Early Christianity + Paganism = Modern Christianity

[Jayda]

by doing this arent u imitating the pagans?
If this was done to make it easier for pagans to accept and live christianity, then wasnt it deceptive to do so? what about quality of faith? wasnt this important?

Okay right down the line:

1. I guess so, why does that make a difference if we are praying to the One True God rather than their false pagan gods? Worship is to be directed toward God, not anything else, he says he is a jealous God when we direct our worship toward something else.
2. I dont think people missed that they were praying to a totally different God.
3. Very important, was it back then? im not a roman so i dunno...

 

[sameer]

I dont know the whys and hows.

so u submit that it dosent make sense to say 3 is 1 ?

 

[Jayda]

so u submit that it dosent make sense to say 3 is 1 ?

*I take that back.

I would say it depends on what we are talking about. As we both agreed a tree can have branches and still be one tree.

 

[sameer]

Okay right down the line:

1. I guess so, why does that make a difference if we are praying to the One True God rather than their false pagan gods? Worship is to be directed toward God, not anything else, he says he is a jealous God when we direct our worship toward something else.
2. I dont think people missed that they were praying to a totally different God.
3. Very important, was it back then? im not a roman so i dunno...

The difference is wheather jesus would have agreed with this practice? did he fool ppl with his message? did he compromise with them? did he adopt their holidays/practices?

The difference is that the pure way that jesus brought would have been soiled by the impure ways of paganism. So then how would ppl know the difference of the real message and waht the new changed message is.

Could this be the reason y there are many diffferent versions of the bible?

 

[sameer]

*I take that back.

I would say it depends on what we are talking about. As we both agreed a tree can have branches and still be one tree.

i really dont care about a tree...

what i want is 4 u or anyone to explain Y god needs a son if the son is actually him and y they both need a spirit if they are already that spirit?

Isnt that similar to hinduism? dont they believe that there are many manfestations of one god? dont they pray to their idols to get through to God simialr to how a person may pray to a saint ? So is christianity the same as hinduism from that aspect?

 

[Jayda]

The difference is wheather jesus would have agreed with this practice? did he fool ppl with his message? did he compromise with them? did he adopt their holidays/practices?

Jesus told a group of Jews that a Samaritan would go to heaven because they treated another person with kindness in the name of God. Despite the fact Samaritans were "sort of monotheistic" had totally different practices than Jews and didnt pray the same way.

Nobody was being fooled when they changed the state holidays.

Jesus encouraged compromise and respect. Why would he not allow people to worship him the way they used to worship their false gods? Now they are worshipping the one true God.

Worship isnt about what direction your toes are pointed or precisely what angle you are bent over during your raka, it is about giving thanks to and glorifying God. If you have priorities over that then you are missing the point.

In my opinion.

The difference is that the pure way that jesus brought would have been soiled by the impure ways of paganism. So then how would ppl know the difference of the real message and waht the new changed message is.

The message is "worship God," if pagans are worshipping God in the same manner than they worshipped their idols before than apparently they heard the message loud and clear and uncorrupted.

Where are you getting this pure and impure distinctions from? Ive heard nothing in the bible about them.

Could this be the reason y there are many diffferent versions of the bible?

No.

 

[sameer]

so what if they decided to have/continue human scarifices in the name of God? would that be right beacuse they are doing it for God?

what are the reason for so many versions of the bible? if not beacuse of ppl changing it to suit them? which one is the real one?

 

[Jayda]

i really dont care about a tree...

Thats rude. We politely answered a question you asked. You asked how three can be one, and you got a tree. Lets not pretend we just randomly started talking about foliage.

what i want is 4 u or anyone to explain Y god needs a son if the son is actually him and y they both need a spirit if they are already that spirit?

I dont know why God needs anything: prophets, books, people, creation, any of it thats not a question anybody could answer.

Isnt that similar to hinduism? dont they believe that there are many manfestations of one god? dont they pray to their idols to get through to God simialr to how a person may pray to a saint ? So is christianity the same as hinduism from that aspect?

I dont know enough about Hinduism to say that it is similar to Christianity.

I simply know the bible says there is a son, a father, and a holy spirit and they are one God.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

so what if they decided to have/continue human scarifices in the name of God? would that be right beacuse they are doing it for God?

It depends on one's perspective. In my eyes, soldiers who fight and die for Allah are human sacrifices. Jesus was a human sacrifice. I could go on, but you get the idea? The one thing they all had in common was this: They were WILLING to die for Allah.

Ninth Scribe

 

[Jayda]

so what if they decided to have/continue human scarifices in the name of God? would that be right beacuse they are doing it for God?

That would be breaking one of his commandments "thou shalt not kill." Obviously God wouldnt be thrilled with that.

what are the reason for so many versions of the bible? if not beacuse of ppl changing it to suit them? which one is the real one?

Better translations...

 

[sameer]

Thats rude. We politely answered a question you asked. You asked how three can be one, and you got a tree. Lets not pretend we just randomly started talking about foliage.



I dont know why God needs anything: prophets, books, people, creation, any of it thats not a question anybody could answer.



I dont know enough about Hinduism to say that it is similar to Christianity.

I simply know the bible says there is a son, a father, and a holy spirit and they are one God.

sorry about the comment about the tree.
Since u dont know much about hinduism....take it from the perspective and info i gave u about hinduism........ isnt the two the same>?

 

[duskiness]

Sameer, for you - Trinty in brief :giggling:

We worship one God in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being.
For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another.
But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty.
What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit.
Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.
The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.
Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit:
And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal;
as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited.
Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit:
And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.
Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God:
And yet there are not three gods, but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord:
And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord.
As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten;
the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father;
the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son.
Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits.
And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other;
but all three persons are in themselves, coeternal and coequal; and so we must worship the Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons.

athanasian Creed
and please don't ask how 3=1...there were many thread about that..
n.

 

[Jayda]

sorry about the comment about the tree.

no problem

Since u dont know much about hinduism....take it from the perspective and info i gave u about hinduism........ isnt the two the same>?

I cant say for certain.

 

[sameer]

Sameer, for you - Trinty in brief :giggling:
athanasian Creed
and please don't ask how 3=1...there were many thread about that..
n.

Im sorry, but to me the whole of that was contradicting itself. On one hand it is saying that God is eternal and one, but then again its saying that the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty. If they are the same how come this line that they need to be equal in glory? sounds to me that line is valid for two separate entities.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten, the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father? I thought they were one? so if they are one? how can one be begotten and the other not begotten ? again this points to two separate entities.

I could go on, but i think u got the point.

It seems to me just to be a lot of nice words dancing around the point to probaly lose some one who is not paying close attention.

 

[sameer]

no problem



I cant say for certain.

ok basically as u say, the trinity is differenet branches of One God? Similarly the polythetist may say that they have one God who is the BOss and the other Gods are Just branches to get thourgh to that GOd?
Do u see a similarity between them?

When a person prays to Mary..whats the purpose of this?

 

[Jayda]

ok basically as u say, the trinity is differenet branches of One God? Similarly the polythetist may say that they have one God who is the BOss and the other Gods are Just branches to get thourgh to that GOd?
Do u see a similarity between them?

no that is totally different... for polytheists there are seperate gods with a king god... Christians believe in this:

When a person prays to Mary..whats the purpose of this?

we are asking for her intercession to talk to God on our behalf... we also venerate her... but we dont worship her as a god (that is a common stereotype of catholics)

 

[sameer]

no that is totally different... for polytheists there are seperate gods with a king god... Christians believe in this:

we are asking for her intercession to talk to God on our behalf... we also venerate her... but we dont worship her as a god (that is a common stereotype of catholics)

Can or did God exist without the spirit or the Son? where was the son when Abraham was preaching One God?
Did God send prophets to teach that there was one God? Why send Jesus to change this concept to trinity?DId Jesus actually teach trinity?

With regards to ure diagram, taking me for an example,I am Me in the center, I am Sameer, I am a Son and I am a husband. I am the Son and the Husband the same time to different ppl, I am also Sameer and still the Husband to the same person....and I am ME all the time in the center... So am i 3 in one ? the three makes up Me...but when i become a father (insha Allah)..i will become 4 in 1 ?

With regards to Mary.
Is she alive? can she hear u? whats her status right now?
Was she diffferent to the prophets? Y not pray to prophets?
Did jesus pray?
Did jesus pray to Mary?
Did jesus pray to himself?

 

[Jayda]

Can or did God exist without the spirit or the Son?

No, there was never a time where the Father was was without the Son.

where was the son when Abraham was preaching One God?

With the Father

Did God send prophets to teach that there was one God?

Yes, and to deliver the law and tell people about the comming of Jesus

Why send Jesus to change this concept to trinity?

They taught the Oneness of God... so does Trinity, nothing was changed...

DId Jesus actually teach trinity?

Yes, he just didnt call it Trinity

With regards to ure diagram, taking me for an example,I am Me in the center, I am Sameer, I am a Son and I am a husband. I am the Son and the Husband the same time to different ppl, I am also Sameer and still the Husband to the same person....and I am ME all the time in the center... So am i 3 in one ? the three makes up Me...but when i become a father (insha Allah)..i will become 4 in 1 ?

You are Sameer... the diagram is talking about God, i cant make that kind of comparison...

With regards to Mary.
Is she alive? can she hear u? whats her status right now?

Mary ascended to heaven, where she is with God and she can hear and see us... since she never died i dont think we can say she is dead but since she is in heaven i dont think we can say she is physically here... so i dont really know what she is other than in heaven with God...

Was she diffferent to the prophets?

Yes, very different she is considered above all the saints...

Y not pray to prophets?

Prophets are also saints... we venerate them and ask for intercession when it is appropriate.

Did jesus pray?

Yes

Did jesus pray to Mary?

No

Did jesus pray to himself?

Yes in that he prayed to his father and they are one...

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Is it just me or is this statment blatant contradiction?:

They taught the Oneness of God... so does Trinity, nothing was changed...

 

[Jayda]

Is it just me or is this statment blatant contradiction?:

Not at all...

The Trinity tells you that although we have experienced God in three ways it is One God, and we should not be confused into thinking there are three seperate Gods trying to talk to us.

That is what the Trinity is... the unity of God. Our God is one...