Do none muslims agree that the quran has no contradictions?

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Honestly, no. The quaran has also a lot of contradictions same like the bible. Muslims, neither Christians, of course like to hear it, and of course both claim to have the perfect book. Muslims just spend more time to refute them. There comes a good example to my mind: My father once told me: Never buy a car from a brand, who have huge sparepart shops, as they tend to wreck fast and spend more time in the repair shop than on the street. Well, in Islam, some people spend more time to refute than to pray. Get the similarity?

Here are a few examples which look like they are contradictions. But I'm pretty sure, some will now become upset and curse me and immediately start to refute them:

  1. What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
    • "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
    • "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
    • "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
    • "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
    • "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
  2. Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
    • "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
    • "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
    • "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
    • Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).
  3. The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
    • "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
    • "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
    • "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).
  4. Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
    • Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
    • Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
    • The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).
  5. Are Allah's decrees changed or not?
    • "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
    • "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
    • None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
    • When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
  6. Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
    • "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
    • Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).
  7. Is wine consumption good or bad?
    • O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
    • (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
    • Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

Now, please refrain from bashing. I just answered to the question

oke these are just pasted from '' I WANT TO PROVE THAT THE QURAN IS WRONG NO MATTER WHAT'' website, i have to go to college now so i havent got time to answer them all,

the one about the wine, if the people who wrote this only read the actuall quran they they would of find this here

(43) Facing one another on thrones, (44) Round them will be passed a cup of pure wine,— (45) White, delicious to the drinkers, (46) Neither will they have Ghoul (any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache, a sin) from that, nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom. Surah As saaffat

so the wine in the heaven is not like the wine in the earth??
 
^^^ LOOOL its sad how they actually have sites like that for real... some even got warnings for muslims that if they go they will leave non muslim....i came in muslim and left muslim...hehe... and yeah not all those that guyabano posted are true ppl get random things outa no where these days...
 
I think of religion like a medical licensing exam..

there isn't a wrong answer per se but a most correct answer

take for instance testing for a pheochromocytoma..
you could potentially measure, urinary metanephrine and VMA levels , you could do CT scan to visualize a mass, you could do an MRI, you can do a iodine-131-meta-iodobenzylguanidine or even an Octreotide scan .. bottom line is none of them are wrong, but one is most correct for the situation an a person needs to be very well studied in the matter...
I personally think one should handle all his affairs with the same tenacity, be it here or for the here after.. seems like everything builds on it.. it wouldn't be good to make the wrong decision....

Anyhow it is nearly 4am and I am going to sign off..

cheers
 
ok ok ok, I see what's going on, ladies !

Stop to bash already on a Monday Morning or else I will be bad mood for the rest of the week. These lines come indeed from a website, as I didn't read the Quaran completely. And even if I would read it, I would read the German translation as it's more easy for me. But then again, this one may also be not acurate.
The only thing I notice it the arrogancy of some muslims to simply deny all possibilities of contradictions without even making the effort to explain WHY it is wrong.
Never forget: Perfection doesn't exist !
 
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hey guyabano, am in a break now (10 min break between my biology lesson) but all these contradictions mentioned above have a CLEAR answer to them and inshallah i will state them later on... peace till then
 
ok ok ok, I see what's going on, ladies !

Stop to bash already on a Monday Morning or else I will be bad mood for the rest of the week. These lines come indeed from a website, as I didn't read the Quaran completely. And even if I would read it, I would read the German translation as it's more easy for me. But then again, this one may also be not acurate.
The only thing I notice it the arrogancy of some muslims to simply deny all possibilities of contradictions without even making the effort to explain WHY it is wrong.
Never forget: Perfection doesn't exist !

Don't worry about it, believe me, you aren't the only person to use cut and paste from "contradiction" sites on this forum. There are plenty of websites devoted to "contradictions" in the Bible that have been pasted hundreds of times on different threads.
 
If a non-muslim thought the Qu'ran was in a "perfect state" then they would probably not still be a non-muslim (maybe an aethiest though :P)

Haha so true,

I have read the Quran, and it has it's moments, nice piece of writing. But nothing grasps me like my own Scripture Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Having read Bible, Rig Veda & Torah as well) Made interesting reading though.
:D
 
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Not to go off topic or anything, but it's just amazing how the Qur'an takes the words right out from their mouths:

{When Our Verses are recited to him, he says: "Tales of the men of old!"} [al-Qalam; 15]

{And of them there are some who listen to you; but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they see every one of the Signs they will not believe therein; to the point that when they come to you to argue with you, the disbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the men of old."} [al-An'aam; 25]
This is one of the reasons I doubt religious texts. They spend a lot of time talking about how bad things are going to be for non-believers and how non-believers will respond. This struck me in the opening lines of the Quran -

[1.5] Keep us on the right path.
[1.6] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

They are anticipating the criticisms and trying to blunt them. To me it comes across as though they have nothing to back up their argument so they just try to use a debating tool to turn it around.

In my opinion, if they had the TRUTH, then they wouldn't have to resort to this tactic.

Just my two cents to help you see the way I see things and am not saying I have the TRUTH either.

Thanks.
 
TO guyabano so called contradiction from a so called website...

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

First, consider point number 4, read these three translations
Pickthall: Doth not man remember that We created him before, when he was naught?
Shakir: Does not man remember that We created him before, when he was nothing?
Yusuf Ali: But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing

By reading Pickthall and Shakir too, you will understand that Allah is saying that We created man and he did not even exist before that. He was nothing. It is obvious that if God created everything then there must have been a time when everything we see was "nothing," including humans.

As for 2 (sounding clay) and 3 (dust) this is what the first human being Adam (peace be upon him) was created from; and what is clay but dust and water? As we are all progeny of our father Adam, we are essentially made of the same ingredients and this can be observed when a human dies and his body decays!

As for 5 (sperm-drop), it is obviously reproductive fluid necessary for the embryo to be formed. And 1 (congealed blood) is one of the stages of the developing embryo! The different stages have been described together in the Quran as well in many verses. As in:
It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot(congealed blood) ; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then let you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom (40:67)
I wonder, if three bakers were to come visit the author of this list and one were to say: "Bread is made from flour," the next were to say "bread is made from dough" and the third were to say: "Bread is made from wheat," if he would consider this a "contradiction" too?
If two physicists now came along and one said "bread is made from atoms" and the other said "bread is made from molecules," would this be an even further "contradiction"?

The embryological studies in the Quran are in fact are too advanced for anybody to have known 1400 yrs ago. Understanding this, many embryologists in the past decades have embraced Islam recognizing that the source of this knowledge must be divine. Christians (not laymen but world-renowned specialists of embryology) have repeatedly attested to the accuracy of the embryological details in the Quran and Hadith,

Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

Pharaoh was killed by drowning. If you read the first verse, in it Pharoah after knowing that he is dying accepts Islam bur the doors of repentance are closed on a person once his death ‘starts’. Allah is admonishing him saying that We shall not save you from death and the punishment after it today, but your body shall be saved and preserved so that it may become a sign for all those after you. This is confirmed from numerous other verses and Prophetic sayings. Pharaoh’s body lies in the Cairo Museum today!

Now consider this article:

“Dr. Maurice Bucaille is an eminent French surgeon, scientist, scholar and author of "The Bible, The Quran and Science" which contains the result of his research into the Judeo-Christian Revelation and the Quran. It is a unique contribution in the field of religion and science.

Being an outstanding Scientist, he was selected to treat the mummy of Merneptah (Pharaoh), which he did. During his visit to Saudi Arabia he was shown the verses of the Holy Quran in which Allah says that the dead body of the Pharaoh will be preserved as a "Sign" for posterity.

An impartial scientist like Dr. Bucaille, who (being also a Christian) was conversant with the Biblical version of Pharaoh's story as being drowned in pursuit of Prophet Moses. He was pleasantly surprised to learn that unknown to the world till only of late 20th century, the Holy Quran made definite prediction about the preservation of the body of that same Pharaoh of Moses' time. This led Dr. Bucaille to study the Holy Quran thoroughly after learning the Arabic language and accepted Islam as the truth.

The body of Pharaoh is now lying in a Cairo museum as an open miracle of the Holy Quran, for those who pay heed to the signs of Allah.”

And that piece of historical information about the destiny of Pharaoh's corpse wasn't known by anyone of the humans when the Holy Quran came down and even after it came down by several centuries it was also unknown but it was declared in the book of Allah on the tongue of the uneducated prophet, which proves that the source of this knowledge is the inspiration from Allah. Advanced post-mortem techniques show that the body did not stay in the water for a long time and is very well-preserved.

Tony, these alleged ‘contradictions’ are from Matt Slick. What he was trying to do was turn people away from the Quran. What he has in his ignorance done is point out the miracles of the information of the embryo and Pharaoh in the Holy Quran.

Allah says: "And We have indeed simplified [the comprehension of] this Qur'an for remembrance, so is there any that will remember and be admonished?" (54:17)

And he says: “….(In) behaving proudly in the land and in planning evil; and the evil plans shall not beset any save the authors of it….” (35:43)

And also: “We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?” (41:53)

These are the short and straight forward answers. If you have any doubts/confusions about what I have written, I shall provide you with addresses of websites where these matters have been explained in more detail Inshallah. May Allah guide you. (Aameen)

The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

They were all muslims my friend:)

Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of (one)God and obedience to His law. All these above messenger used to do so:)

Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

Allah’s decrees can be changed by none but Allah himself. Obviously Allah can abrogate an order in one revelation by sending another revelation (that of course during the time the Quran was being revealed). There is no contradiction here. Those who consider this a contradiction are like those atheists who ask absurd questions like “If Allah can do everything, can He make a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” I think it is clear enough.

Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

look at this website for a very clear answer !! http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=article&aid=30

i hope this makes it clear, and my answers yes are cut and paste:) from wiser brothers and sisters
 
Yes, these answers are very good explained, even I get the feeling, that it is not always the question which is always answered. Duh, sounds weird ??

No, seriously, the question was, who was the first muslim? And you answer me they were all muslims. Ermm, but that didn't answer the question.

And this kind of refutations go through all the questions. I get answers, sure, but somehow, it's never the precise answer to a precise question.

It's the same with the wine. Wine is wine, no muslim can now pretend, there are different sorts of wines.
 
I can't speak to contradictions within the Quran as I have not studied it extensively.

I can speak to the general contradiction of the idea of a holy book though. If an all powerful God wished to be known, that God would be known. There would be no need for midlemen or messengers such as prophets or holy books. We would simply know what we are meant to know and that would be that. This would not interfere with free will as we would still be free to obey or disobey the commands of said God.

The existence of the Quran, Bible, and other holy books means that either they are works of fiction and the Gods they depict do not exist or that said Gods do exist but do not wish to be perfectly known by all. The holy books seem to conflict with that.
 
Yes, these answers are very good explained, even I get the feeling, that it is not always the question which is always answered. Duh, sounds weird ??

No, seriously, the question was, who was the first muslim? And you answer me they were all muslims. Ermm, but that didn't answer the question.

And this kind of refutations go through all the questions. I get answers, sure, but somehow, it's never the precise answer to a precise question.

It's the same with the wine. Wine is wine, no muslim can now pretend, there are different sorts of wines.

wait, the one about the wine,,, the quran says the wine in this world we are not allowed to drink. and the wine in the paradise is made delicious with no intoxicants soo uhmm.... do u agree that we are talking about ''THIS LIFE'' and ''PARADISE''??

About the fuzz ur making about who was the first muslim i hope a wiser brother or sisters answers u soon.. :)
 
oke these are just pasted from '' I WANT TO PROVE THAT THE QURAN IS WRONG NO MATTER WHAT'' website,

These cut-and-paste posts annoy me too.
I mean, anybody can visit Answer-Christianity or Answer-Islam and cut and paste such articles.
(Of course, they are used both ways: One says: 100 reasons why Jesus cannot be God. The other: 100 reasons why the Qu'ran is not the word of God. etc. etc.)

Personally, I refuse to visit such sites.
We have to remember that these debates between Islam and Christianity are 1400 years old! There is nothing that hasn't been debated and discussed already, possibly a million times. None of us are going to come up with a new revelation!

Instead I enjoy understanding how people interpret their own faith, how they apply it and how they live it. I love to explore the human element behind other religions.
If I wanted to know what they scholars say, I would look in other places, not in a discussion forum such as LI.
And as it happens, I like it here better! :D

Peace
 
Salaam 3alekum.

I have always wondered if the none muslims agreed upon that the quran is in a perfect state, free from any contradicts, accurate scientific proofs etc... since this forum has a very large number of none muslims so i though this is the place to ask:)..
thanks alot.
peace

hola Hamada,

i have read the quran but that was well over a year ago. i do not believe that the quran is free from contraditions, nor do i believe in the scientific or mathematic miracles that muslims believe exist in the quran. i think there are many internal contradictions within the quran, and contraditions between what the quran says and what is in fact true in the outside world. i also have a difficult time trying to understand what muslims mean by 'perfect' when they talk about the quran... sometimes they say it means there are not contradictions, sometimes they say it means there is miraculous knowledge and sometimes they say it means it is written in a poetic or impressive way in the original arabic, sometimes it is a combination of all of these things...

que Dios te bendiga
 
Maybe you can point out the contradictions that 'you've' found?
or we can wait until you find a special site from google..

And of course you'd have a difficult time understanding.. It is expected :sunny:

cheers
 
Maybe you can point out the contradictions that 'you've' found?
or we can wait until you find a special site from google..

And of course you'd have a difficult time understanding.. It is expected :sunny:

cheers


hola,

i don't know what google has to do with anything, but i'd prefer to not discuss specifics with you. this isn't the appropriate setting. i was somewhat surprised that muslims think non muslims believe the quran is perfect or non contradictory... why would we remain something other than muslim if that were so?

que Dios te bendiga
 
IMHO, the Quran is not free from error and it does include certain contradictions. As it has ben proven many times on hese board, discussing them is totally useless.
I do not think the Quran is miracolous in any way. It does contain some interesting word repetition, which are partially intentional and partially cincidence. As for the scientific miracles... I don't think the verses in question are miraculous in any way. Interesting yes, but no.
 

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