Ephesians 1:3

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JakeTruthSeeker

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according to muslims, who believe in the bible and believe jesus was merely a prophet and not the son of god

how do muslims explains this verse: Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

i'm catholic and i believe that implies that jesus is the son of god.

muslims, please share your thought.
 
Welcome to the forum JakeTruthSeeker.

Straight to the question.... no introduction? :hmm:

This forum has many, many threads that talks on the subject related to your question. Do browse through them and see. But simply put, from Adam, Allah has always sent prophets to remind people and for them to always be thankful. Additionally, there would be guidance for our conduct.

Adam was created out of earth (various mix) and Eve was made from a part of him. A man created without parents, a woman created from a man. Jesus created without a father. For the rest of us, we are created from a pair.

aqwasys-1.jpg
The case of Jesus with God is like the case of Adam. He created him from dust, and then He said to him, “Be!” and he came into being.
aqwasym-1.jpg
(Quran, 3:59)

This is what the Quran says.

Wishing you a great stay.


Peace :shade:
 
Hello, and welcome to the forum

Okay, how about surah (chapter) Al-Ikhlas from Qur'an?.

Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

It's clear that God doesn't have son, from Muslim perspective.

Muslims believe that Bible was from God. But Muslims also believe that Bible is not really original anymore because it has been changed by the Christians themselves.

You believe that Jesus (pbuh) is son of God. I believe that Jesus (pbuh) was just prophet. Then?. I'll show you one verse from Qur'an

"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion"
(Al-Kafirun: 6)

What believed by your religion is your belief, what believed by my religion is my belief. We must respect this difference, okay?

By the way. Although my family are Muslims, some people in my mother family are Protestants. I have enough much non-Muslim friends, and I studied in Catholic elementary school that run by Franciscan Orde until grade 4, before I moved to my current city now. My teachers were nuns, and I was close with them.

:)
 
Why i believe jesus is the son of god, Because he wanted us to have Faith that he was even though the evidence isnt visible, if he isnt the son of god, then what does this mean...

Matthew 16:18
And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

and thats how Peter became head of the church, he was bishop, the term pope wasnt coined until later
 
You want us to discuss what the bible says???? The way you wish us to discuss the verses from the bible as if they are factual.

Why say "merely" a Prophet??

Also God is one, the Creator of the Universe who does not have any children nor any parents.

Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is not all seeing, all hearing that he will be able to judge on the Day of Judgement.

Allah does not share his Kingship with anyone, the Archangel Gabriel bows down to Allah and so do all the angels, they do not bow down to Prophet Jesus peace be upon him.

Prophet Jesus peace be upon him when he comes back will not be telling the Muslims they are committing a sin by worshipping the Creator of the Universe.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
Why i believe jesus is the son of god, Because he wanted us to have Faith that he was even though the evidence isnt visible, if he isnt the son of god, then what does this mean...

Matthew 16:18
And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

and thats how Peter became head of the church, he was bishop, the term pope wasnt coined until later
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for starters, who wrote matthew? it was written around the year 85CE, and NOT by the man referred to as the apostle matthew. in fact, NO ONE knows who wrote it.

now, the example you use, is a non sequitor. what does matt 16:18 have anything to do with proving any aspect of a trinity? its just a random quote. besides, Christians follow the religion of Saul of Tarsus and NOT that of Jesus or Peter, if there ever was any follower of Jesus named Simon Peter.

where is your contemporaneous, historical evidence that anyone named Simon, was a bishop? for as you say, the term bishop wasn't coined until later.

where the "Bible" agrees with the Qur'an, you can find truth. where it disagrees, there is falsehood.

Muslims agree that Jesus, the son of Mary, is the Jewish Messiah. we also agree that he will return. we KNOW that he isn't God or God's son. we KNOW that, because there is only 1 God, Allah. and Jesus was a Messenger of Allah.

regarding Ephesians, no one knows who wrote that, either. there are only 7 letters of Paul that experts agree that Paul wrote. Ephesians is NOT one of them.

to sum up, anonymous authors, writing various fancies has nothing to do with God, just musings of anonymous writers. as Paul clearly states in Galatians, a book universally agree that he wrote, Paul specifically tells us that he is not preaching the message of ANY of the "apostles".

so..where does that leave us?

peace
 
okay then, why wasnt muhammad granted with all the amazing things jesus couldve done, like Walk on water, rise again on the THIRD day, healing the blind, curing sickly people with leprosy, curing bleeding people, paralyzed people, and taking demonic influences out of people (Rite of Exorcism), and Bringing dead from the grave, muhammad didnt do any of that.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
okay then, why wasnt muhammad granted with all the amazing things jesus couldve done, like Walk on water, rise again on the THIRD day, healing the blind, curing sickly people with leprosy, curing bleeding people, paralyzed people, and taking demonic influences out of people (Rite of Exorcism), and Bringing dead from the grave, muhammad didnt do any of that.
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Salaam / Peace Be Upon You Brother Jake.

Firstly, welcome to our forums. :welcome:We love when non-Muslims come with questions, because we can help them with answers Inshallah.

As for your question, the Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was sent by God to help spread his message to the people through the angel Gabriel. He used his actions and words to start the religion of Islam. I would say that the Quran, Hadith, and the number of Muslims all around the world today is an "amazing thing." Don't you think so as well?

Here are some links you should check out:

http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...jesus-wrong-jesus-mystic.html?highlight=Jesus

http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...snt-jesus-gen-31-10-13-a.html?highlight=Jesus

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/22635-jesus-god.html?highlight=Jesus

About The Life of The Prophet:

http://www.islamicboard.com/seerah/...-mohammad-husband-*-*.html?highlight=Mohammad


 
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then clearly what does say.... You are the Christ, the Son of the living God mean.
 
Following verses from the Quran;-

72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.


73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.


74. Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.


75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!


76. Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."

77. Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.




114. Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."


115. Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."


116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

117. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

Prophet Jesus peace be upon him did not come back into this world after the act of crucification. Your refused to listen to God All-Mighty, and then you think he would ask you to listen to the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him after the act of crucification??

See comparative section on what we say on Christianity.

1. There is no need to talk to us as if we don't know that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him was allowed to do things with Allah's permission, ie create the bird out of clay and it became alive, have the table spreadth of food from heaven.

The fact is that the people at the time feared the authorities even though Prophet Jesus peace be upon him clearly was allowed to do certain things. It is a fact that if the Muslims were alive at that time, we wouldn't have allowed him the act of crucification to happen.

Prophet Moses peace be upon him was also allowed to do certain things ie with his staff, and his hand becoming white.

God All Mighty does NOT have any children,

If there was another God, how can he keep his thoughts, actions hidden from God All-Mighty -when he is All Seeing, All Hearing and All Knowing.

We follow after Prophet Jesus peace be upon him and the Christians do not for their idol worship, he will have the Muslims for his support when he arrives back, and not Christians who could not support him. They say they were told to do nothing when the act of crucification happened (though the did not die and was raised to Heaven-the Christians say that no flesh goes to Heaven, well Prophet Adam peace be upon him's body was created in Heaven, and Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is in Heaven with his physical body. He will come back down to Earth with the help of two angels.

This is also why the Christians have no right to fight for anything in this world, if you couldn't fight for the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him, then why bother having the crusades etc??? The whole purpose of miracles, and signs is that people listen to God All Mighty, who has created Prophet Jesus peace be upon him who ate, slept and went to the toilet.

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, who does not share his rule with anyone.

If you are sincere about learning, then I would certainly expect you to go to comparative section, read, refute EACH point, instead of not answering valid points, and persistently saying nonsense that God has taken himself a son.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
according to muslims, who believe in the bible and believe jesus was merely a prophet and not the son of god

how do muslims explains this verse: Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

i'm catholic and i believe that implies that jesus is the son of god.

muslims, please share your thought.
Click to expand...

We believe there were three books revealed before the Qur'an. The Tauret (Torah). Zabor (Psalms) and the Injil (Gospel of Jesus) in there original form those were the word of God(swt) Ephesians is a book by a man (Paul) and is not to be believed as being the word of God(swt) It is the opinion of Paul and should be considered in that light.

Even with that said reading "Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ." God(swt) did not say he was the Father of Jesus(as) It is a blasphemous statement by Paul.

This Blasphemy is corrected in the Qur'an.


19:30 (Y. Ali) He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;

19:31 (Y. Ali) "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;

19:32 (Y. Ali) "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;

19:33 (Y. Ali) "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

19:34 (Y. Ali) Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
okay then, why wasnt muhammad granted with all the amazing things jesus couldve done, like Walk on water, rise again on the THIRD day, healing the blind, curing sickly people with leprosy, curing bleeding people, paralyzed people, and taking demonic influences out of people (Rite of Exorcism), and Bringing dead from the grave, muhammad didnt do any of that.
Click to expand...

why wasn't Jesus granted a book that would not be corrupted? that is a greater miracle! Jesus did not die, thus he could not have "risen on the third day".

you only "think" you know what Jesus did. there are no surviving, contemporaneous, eyewitness accounts of ANYTHING Jesus said or did. if you think Jesus was so great, why do you follow Paul, instead? was Paul greater than Jesus?

the Prophet Muhammad came with the final revelation from God. it still exists. we KNOW what it is. there are NO, ZERO, NADA, NOT ONE SINGLE document, from the time of Jesus that exists today. we only have "Gospels" from 1 or 2 generations later, written by unknown authors. there are many contradictions in them and NONE of them are written in the language that Jesus spoke. NOT ONE!

example, was Jesus, according to the gospels, killed before or after passover? please answer.

you see, if you do not have 1 single, authentic document about the life of a Prophet of Allah, where can you get authentic information about that Prophet of Allah? why, from another Prophet of Allah! that is the only way you can guarantee its authenticity.

you state you are catholic. let me ask you a question: in 1409, there were 3 popes. which pope, was really the pope?

peace
 
Jesus's death was observed by about 500 people,
After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.- 1: Corinthians 15:6, Paul knew jesus more than any of other apostle, 1 Corinthians 15:20
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

the 3 popes was during the great schism at that time, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John State that it was on the 15th day Of Nisan,

Matthew 27:57 'When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58] This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus....62] Now on the next day, which is the one after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate 63] and said, ''Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.'
Mark 15:42 'When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43] Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luke 23:54 'It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. 55] Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. 56] Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he (Pilate) said to the Jews, ''Behold your king!''
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
Jesus's death was observed by about 500 people,
After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.- 1: Corinthians 15:6, Paul knew jesus more than any of other apostle, 1 Corinthians 15:20
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

the 3 popes was during the great schism at that time, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John State that it was on the 15th day Of Nisan,

Matthew 27:57 'When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58] This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus....62] Now on the next day, which is the one after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate 63] and said, ''Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.'
Mark 15:42 'When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43] Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luke 23:54 'It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. 55] Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. 56] Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he (Pilate) said to the Jews, ''Behold your king!''
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where is your historical, contemporaneous evidence that there were 500 witnesses to Jesus' death?

if your "evidence" is Paul, where was he present at said death?

i know there were 3 popes during the schism. i'm asking you which was really the pope? were all 3 the "vicar of christ?"

let me re-ask the question, was Jesus "killed" before or after the Passover? you are confusing the preparation day for the sabbath and the preparation day for the passover. was the crucifiction before or after the Passover? please give an answer, one way or the other, then show your supporting statements. you see, in John, it says:

John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour
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the preparation day for Passover is Nisan 13. so John says it was the 13th, so how can it be the 15th, in the other gospels? was it Nisan 13 or Nisan 15?

peace
 
he wasnt at the crucifixation, he knew little about him, Ill admit, im not exactly sure, i meant the 13th, my mistakes, it was before passover


And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified.
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
he wasnt at the crucifixation, he knew little about him, Ill admit, im not exactly sure, i meant the 13th, my mistakes, it was before passover


And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified.
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then Paul's statements are pure hearsay, aren't they.

ok, so now you claim that Jesus was killed on the preparation day of the passover. if that is true, how then, did Jesus eat the passover meal with the disciples, according to:

Luke 22:14-16New International Version (NIV)

14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”
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how did Jesus eat the Passover with the disciples, if he was killed, before the Passover?
 
fine, then i was right about the 15th day at first

Acts 22:6-11: “Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. "And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?' "So I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.' "And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. "So I said, 'What shall I do, Lord?' And the Lord said to me, 'Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.' "And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus.”

paul saw jesus resurection.

he then told it to king agrippa Acts 26:12-16: “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, "at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. "And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' "So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 'But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.”
 
"according to muslims, who believe in the bible and believe jesus was merely a prophet and not the son of god....."


Going back to the original post, you may have made an assumption by saying Muslim, who believe in the bible..

The Quran says Injeel (which over time changed to the Bible). Muslims believe that the teachings of Jesus were true but the Bible no longer has accuracy. Hence the Quran, the definite Book, to tell the truth and give guidance.

With this in mind, what is said in the 'older' Testaments plays no major part in the Muslim belief save that the message was brought down by the messengers/ prophets.

It matters not what might be said elsewhere, the Muslims will believe what is in the Quran foremost, closely followed by the authentic hadeeth.

So when you say Muslims believe in the Bible, please rephrase that to Muslims believe in the Injeel, but the Bible is not the Injeel which was brought by Jesus. So if there are any message that says things on the contrary to the Quran, which statement do you think the Muslims would believe?

Peace :shade:
 
JakeTruthSeeker said:
fine, then i was right about the 15th day at first

Acts 22:6-11: “Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. "And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?' "So I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.' "And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. "So I said, 'What shall I do, Lord?' And the Lord said to me, 'Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.' "And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus.”

paul saw jesus resurection.

he then told it to king agrippa Acts 26:12-16: “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, "at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. "And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' "So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 'But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.”
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if you are right about the 15th of Nisan, then why does "John" say he died on the 13th of Nisan, which is the preparation day for Passover?

using your quote:

John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he (Pilate) said to the Jews, ''Behold your king!''
Click to expand...

so...13th or 15th?
 
the bible is the Injeel, yes i know that, i thought muslims, the OT was 1st testament, NT= 2nd testament and Quran was 3rd testament

jesus said in Matthew 5:17-5:18, Think not that i came to abolish the law, or the prophets, not to abolish but to fulfill, for verily i say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away the earth, until all be fulfilled,

he came to fuflill because the pharisees were mucking it up, and twisting it

christ did also say in Isaiah 43:11 and besides me there is no savior
 
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