Dutch Consider Banning Religious Animal Slaughter

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Kosher drains more blood out of the animal than does halal on average, but in reality I don't care.

If you dont care, then whats up with the discussion?

Surely there must be something. You have not brought any evidence as far as i can see from your posts.

I do however, sincerely advice that you do your research on the Islamic slaughtering i.e how an animal is slaughtered according to Islaam.

.. peace ..

 

[GuestFellow]

Of course. But the primary argument for legalization of prostitution (I'm not advocating it, just stating it) is that it is prostitution is less dangerous if legalized and regulated to include regular health checks, licensed brothels rather than prostitutes hanging around street corners and so forth. Legalization of some narcotics (again, I'm not advocating, just stating) can be justified on the grounds that controlled availability helps prevent poisoning from impurities, infections (including HIV) from dirty needles etc, and that it would reduce both organized crime and associated violence (dealers) and petty crime (addicts). In the case of hard drugs, availaibility is only suggested for existing addicts. In both cases, the essential point is that legal or not, both will happen anyway.

Like most moral issues, that's one of opinion. I wouldn't necessarily disagree if the second referred to the method of slaughter. I would if talking about slaughter period.

I think you have missed the point here. Neither of us were referring to physical 'sickness'!

As do I. But, again, the argument would be that regulated legalization in fact protects such girls. Let's not stray further off topic, though. This one is about killing animals, not prostitution or drugs.

Right, I understand.

Nikkur in the Jewish tradition drains more blood from the hind quarters. Personally I don't care if Muslims and Jews slaughter animals in any particular way as long as it can be shown not to be cruel. I like my meat bloody and juicy though.

You need to state where your getting your information from and present it here if you can. For example, did you learn that from a website or a book? If it is a website, post it here so members can see it for themselves...

 

[Trumble]

As I said in my previous post, this ban is nothing but attack on Islam specifically.

As it also effects Jews, it cannot be an attack on Islam specifically.

Had muslims eat foie gras as part of halal dietary, you can be sure that the europeans would have banned it on the basis of torturing the geese (which is exactly what it is).
Had Islam prescribed for wearing fur and killing the furry animals sadistically, you can be sure that fur would have been banned long time ago on the basis of cruelty (which is exactly what it is).
You can see there are many many common european practices which are actually sadistic and torture towards animals, but are allowed.

All of those are subject to ongoing debate. Fur farming is already banned in Austria, the UK and Croatia and regulations in Switzerland are so strict that despite not being technically illegal, there are no fur farms. There are strong movements for the same in other EU countries. Veal crates are already illegal in many countries, and being voluntarily withdrawn elsewhere. Battery/factory farming are also huge issues, consumers have switched en masse to 'free range' eggs and battery poultry farming is shortly to be banned in the UK. In all cases these are considered animal rights issues. Where bans have not occurred it is because of resistance due to certain so-called 'cultural' issues (much like Japanese whaling or Spanish bullfighting), but opponents of such things are so because of the cruelty involved, not the 'culture'. If Spaniards want to prance about dressed as clowns waving cape and sword about that's fine - it's just slowly torturing the bull to death people have issues with. The trend, albeit not as fast as many would like, is invariably towards the end of all such mistreatment of animals.

I know some of you find it hard to believe, but that is how ritual slaughter of animals is perceived as well, NOT as an 'attack' on Islam or Judaism.

But when Islam prescribe the method of treating and killing animals for food in the most humane way that actually minimize animals distress and suffering and best way to guarantee cleanliness of the meat, the europeans call it animal torture, while the alternative that they offer (stunning) is actually adding to more sufferings and provide environment for parasites to stay and grow (which becomes health issue).

That is your claim. It is not a matter of fact, and many experts and laymen alike dispute it. It was certainly not the intention of the 'industrial' process to inflict greater cruelty.

 

[Ramadhan]

All of those are subject to ongoing debate. Fur farming is already banned in Austria, the UK and Croatia and regulations in Switzerland are so strict that despite not being technically illegal, there are no fur farms. There are strong movements for the same in other EU countries. Veal crates are already illegal in many countries, and being voluntarily withdrawn elsewhere. Battery/factory farming are also huge issues, consumers have switched en masse to 'free range' eggs and battery poultry farming is shortly to be banned in the UK. In all cases these are considered animal rights issues. Where bans have not occurred it is because of resistance due to certain so-called 'cultural' issues (much like Japanese whaling or Spanish bullfighting), but opponents of such things are so because of the cruelty involved, not the 'culture'. If Spaniards want to prance about dressed as clowns waving cape and sword about that's fine - it's just slowly torturing the bull to death people have issues with. The trend, albeit not as fast as many would like, is invariably towards the end of all such mistreatment of animals.

You might be pleased to know that Islam through qur'an and sunnah already prescribed for animal rights 1,400 years ago. In ahadeeth, there's story how people go to hell because neglecting/torturing animals and people go to paradise because helping animals in distress. Europe is merely catching up.

Also, fur farming is extremely small fraction of the existing animal cruelty that is part of everyday europe.

I know some of you find it hard to believe, but that is how ritual slaughter of animals is perceived as well, NOT as an 'attack' on Islam or Judaism.

If it is not directed towards muslims and jews, then why is religious-sanction slaughter of animals for food is to be made illegal?
And why is it to be banned when there is no exhaustive studies conducted that shows why it is unacceptable?

That is your claim. It is not a matter of fact, and many experts and laymen alike dispute it. It was certainly not the intention of the 'industrial' process to inflict greater cruelty

Many more experts and laymen also dispute that stunning animals is the acceptable way of killing animals. The facts also show that industrial slaughter put animals at great distress and torture them. Here's some samples of many findings:

the Scientific Veterinary Committee of the EU say that when the cardiac arrest stunning method is used, 'a considerable proportion of animals are either inadequately stunned or require a second stun. This is mainly because of poor electrode placements and bad electrical contacts. Measures shall be taken to avoid these practices. Otherwise, when using method 2, the animals could suffer a potentially painful cardiac arrest.' (17)

The strength of the electrical current has risen in recent years - with the aim of ensuring that birds suffer a cardiac arrest and die when they enter the waterbath. The Meat Hygiene Service report that in 1997/8 the average electric current applied to chickens stunned in an electric waterbath was 157 mA. However not all birds will suffer a cardiac arrest and scientific papers show that there are serious flaws with the waterbath system (see part 7: Poultry Slaughter - The Electric Waterbath).

As I said, unless you are very biased against Islam (or unless meat-eating is made illegal and hence all killings of animals are made unlawful), there's no justified reason why halal-slaughter should be banned.

 

[Verdetequiero]

If you dont care, then whats up with the discussion?

Surely there must be something. You have not brought any evidence as far as i can see from your posts.

I do however, sincerely advice that you do your research on the Islamic slaughtering i.e how an animal is slaughtered according to Islaam.

.. peace ..

well part of the discussion was to look up the study that was done that many have cited as evidence of the least painful method of slaughter and find that it was a preliminary study done in Germany and not an in depth study. That isn't to say that its findings are incorrect, but it isn't the proof that implicitly or explicitly gets cited. The information that stun slaughtering is painful to the animal comes from the same study as well but the caveat that the stunning method used, while legal, wasn't the best possible stunning method.

The other part was a discussion on the actual event in which the right wing Dutch party who normally don't care about animal rights teamed up with animal rights groups to further their own bigoted agenda. Personally I think, as long as it can be shown to be relatively painless to the animal, that any method could be used, and people should have the choice on how they want their meat from bloody to completely dry.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Personally I think, as long as it can be shown to be relatively painless to the animal, that any method could be used, and people should have the choice on how they want their meat from bloody to completely dry.

Indeed!

But what if the choice is given to people whether they want it bloody or dry, it will either be stunned or slaughtered in halal or kosher way.

Islamically, it is not man who created the law of how to slaughter the animal in the halaal way, it is the creator of man. And the halaal ways is one of the ways that an animal is slaughtered without this disgusting cruelty. I understand that you feel people should have their choice, but sometimes, we as humans arent the smartest in our ways or at making choices we do need guidance.


.. peace .