In the documentary? No, I don't think so.
Documentary on channel 4: The Qur'an
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In the documentary? No, I don't think so.
Fishman
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The documentary was balanced, which was a good thing, but they only featured extreme people. Its like putting a battleship and a small hill on a scales, and then going 'ooh, look! Its very balanced!'
In one extreme they had that ranting Egpytian guy who said that female circumcision is Sunnah, and that the reason why there is promiscuity in the west is because women are not circumcised. And in the other hand there was that woman who decides that she has the qualifications to interpret the Quran herself and decide that hijab is not part of Islam, and the German guy who wrote what seems to be an Islamic version of The Da Vinci Code.
AvarAllahNoor
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No, I mean did the Imams after Mohammed not say if his sayings were in the Quran in his time period? or did the Quran not be compiled whilst they were not alive either?
Your confusing me.
Muhammad [pbuh]'s sayings aren't recorded in the Qur'an, but a separate book written by humans called the book of hadiths, or hadiths of the Prophet [pbuh] etc etc.
Basically, it's been a long time since the Prophet [pbuh]'s time, and people are always changing history. Nobody knows for sure when his sayings were written, as stated above.
Muhammad [pbuh]'s sayings aren't recorded in the Qur'an, but a separate book written by humans called the book of hadiths, or hadiths of the Prophet [pbuh] etc etc.
Basically, it's been a long time since the Prophet [pbuh]'s time, and people are always changing history. Nobody knows for sure when his sayings were written, as stated above.
Eeman
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Hoping for the best.
isnt that superstition?
aamirsaab
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I have three opinions:
1) those verses on paradise are metaphorical (I'll believe it when I see it kind of deal) So it doesn't matter what it says really.
2) That the ayats are literal but take the houri connotation and not the grapes. Basically, I agree with Ajmal's (the enthusiastic imaam from london) position: those ayats had to have been understood by arabic speakers, so even if it was originally in syriac then the arabic speakers had to have understood it and put it into arabic
3) From what I remember, the German dude actually was altering the ayats i.e. putting the dots on places that didn't have a dot. In other words, he's out and right changing the ayats!
In any case, from what we saw of his findings none of it actually changed the core essence of the Qur'an - only minor details such as houri into grape and the Mary ayat. It's essentially a translation argument; it will say slightly different things in each translation and since he chose to interpret those verses into syriac (as opposed to arabic) and then translate it into English, of course there will be differences. Overall though, it's nothing too big; the core of Islam is still there and I believe a lot of those verses he re-translated were metaphorical anyway
.Strangely, some guy on a facebook discussion tried to use that german dude's work to dispute Islam a day before The Qur'an program actually came on tv -so I was very eager to listen to his side of the story when he came on the program. To my surprise, we were given nothing to contradict Islam's teachins. LOL!
It's a figure of speech, sis.
BlackMamba
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Malaikah
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The Quran says that "We shall marry them to Houris[] (female fair ones) with wide, lovely eyes." [Chapter 44 verse 54]
Please tell me how someone can marry a grape?! It's so obvious the word doesn't mean grape!!!!!!!
truemuslim
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Re: The Qur’an
What do ya mean? You mean the unreligous part? If so, well they listen to music, told me its not haram, they smoke the sheesha, told me its not haram, they never lower their gaze, told me its not haram, they dance like crazy, told me to do it (psh yah right) , they memorize the entire quran but only know it like music, they not knowing the meaning of it, thats why when they teach me, i gotta check out the tafseer on my ipod.
What do ya mean? You mean the unreligous part? If so, well they listen to music, told me its not haram, they smoke the sheesha, told me its not haram, they never lower their gaze, told me its not haram, they dance like crazy, told me to do it (psh yah right) , they memorize the entire quran but only know it like music, they not knowing the meaning of it, thats why when they teach me, i gotta check out the tafseer on my ipod.
Simply_Logical
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BlackMamba
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Lol ya maybe they became hafiz at a young age and against their own will, but they can still take 10 family members to jannah as long as they till know quran
truemuslim
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oh no no see one of them memorized at like 20, another just memorize a week ago she like 17 and another like 18 or something. they not too young.
Mashallah i never knew that. kwlll tank u :statisfie
Uthman
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A mixed up view of Islam
Shia Muslims were seriously misrepresented in a documentary about the Qur'an. Channel 4 must now right the balance.
Yesterday's letter from leading British Shia Muslims to Channel 4 is a significant example of Muslims doing what they are often accused of not doing – making effective use of complaints procedures available to them when the media is seen to attack their religious beliefs.
The Channel 4 documentary, The Qur'an, was indeed frustrating to watch for anyone with even a general knowledge of Islam.
Shia Muslims were rightly annoyed, not because of sensationalist portrait of their beliefs, but because their faith was straightforwardly misrepresented. Biased judgments were made about supposedly correct and incorrect interpretations and understandings of the Qur'an and, by extension, belief in Islam.
The supreme irony, which the signatories of the letter, and any reasonably intelligent individual can discern, is the connection that was made between Shia Islam and the legitimisation of violent extremism. Yet the Shia reality tells a fundamentally different story – Shia Muslims are more often than not victims of terrorism and extremism and Shia theology is opposed to extreme forms of *******sm, whilst sharing many similarities, at both cultural as well as religious level, with Sunnism.
To try and tar the Shia with the same brush as some extreme *******s is a serious cause for concern, not only because Shias are targeted by extremists in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, but also because such accusations could potentially lead to attacks against them here.
Indeed, scouring through various blogs, comments such as the following, on the MPAC website, illustrate my point. Henry says:
The film presented a very confused – and confusing – thesis about interpretation and legitimacy and added nothing qualitative to discussions about the Qur'an. There was little or no mention of the common things that bind all Muslims, regardless of school of thought. Moreover, the allegation that the Shia accuse others of tahrif (falsification of the Qur'an) is view harboured by only a handful of people from any school of thought, yet is repeated in the documentary as fact. Today, any talk of a falsified Qur'an is as irrelevant as the argument in Christendom that Protestants are heretics by Catholic standards or vice versa.
Channel 4's response thus far has been woefully inadequate and has not provided any clear answer to the questions raised by the Shia representatives in the letter. To argue that "the film was critically acclaimed and generated a positive response" is mere defensive spin.
Channel 4 must not only hold its hands up and admit it has gone wrong with this one but it should try to live up to the principles enshrined in its own public service remit, namely to produce "high quality and diverse programming" which "appeals to the tastes and interests of a culturally diverse society". It should do this by commissioning a documentary about the schools of thought in Islam.
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Shia Muslims were seriously misrepresented in a documentary about the Qur'an. Channel 4 must now right the balance.
Yesterday's letter from leading British Shia Muslims to Channel 4 is a significant example of Muslims doing what they are often accused of not doing – making effective use of complaints procedures available to them when the media is seen to attack their religious beliefs.
The Channel 4 documentary, The Qur'an, was indeed frustrating to watch for anyone with even a general knowledge of Islam.
Shia Muslims were rightly annoyed, not because of sensationalist portrait of their beliefs, but because their faith was straightforwardly misrepresented. Biased judgments were made about supposedly correct and incorrect interpretations and understandings of the Qur'an and, by extension, belief in Islam.
The supreme irony, which the signatories of the letter, and any reasonably intelligent individual can discern, is the connection that was made between Shia Islam and the legitimisation of violent extremism. Yet the Shia reality tells a fundamentally different story – Shia Muslims are more often than not victims of terrorism and extremism and Shia theology is opposed to extreme forms of *******sm, whilst sharing many similarities, at both cultural as well as religious level, with Sunnism.
To try and tar the Shia with the same brush as some extreme *******s is a serious cause for concern, not only because Shias are targeted by extremists in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, but also because such accusations could potentially lead to attacks against them here.
Indeed, scouring through various blogs, comments such as the following, on the MPAC website, illustrate my point. Henry says:
I would imagine Tehran and Qom would be unhappy with the programme's correct depiction of quasi-pseudo Shiite Islam, but then they would be. A few majestic moments of film was sufficient enough to demolish the Shiite argument brick-by-brick.
While Jennifer says:
... it did increase my knowledge of Shia perspectives (which seemed un-Islamic to me)
And Shan says:
As for shias i respect them in the same way as hindus-christians and jews, the issue is the others do not pretend to be muslims, whereas the shias pretend to be muslims
Such reactions show that the film did not achieve its goal, which was to clarify issues of interpretation of the Qur'an. They support the view that the filmmaker might have been manipulated in favour of one particular interpretation.
The film presented a very confused – and confusing – thesis about interpretation and legitimacy and added nothing qualitative to discussions about the Qur'an. There was little or no mention of the common things that bind all Muslims, regardless of school of thought. Moreover, the allegation that the Shia accuse others of tahrif (falsification of the Qur'an) is view harboured by only a handful of people from any school of thought, yet is repeated in the documentary as fact. Today, any talk of a falsified Qur'an is as irrelevant as the argument in Christendom that Protestants are heretics by Catholic standards or vice versa.
Channel 4's response thus far has been woefully inadequate and has not provided any clear answer to the questions raised by the Shia representatives in the letter. To argue that "the film was critically acclaimed and generated a positive response" is mere defensive spin.
Channel 4 must not only hold its hands up and admit it has gone wrong with this one but it should try to live up to the principles enshrined in its own public service remit, namely to produce "high quality and diverse programming" which "appeals to the tastes and interests of a culturally diverse society". It should do this by commissioning a documentary about the schools of thought in Islam.
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aamirsaab
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The reason why they were misintrepreted was because that documentary was juggling all things islamic. So when it came to the (arguably, large) bit about the shias, it could only show the amount it did. Think of it this way; say you advertise yourself as a pro juggler and that your act will show you juggle every object (on this planet!); when it comes to it, you'll catch most but you're bound to miss a few. That's exactly what happened with the documentary; too many things were being juggled (because they were trying to show EVERYTHING about Islam in a 2 hour program in order to make it a fair view overall). Unfortunately, it backfired in several cases.
Oh well.
Uthman
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There is a documentary airing on National Geographic tonight called Inside the Koran. It might be the same one. I don't think we get that channel in the UK though.
Where do people get that channel? Is it in the US?
Where do people get that channel? Is it in the US?
Uthman
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Bump. Anybody got any info on this?
BlackMamba
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Ya I just checked and its on Natl Geographic channel like you said, that's if you have DishNetwork then its channel 186. I am recording it just in case I'm not in at 6. Thanks for telling about it because I probably would have missed it otherwise, its airing about 1hr45min from now.
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BlackMamba
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Ya I watched it, I don't think it was good at all. They had a few good people talk but other than that it was pretty bad and I was real pissed off while watching it. Especially towards the end when they started showing the Germans, they.started suggestng that the Quran is not in it's original state and then saying that the dots of the letters are wrong and just a bunch of BS.
And just seeing the Sufis and Shias made me mad too, do Shias really do that much shirk? Cuz if they do them I now understand why some call them non-muslims. But I was shocked to see some of the people that were talking on the show , ajmal masoor was good and tariq Ramadan also, but like the Germans were just awful. And they tried to fit WAY to much stuff in to the program, they never talked about one issue thoroughly enough.
And just seeing the Sufis and Shias made me mad too, do Shias really do that much shirk? Cuz if they do them I now understand why some call them non-muslims. But I was shocked to see some of the people that were talking on the show , ajmal masoor was good and tariq Ramadan also, but like the Germans were just awful. And they tried to fit WAY to much stuff in to the program, they never talked about one issue thoroughly enough.