I don't get this, why do people constantly debate free will vs omniescence even though atheists have constantly been wrong on the issue in every major debate?
It would be useful if someone challenged what I proposed earlier in the thread rather than reiterate simply that it can co-exist (which is mostly what I have been seeing).
Premise 1: Allah is Omniscient
(Allah knows every event, every outcome and every fact)
Premise 2: Choice involves more than a single outcome.
(If real choice exists then there must be the possibility to exist more than one resulting action from a consideration. For example if I decide to tie my shoes, then I should be equally able to decide otherwise. There should be an existing possibilities of me either tying my shoes or not tying my shoes which necessarily must result from my own choices for this to be an action of independent thought.)
Premise 3: Free-Will involves the ability to exercise choice
(If Free-Will is asserted to exist amongst us, then there must be necessarily, the ability to uphold real choice (as highlighted above). I must have the ability to choose between action A and action B through my own ability to make real choice.)
A: Allah is proclaimed to be omniscient (Premise 1). Allah therefore knows the outcome of every action, event and has knowledge of every fact.
B: A human choice is an event. If I decide to go to the shops, then I am initiating a state of affairs.
C: If Allah knows the outcome of every event then he knows the outcome of every single human choice. (Premise 1)
D: If Allah knows the outcome of any future choice by any being, then the outcome described is the only possible outcome because:
D1: If any outcome from a human choice was different than Allah's knowledge then Allah would be wrong. This contradicts Premise 1
D2: If Allah was wrong then Allah would not be omniscient.
E: If any choice has only one outcome then there is no choice at all. (Premise 3)
(Free Choice relies on the ability to do otherwise. Free-Will relies on the ability of choice. Both are made redundant by the existence of omnipotence contained within a single source (in this scenario: contained within God). If God is omniscient then God necessarily knows the result of all actions within humanity. If all actions within humanity are known then there is no such things as Free-Choice since the outcome has already been pre-seen. If this is the case then there is no Free-Will because Free-Will is dependent upon the ability to exercise choice.)
F: If every choice has only one outcome then there is actual no choice at all, only events.
G: If Allah is omniscient, then every choice is no choice at all.
(Omniscience necessitates the ability of knowledge of all outcomes: past, present and future. This also necessarily leads to God knowing all future events that will happen. If all future events are known to happen, then all human choices are also known to happen. If all human choices are known to happen and cannot change then they lose the status of 'choice' and simply become rendered into events. As Premise 3 states, choice relies on the possibility of more than one specific outcome. If only a specific outcome can happen then there is no choice, only consequences of events. Only under omnipotence can this happen as all future 'choices' would already be known by the source which possesses omnipotence.)
If Allah is omniscient, then there is no free-will at all.
Md Mashud said:
Its simple as, IF YOU can't see why they don't contradict, thats your fault/belief not ours.
Assuming that be the case, yes.
And vice versa.
/Ello ello ello
