Do christians worship God (not Jesus)?

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I have a question that has been really bugging me and i would really appreciate it if the christian brothers and sisters would help me understand this.
Firstly i do not have any knowledge whatsoever of the 1st two scriptures the torah and the bible, i have come across verses but to be honest i have never paid much attention since my main attention has been towards the Qur'an and islam.

Now a few weeks back i was on youtube watching clips as usual and i cam across a video from a christian brother that was anti islam and had many videos posted about how Allah swt is a fake God ( Astaghfirullah!!!)

So regardless at one point his arguement was this, now as he put it according to christian belief as long as the person believes in god as in the holy trinity (if that is what it is named) then that person goes to heaven in the hereafter. And was criticising islam on the basis that our so called fake God ( Astaghfirullah) holds us account according to our deeds even if we do believe in Him.

Now what i dont understand and what i fail to understand i should put it is say for arguments sake you have a murderer or a rapist or a child molester who believes in god (holy trinity) with firm belief but yet does wrong and commits major sins how can they then go straight to heaven just on the basis that they believe in god ( holy trinity)????

And on the other side you have a jew or a buddhist who strive all their life for humanity and do people no bad or harm but just do not believe in that god (holy trinity) and they go straight to hell for that whilst heaven is full of christian murderers, rapists and child molesters and oppressors just because these people believed in the holy trinity????

Would you not think that there is a big flaw in that?
 
It usually isn't then entire trinity that one must state belief to, just Christ, but it is assumed that if you do that that the other two are implied.

Depending on the flavor of Christianity you are dealing with things can vary but the general rule is yes, no matter what you have done; murder, rape, etc, if you decide to suddenly accept Christ into your life you are absolved of everything you have done, you have a new slate, that is how they view things.
 
basically, some denominations of the christian faith beleive that God is made up of Three forms, all of which ARE GOD.. just like water has 3 forms - Water (Liquid Form), Ice (Solid Form), Water Vapour (Gas)

The three forms of God are God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.. and soo I guess this is why some pray to Jesus, because they beleive he is God, in a different form.. thus the Trinity comes into Play

Some christians (Jehovah's Witnesses especially) beleive that Jesus was God's first creation of life, even before the heavens and earth, even before Adam and Eve etc etc but these denominations do not recognise Jesus as God, but usually do recognise his importance and end prayers by saying 'and we say this through your Son Jesus Christ Amen' just like Jesus delivered the Good News, they see him as a messenger to God and so ask prayers through his name.

Many Many other christians say prayers through Jesus as well including Trinitarians alike. But christians are not polytheists as some might tend to beleive, perhaps its how we interpret and perceive God that distinguishes us from other monotheistic groups

Within Islam there is strictly 1 God, and none as high or as equal, all are prophets who speak his work. Some denominations of Christianity allow the Supreme Diety as having another form - Jesus Christ

Hope this helps, sounds a little confusing, but Christians beleive in ONE God, its just the interpretations. :) God Bless





Questioning about Christianity are so brilliant question:


Talk bout Christian here what i begin:


Christian believe in "Trinity". "In the name of the father, and the son and the holy spirit" Amen. Why the christian put sign of the cross when they see something OMG! why Do christian pray to Mother Mary and Jesus.? Cause The both human are perfect human and born sinless.So the christian believe that why Mary and Jesus come to the world just like an angel...so that's why christian pray to the sculptureso of Mary and Jesus...cause christian patronise Mary and jesus to pray for them, cause we as a normal human are sinners.People assumed mother mary never die her body and soul lifted up to heaven and jesus is a miracle to the Jews and christian...cause why a woman can bear a child without a man intercourse with her?here the pinnacle that the jews and christian deviation the truth....so is a miracle that Jesus so intelligent to answer the questions of the people of israel....So the christian making Mother mary is mother of god and jesus is son of God?

Here the quotes of the bible to be considered:

a) Begotten son of god

- Jesus said to be the only begotten son of God(John 3:18)
- About David the bible says" The lord has said unto me. Thou art my son, this day have i begotten thee(psalm2:3)


b) Son of God

- Thus says the lord that, israel is my son even my first born(exodus 4:22)

c) God as husband

-For thy Maker is thy husband; the Lord of hosts is his name and thy redeemer the holy one of Israel.(isaiah 54:5)

- The Church is known as the Bride of Christ



Can these make sense?

Even the christian priests deviation the truth...and the christian believers are follow blindly.




A'uzubillahi minas syaitanir Rajim..

Bismillah Hir Rahma Nir Rahim

" Say , He is God, The One and Only, God the eternal,absolute.
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten and there is none like unto Him.
(Surah al-ikhlas 1-4)
 
prayer for mother mary ,God,Jesus:

Holy Mary full of grace
the lord is be with you
blessed you are amongst woman
blessed fruit of ya womb jesus
Holy Mary mother of God
pray for us sinners now,
and hour of our death.

amen...


Our Father in heaven
holy be ya name
ya will be done
as on earth as it in heaven
give us our daily bread
forgive us our sin
and we forgive those who sin against us
but delivered us from evil

Amen.


Lord Jesus Christ,on son of the father
Lord God; Lamb of God
you take away the sin of the world
have mercy on us
you seated at the right hand of the father
receive our prayer
for you alone are the Holy one
You alone are the lord
you alone are the most high, jesus christ with the holy spirit
in the glory of God the father.Amen..



Does these make sense?


trinity are making people crazy....

if there're 3 god...the world r fighting for God position..anyone also wanna be king....huhu
 
Why the christian put sign of the cross when they see something OMG!
First, not all Christians actually do make the sign of the cross. Those that do use it simply as a mnemonic device to remind themselves to pray in the name of "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." I believe nearly all people, including Muslims that I have prayed alongside in Friday prayers, have such mnemonic devices.



why Do christian pray to Mother Mary and Jesus.? Cause The both human are perfect human and born sinless.So the christian believe that why Mary and Jesus come to the world just like an angel...so that's why christian pray to the sculptureso of Mary and Jesus
Actually that isn't true. If this is your understanding of Christian prayer you have been misinformed.

The reason that Christians pray to Jesus, and through Mary are different questions and have completely different answers.

We pray to Jesus because we do believe that Jesus is simply the incarnation of the one Holy and Almighty God, the creator of the universe. Since Jesus is God, it makes perfect since to pray to Jesus, for it is just simple prayer to God.


As regards Mary, Christians don't really pray to Mary, but rather pray through Mary. (Yes, you will hear people use other language, but that is because they are being lazy and imprecise rather than speaking as correctly on this issue as they should.) I've noticed that many Muslims ask other Muslims to offer prayer (supplications) on their behalf. These prayers are not offerings of worship, but are asking for God's help. Christians too offer these types of prayers. Whereas Muslims have two different names for them, Christians often (not always) just use the term "prayer" to cover all sorts of prayers be they petitions, supplications, adoration, praise, or worship. And most certainly Christians, not less than Muslims, we make prayers of supplication seeking help.

In addition to praying for myself, sometimes I might ask a neighbor, a friend, a brother, another Christian, to pray for me when dealing with a particular crisis or problem in my life. I think you understand that taking these things to others and asking them to join me in these prayers of supplication is not worship. But we ask others to join us because the believe that the prayers of a righteous man can aid much. And somehow people sense that a corrollary to this is that the more people you ask to pray for you the better chance of being heard one's prayer has. (I'm not sure that is true, but as others say, it couldn't hurt.)

Anyway, it is also helpful to understand that many Christains believe that those who belong to God, enter into eternity with him not at some distant day of future judgment, but enter into eternity with God at the moment of their passing. And still other Christians believe that some people may have to spend some time in purgatory being purified of their sins before being able to enter into paradise with God, but over time this would be accomplished for the more righteous rather quickly and for the less righteouss more slowly but eventually. Certianly, Mary is viewed as one of the more righteous people who ever lived, but she is just viewed as a person. (When Catholics speak of her as the Mother of God, they don't mean that she is divine, they are only speaking of her role as having given birth to Jesus who was the incarnation of God come among us.) But I get ahead of myself.

As I might ask a friend to pray for me now, so too I might ask a friend who is in heaven to pray for me. This makes perfect sense when one remembers that people's lives don't end at death, but continue in the spiritual realm (a realm that is just as real as the physical world and one in which God abides). Therefore, why not continue to ask those persons to pray for us once they have entered into the spiritual realm? Those who see Mary as being especially close to Jesus think that Jesus might be more inclined to listen to a request made on our behalf from his mother than from us directly. It is for this reason that some (certainly not all) Christians pray through Mary, asking her to inteceede on their behalf, adding her own supplications along with those that they themselves are offering. Of course, there are many Christians who don't bother to pray through Mary or any other pesons, but take all of their petitions and prayers of supplication directly to God themselves.




So the christian making Mother mary is mother of god and jesus is son of God?
I just addressed this above. Mary is the mother of God not as a divine being, but only as the consequence of having been the mother of Jesus who we do understand to be Immanuel (i.e. God with us).

To say that Jesus is the Son of God is something completely different. It doesn't have anything to do with biology at all. It is a title that already existed for God's Messiah even before Jesus was born. Since Jesus is the Messiah (even Muslims admit this), then it is appropriate to call him "the Son of God". It is also appropriate to call him "the Son of Man" as this too was another title for the Messiah. And the terms "the Son of Man" and "the Son of God" are not contradictory, rather they speak to two different, but simultaneously true aspects of Jesus nature. Not that he was the biological progeny of either God or all of mankind at once, but that he has the hypostatic union of both the divine nature and human nature complete in one person. Something that would not work in nature, but then we are dealing with the supernatural when we are dealing with God, so that is no longer a problem except for those who minds cannot think of heavenly things but only in earthly terms.


Here the quotes of the bible to be considered:

a) Begotten son of god

- Jesus said to be the only begotten son of God(John 3:18)

While some well-known English versions of the Bible use the term "begotten" to translate the Greek in which this was originally written, there are other (I believe better) translations. One of those is NIV which renders the verse as follows: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." The actual word being translated is μονογενους the connotation of which again has nothing to do with biology (which is why I don't prefer the term "only begotten" as I think people misunderstand it too easily) but speaks of uniqueness. And indeed Jesus was truly unique in his person.


μονογενους happens to also be the word used in other passages such as "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14), and "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known" (John 1:18) which again speak of the uniqueness (not the paternity) of Jesus.

But one of the more amazing places in which the term μονογενους is used is in Hebrews 11:17 to speak of Isaac as the μονογενους of Abraham. Well as any good Muslim would know, Isaac is NOT the only begotten son of Abraham. Isaac has an older brother, Ishmael. So "only begotten" is NOT the best translation for μονογενους. That is why I suggest the concept of "uniqueness" is a better understanding of what is trying to be communicated by that term, for indeed Isaac was unique the son of the promise that God made to Abraham when God told Abraham that Sarah would give him a son.

- About David the bible says" The lord has said unto me. Thou art my son, this day have i begotten thee(psalm2:3)
Again, you see the concept of "uniqueness" is more appropriate here than is biological progeny.


b) Son of God

- Thus says the lord that, israel is my son even my first born(exodus 4:22)
Another case in which an English phrase needs to be understood in terms of the connotations involved in the original language. Here God is speaking in figurative language to Moses.


c) God as husband

-For thy Maker is thy husband; the Lord of hosts is his name and thy redeemer the holy one of Israel.(isaiah 54:5)

- The Church is known as the Bride of Christ
Again it is figurative language, the nature of the relationship between Christ and his church is a model for the type of relationship a husband and wife should have. That is Christ gave his life for the church (or its people anyway) and the church should be submissive to Christ in the way brides of that era were expected to be submissive to their husbands.
 
huhu...why the christian bow down to the sculpture of MAry and Jesus...oh mother mary pray for us....why we must begged Mary to pray for and jesus also...-please help me jesus....pray for me....u r my saviour and Lord?...why jesus are saviour...jesus just a messenger of God and He show the way to worship God, one God.only god...we should pray straight to God..Does Jesus and Mary Really hear christian prays? only one true God hear who prays! on Era of the century of mARy and JEsus can help people to pray....cause MAry still alive and Jesus teaching his disciples...cause now mary and jesus no more here, how can they pray for us? we must pray for ourselves... and muslim dont pray through to muhammad,but pray straight to Allah...no need to cry to mary and jesus sculptures please them to pray for us.nonsense! we must help ourselves, we born alone,we eat alone,we die alone,we sleep alone,and etc...no one will help us to do things..if not we do it ourselves.
 
Does these make sense?


trinity are making people crazy....

if there're 3 god...the world r fighting for God position..anyone also wanna be king....huhu

Yes, they do.

The first is a bit of liturgy used in the Catholic church. The prayer is not offered to Mary as worship. Rather it is actually composed of two parts. The beginning is simply quoting the angel's greeting to Mary at the point where the angel shared with her that she was going to be pregnant with Jesus. The second half of it is a request asking for Mary to pray on the individual's behalf just as I have already explained above.

The middle prayer is taken directly from scripture. Jesus is the one who taught his disciples to pray this way. If Jesus taught it, it is not surprise that we would maintain the practice.

The last is an adaptation of statements made about Jesus in scripture and put together in this liturgical prayer.



As all of these are basically taken from scripture, it makes total sense to me for people in the church to use them. Do you not quote the Qur'an in your Islamic prayers? If that makes sense to you, why would it not make sense to quote the Bible in ours?



I do understand why the Trinity might be making you crazy if you perceive it as talking about three different gods. Be assured that it isn't. The Trinity in no wise is meant to speak of three different gods at all. Rather it is an proclamation that there is only one God. You might see us worship the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit (and by the way you will never see a true Christian worship Mary), but we are not worshipping three gods when we do this. All three persons are but one being, so we are still worshipping just one God. I think some people think of three persons as if they were three individuals (a very western concept), but we do not mean three individuals when we speak of the three persons of the one God. Perhaps it would be better for those who are confused in that way to think of three personas (as opposed to thinking in terms of persons)? No doubt you have probably noticed how a single individual can have different personas depending on the situation in which he finds him/herself. So, if persona helps you to better understand, then think that way rather than of persons. For Christians DO NOT worship three different gods, but only the one true God, the God of Abraham. It is just that he is known to us in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but still just one God. There is no fighting for position for no matter who you name, there is just one king.






huhu...why the christian bow down to the sculpture of MAry and Jesus...oh mother mary pray for us....why we must begged Mary to pray for and jesus also...-please help me jesus....pray for me....u r my saviour and Lord?...why jesus are saviour...jesus just a messenger of God and He show the way to worship God, one God.only god...we should pray straight to God..Does Jesus and Mary Really hear christian prays? only one true God hear who prays! on Era of the century of mARy and JEsus can help people to pray....cause MAry still alive and Jesus teaching his disciples...cause now mary and jesus no more here, how can they pray for us? we must pray for ourselves... and muslim dont pray through to muhammad,but pray straight to Allah...no need to cry to mary and jesus sculptures please them to pray for us.nonsense! we must help ourselves, we born alone,we eat alone,we die alone,we sleep alone,and etc...no one will help us to do things..if not we do it ourselves.


Some of your statements regarding Christians are not true. And the answer to other question is simple -- it is because we simply believe differently than Muslims.

I have explained about the prayers. I have said that only some Christians practice praying "to" (but really through) Mary. And for them it isn't a "must", it is simply a preference, in the same way that you might prefer to ask your brother to pray for you.

The reason we pray to Jesus is because he is God. If you don't accept that latter, then of course you wouldn't pray to him. No Christian would pray to Muhammad either. Muhammad doesn't measure up to Jesus (at least not from a Christian perspective). Jesus is more than just a prophet. Jesus is not simply a messenger. Jesus is himself the message, he is the living Word of God become incarnate among us. Jesus is Muhammad, the Qur'an, and Allah all wrapped up into one being. That is shirk to your understanding, but it very simply explains why Christians worship and pray to Jesus.

As for idols, any idols, Christians do not worship idols of any sort. If you see someone doing this, please stop them, remind them that this is not Christian practice. Of course, that doesn't mean that the presence of statutes are bad, because we don't recognize them to be genuine manifestations of the person. They are just pieces of rock (or wood or some other material) nothing more. They are not objects of worship, but only objects of art the same as any painting or photograph.


I disagree with your last set of comments most vociferously:
we must help ourselves, we born alone,we eat alone,we die alone,we sleep alone,and etc...no one will help us to do things..if not we do it ourselves.


If Christians were to call something shirk, this would be it. It is totally untrue that we must help ourselves, for in fact we cannot ever help ourselves. Rather we are totally dependent on God, not ourselves, for whatever we need both in this life and in the next. The sooner one comes to that realization and quits trying to make it to God on one's own, and instead seeks God's help in life the better off one will be.
 
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Sure. A mnemonic device is one relating to, assisting, or intended to assist the memory.


This is taken from the New Advent Encyclopedia which has a lengthy article on the "Sign of the Cross":
A term applied to various manual acts, liturgical or devotional in character, which have this at least in common: that by the gesture of tracing two lines intersecting at right angles they indicate symbolically the figure of Christ's cross.

Most commonly and properly the words "sign of the cross" are used of the large cross traced from forehead to breast and from shoulder to shoulder, such as Catholics are taught to make upon themselves when they begin their prayers, and such also as the priest makes at the foot of the altar when he commences Mass with the words: "In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti". (At the beginning of Mass the celebrant makes the sign of the cross by placing his left hand extended under his breast; then raising his right to his forehead, which he touches with the extremities of his fingers, he says: In nomine Patris; then, touching his breast with the same hand, he says: et Filii; touching his left and right shoulders, he says; et Spiritus Sancti; and as he joins his hands again adds: Amen.)


This phrase, in Latin, can also be rendered in English as follows: "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen." The joining of them together serves to remind the devotionate whom they are worshipping when they worship God.



In attendance at Friday prayers in mosques I have noticed that there are ritualized patterns of body language that also convey meaning. (If they had no meaning why would we ritualize them?) For instance, getting prostrate reminds us of who we are before God.
 
Sure. A mnemonic device is one relating to, assisting, or intended to assist the memory....

In attendance at Friday prayers in mosques I have noticed that there are ritualized patterns of body language that also convey meaning. (If they had no meaning why would we ritualize them?) For instance, getting prostrate reminds us of who we are before God.
Yes, there are definitely ritualized actions and postures in the Islamic salah, but I would not say that they "assist the memory".

The Islamic salah is performed according to how Prophet Muhammad prayed 1400 years ago and our intention is to perform it exactly how he did. This reminds me of the disciples question to Jesus before he told them to pray the Lord's Prayer.

Some actions and postures such as standing with the head bowed, bowing at the waist and prostration on the floor/ground are signs of humility before One of exceedingly greater rank, but I am unsure of the meaning of raising the hands to shoulder level or sitting in a particular posture. I understand that pointing with the right index finger while sitting symbolizes the Unity of Allah. In this case, I would say these are symbolic rather than mnemonic gestures.
 
i believe in MustafaMc, i wonder why That christianity start with trinity?
Name of the father,and the son and the holy spirit.Amen! does this make sense....why Christianity that God begetteth the Son...God created Adam...that means Adam is 1st son of God, JEsus 2nd son of God...cause They dont have father...and born to the world.and God is his father.pretty funny that mother mary is mother of God....mother mary is daughter of omran and hannah...!how she can be mother of God...she just normal human.she **** and urine also... so Mary is the mother to God....so mary is stronger than God? it is?
 
In this case, I would say these are symbolic rather than mnemonic gestures.

OK. I agree with you regarding their emphasis. I just happen to personally see these as two sides of the same coin, but I will not split hairs over it.
 
i believe in MustafaMc, i wonder why That christianity start with trinity?
Name of the father,and the son and the holy spirit.Amen! does this make sense....why Christianity that God begetteth the Son...God created Adam...that means Adam is 1st son of God, JEsus 2nd son of God...cause They dont have father...and born to the world.and God is his father.pretty funny that mother mary is mother of God....mother mary is daughter of omran and hannah...!how she can be mother of God...she just normal human.she **** and urine also... so Mary is the mother to God....so mary is stronger than God? it is?

I take it you didn't bother to read Grace Seeker's response to this? Sometimes it helps to actually read the answer to your question before posting the same question again.
 
Ya, i had agreed. i just commenting...:-


A'uzubillahi minas syaitanir rajim....


Why in christian have such of idols like St. John,St.Joseph,St.Jude and etc paintings....do we know how they look like? or are the painting same like what the painter vision? we can't simply make some analisys of the painting is the pictures of that person...even we cant craft the sculptures of Mary and Jesus in the Church. Christian believe they pray to God....but why they must still put the idols,painting,or sculptures in the church...by the mean,Nothing can put except the name of God,YahWeh...jews and Christian God. Just the Yahweh writing in hebrew should be put in the jews temples and christian church...and state Yesus(Jesus) in hebrew as a prophet of God...nothing we can pray through a messenger to God or through saint to God...Just BoW down and Surrender to God.... submit yourself to God....? Why christian speaks in English not in neither Roman nor Hebrews? cause stated that Religion oF jews and christian...So they follower should be able to speak hebrews/roman.Recite the Torah,psalm and bible in hebrew? why in English? where is your Holy Books? can anyone tell me.
 
Why christian speaks in English not in neither Roman nor Hebrews? .

Lol how old are you, this is my first question.
Then think again,do all christians speak in english? Those in Brazil and Kenya also? Those in Syria and Germany too? What about those in Egypt and France?

So they follower should be able to speak hebrews/roman.Recite the Torah,psalm and bible in hebrew? why in English? where is your Holy Books? can anyone tell me.

Do all muslims know arabic?
 
i means why the jews and christians dont recite their holy books in hebrews...and their holy books in in English....in muslim We have Quran in Arabic and we have translation book of Quran in English those who dont understand meaning in arabic....we have tafseer....Quran...? i know religion and race are differents...i just to impliment that Why Bible in English not Hebrew....the Holy bible that now holding by christian and jews are English translation not the origin books?
 
Maybe because a sentence "A jewish rabbi Jesus Christ died on a cross and ressurected and appeared to be Son of God" means the same in hebrew, greek, english and german.
 
yeah i agreed...but i want the Qriginal book of torah,psalm and injil(bible) in hebrews...not translation version of bible in english,chinese and etc...i also have Malay language quran translation, chinese quran translation and english translation quran....u know the the bible meaning english...in modern holy bible...but must to know how to recite your holy books in Hebrews? understand what i gonna say?
 
yeah i agreed...but i want the Qriginal book of torah,psalm and injil(bible) in hebrews...not translation version of bible in english,chinese and etc...i also have Malay language quran translation, chinese quran translation and english translation quran....u know the the bible meaning english...in modern holy bible...but must to know how to recite your holy books in Hebrews? understand what i gonna say?
Greetings, Suffiyan

This topic is really not very much connected with the topic of this thread. It may be better to start another thread, or to ask a question about it in the 'Questions for Christians' thread.

To answer your questions very briefly, you have to understand that Christians don't look at the Bible in the same way Muslims look at the Qu'ran. You simply cannot compare the two. Trying to do so will only lead to confusion ...

The Bible does not claim to be God's dictated word (as the Qu'ran does).
The Bible shows the history os God's relationship with his people.
It tells us about Jesus' life, his teachings and his death and resurrection.

The message of the Bible remains the same - regardless of the language it is printed in.
We do not believe that God gave us the Bible in his 'divine language', and we have to preserve it like that.
We believe that God gave us the Bible message to share with as many people as possible - whichever language that may be!

I hope this helps you understand.

Salaam :)
 

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