary point of contention. You and I both know what you mean here, but to an independent observer your post is completely illogical. To paraphrase:

Christians believe that Jesus is God, but Muslims don't believe Jesus is God; however, they both believe in the same God.

Can anyone come up with a more illogical statement than that?

 

[Grace Seeker]

There is but One God; however, our respective concepts of God are in fact very different. You clearly illustrated the primary point of contention. You and I both know what you mean here, but to an independent observer your post is completely illogical. To paraphrase:

Christians believe that Jesus is God, but Muslims don't believe Jesus is God; however, they both believe in the same God.

Can anyone come up with a more illogical statement than that?

And you've just given the best simple exposition on the hypostatic union that I have ever seen. It is a completely illogical statement, yet I think most people on this board know intuitively that each part of the statement is indeed true.

 

[MustafaMc]

Only a Christian would come back to the ludicrous statement, "Christians believe that Jesus is God, but Muslims don't believe Jesus is God; however, they both believe in the same God" with an equally ludicrous statement "most people on this board know intuitively that each part of the statement is indeed true". Clearly, the Quran teaches us that Jesus is not God, yet Christians persist in their disbelief in the Oneness of Allah. Although there is but One God, Christians associate others (Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him) with Allah in their worship. In Islam this is clearly shirk - the Unforgivable Sin if one dies in that state of disbelief. Repent before it is too late.

5:17 Indeed those have committed Kufr (rejected faith) who said, "God is the Messiah, son of Maryam." O Muhammad, ask them, "Who has the power to prevent Allah if He chose to destroy the Messiah the son of Maryam, his mother and all that is in the earth? Allah has the sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He creates what He pleases and has power over everything".

5:72 Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Maryam (Mary)." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb." Whoever commits shirk (joins partners with Allah), Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers.

5:116 After reminding him of these favors, Allah will say: "O Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Marry), Did you ever say to the people, "worship me and my mother as gods beside Allah?" He will answer: "Glory to You! How could I say what I had no right to say? If I had ever said so, you would have certainly known it. You know what is in my heart, but I know not what is in Yours; for You have full knowledge of all the unseen.

9:30 The Jews say: "Uzair (Azra) is the son of Allah," and the Christians say: " Messiah (Christ) is the son of Allah." That is what they say with their mouths, imitating the sayings of the former unbelievers. May Allah destroy them! How perverted they are!

4:171 O People of the Book! Do not transgress the limits of your religion. Speak nothing but the Truth about Allah. The Messiah, Isa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary) was no more than a Rasool of Allah and His Word "Be" which He bestowed on Maryam and a Spirit from Him which took the shape of a child in her womb. So believe in Allah and His Rasools and do not say: "Trinity"." Stop saying that, it is better for you. Allah is only One Deity. He is far above from the need of having a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the Earth. Allah Alone is sufficient for protection.

 

[YusufNoor]

And you've just given the best simple exposition on the hypostatic union that I have ever seen. It is a completely illogical statement, yet I think most people on this board know intuitively that each part of the statement is indeed true.

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

i would agree that the hypostatic union is a completely illogical idea, which proves that it cannot represent Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala. True worship is not a trick question decided by necromancers supported by mysterious rituals.

there may be descriptions of Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala that we don't understand fully, but Islam is completely logical; maybe not to those who absolutely refuse to see the truth, but completely logical nonetheless!

like i've stated before, there are similarities between Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala and the "father" part of the Christian trinity, as for God and Jesus it is strickly Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala and servant Jesus/Isa ibn Marriam, Alaihe Salaam, which is VERY LOGICAL.

if one human could've been born without "original sin", then all can be...

 

[Grace Seeker]

Only a Christian would come back to the ludicrous statement, "Christians believe that Jesus is God, but Muslims don't believe Jesus is God; however, they both believe in the same God" with an equally ludicrous statement "most people on this board know intuitively that each part of the statement is indeed true". Clearly, the Quran teaches us that Jesus is not God, yet Christians persist in their disbelief in the Oneness of Allah. Although there is but One God, Christians associate others (Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him) with Allah in their worship. In Islam this is clearly shirk - the Unforgivable Sin if one dies in that state of disbelief. Repent before it is too late.

What is wrong with my statement? Or with my coming back to your statement?

It is true what you said: Christians believe that Jesus is God.

It is also true: but Muslims don't believe Jesus is God;

And as I read this forum it seems that the last part of your statement is also true: however, they both believe in the same God.

You may choose to dispute that the last part of this is true, but I just went back and read through this thread. Here are the results.

Regarding the question which is the topic of this thread: Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

Christians who answered in the affirmative -- 4

Christians who answered in the negative -- 0

Muslims who answered in the affirmative -- 9

Muslims who answered in the negative -- 3

Muslims who answered both Yes and No -- 3
(These are ones who, like yourself, initially said YES that Christians do worship the same God as Muslims because Christians do worship the God of Abraham, that is Christians do worship the God that Jesus worshipped and therefore that Muslims worshipped; yet also NO because in worshipping Jesus too Christians are adding associates or partners to God thus Christians are also worshipping different gods.)

Well, for those 13 people who understand that Christians and Muslims do worship the same God, yet for whom it is obvious that there are also different views with regard to Jesus, your statement rings true: Christians believe that Jesus is God, but Muslims don't believe Jesus is God; however, they both believe in the same God.

You may call it shirk. Yusuf may call it illogical. But the majority of us on this board (and not just Christians but Muslims too) that have posted a position on it have affirmed it.

 

[YusufNoor]

What is wrong with my statement? Or with my coming back to your statement?

It is true what you said: Christians believe that Jesus is God.

It is also true: but Muslims don't believe Jesus is God;

And as I read this forum it seems that the last part of your statement is also true: however, they both believe in the same God.

You may choose to dispute that the last part of this is true, but I just went back and read through this thread. Here are the results.

Regarding the question which is the topic of this thread: Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

Christians who answered in the affirmative -- 4

Christians who answered in the negative -- 0

Muslims who answered in the affirmative -- 9

Muslims who answered in the negative -- 3

Muslims who answered both Yes and No -- 3
(These are ones who, like yourself, initially said YES that Christians do worship the same God as Muslims because Christians do worship the God of Abraham, that is Christians do worship the God that Jesus worshipped and therefore that Muslims worshipped; yet also NO because in worshipping Jesus too Christians are adding associates or partners to God thus Christians are also worshipping different gods.)

Well, for those 13 people who understand that Christians and Muslims do worship the same God, yet for whom it is obvious that there are also different views with regard to Jesus, your statement rings true: Christians believe that Jesus is God, but Muslims don't believe Jesus is God; however, they both believe in the same God.

i know quite a few Christians who don't believe that Jesus is god, only a somewhat lesser form such as His son or just a tiny part but definitely NOT equal to.

You may call it shirk. Yusuf may call it illogical. But the majority of us on this board (and not just Christians but Muslims too) that have posted a position on it have affirmed it.

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,


as for:

Yusuf may call it illogical.]

i believe i said:

i would agree that the hypostatic union is a completely illogical idea,

we only equate Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala with the God of Irbahim, Alaihe Salaam, and with "the God that Jesus worshipped", but IN NO WAY would we equate Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala with His slave & servant Jesus/Isa ibn Marriam Alaihe Salaam.

just to clarify...

 

[MustafaMc]

An analogy for this discussion is color blindness. According to Wikipedia the series of bars on the left appear as red, orange, yellow, green blue and magenta to a person with normal vision, but to a color blind person the two series of bars are indistinguishable. For example, green and orange on the left series appear nearly identical to a color blind person, but to one with normal vision they are distinctly different colors.



To a Christian, Jesus and the Father are different persons (shades) of the same entity, but, to a Muslim, they are distinctly different entities (colors) with one being the servant of the Other. Can a normal sighted person ever prove to the color blind one that the image on the left is actually 6 distinct colors instead of shades of only 2 colors? What about vice versa for a color blind person to prove that they are really the same and indistinguishable? Likewise, can a Muslim ever prove to the Christian that Jesus and Allah are distinctly different entities? What about vice versa for a Christian to prove that they are really the same?

Honestly, these concepts about Jesus and Allah are fundamental to our respective faiths and one cannot change his understanding of these concept without changing his entire belief system - or religion. That "paradigm shift" is not likely to happen without Divine guidance, such as happened to me 26 years ago.

 

[Muezzin]

If two different religions both believe in one God, surely that God must be the same God? Simple mathematics.

 

[MustafaMc]

If two different religions both believe in one God, surely that God must be the same God? Simple mathematics.

From your perspective, do Christians believe in One God with Jesus being fully human and yet fully God?

 

[Muezzin]

From your perspective, do Christians believe in One God with Jesus being fully human and yet fully God?

I don't fully understand the concept of the Trinity. I was just injecting a little levity into proceedings.

 

[Grace Seeker]

An analogy for this discussion is color blindness. According to Wikipedia the series of bars on the left appear as red, orange, yellow, green blue and magenta to a person with normal vision, but to a color blind person the two series of bars are indistinguishable. For example, green and orange on the left series appear nearly identical to a color blind person, but to one with normal vision they are distinctly different colors.



To a Christian, Jesus and the Father are different persons (shades) of the same entity, but, to a Muslim, they are distinctly different entities (colors) with one being the servant of the Other. Can a normal sighted person ever prove to the color blind one that the image on the left is actually 6 distinct colors instead of shades of only 2 colors? What about vice versa for a color blind person to prove that they are really the same and indistinguishable? Likewise, can a Muslim ever prove to the Christian that Jesus and Allah are distinctly different entities? What about vice versa for a Christian to prove that they are really the same?

Honestly, these concepts about Jesus and Allah are fundamental to our respective faiths and one cannot change his understanding of these concept without changing his entire belief system - or religion. That "paradigm shift" is not likely to happen without Divine guidance, such as happened to me 26 years ago.

So, if you had two people, one who looked a a flag, said it was one flag but made up of three fabrics with colors red, orange and green and another that said it was one flag and not to associate different fabrics with it, which person would you suspect is color blind and which one is not?