Evolution -why its not accepted

[h-n]

As Allah stated in the Quran he creates and fashions all things into being, there are people who say we evolved as we share the same genes -when Allah created us from the substance of this world, so just because the similar substances are used that doesn't mean that we are related. As they say we are made up of water just like other creatures too, of course its normal to have substances used from his world were we are able to consume them to ie eating fruits which help our bodies as they provide the properties that we need.

It is Allah that fashions creation it is not possible for the cells to start organising themselves as such to create a person without Allah's help ie you cells be part of the heart, you be part of the lungs, you be part of the brain etc.

Also how are they saying that the first Male appeared?? How can evolution create a seperate Male and female ie you have the male reproductive organs and you have the female ones were she will be able to bear a child and even breastfeed. It doesn't make any sense, so therefore as people quote is intelligent design.

When there are abnormalities with the human body, this happens with Allah's leave, this is were the devils interfere with the bodies of humans -what do they think that they just do- follow humans without touching them?? Of course they touch people and can effect people's health. They wish to say that it isn't right for a Merciful God to allow disabled people to be born-it is a test for them and people, do they deem themselves more kind when they say that this is the only existance that these disabled people will ever have?? Just live in this world and not be able to go to Paradise??

How can evolution create camels, the designs of elephants, of bees? They are designed by our Creator, and as Allah has stated in the Quran were when KIng Solomon peace be upon him understood the language of the animals (which people will do in Paradise), he heard the ant tell the rest to get out of the way of King Solomon peace be upon him-an ANT recognising the coming of the Prophet from afar. All the creatures of sound mind know of the existance of the one God, for any creature not to do so would be pointless of living just as it is for humans.

Allah has created all the creatures of this world and it is not possible any other way.

 

[facethetruth]

Watch Expelled no Intellegence allowed. I was dropped from my Contemporary class when I used to live in the California for proving the doctor wrong, freedom of speech did not help me. He said delete your posts or leave as clear as that.

 

[h-n]

Watch Expelled no Intellegence allowed. I was dropped from my Contemporary class when I used to live in the California for proving the doctor wrong, freedom of speech did not help me. He said delete your posts or leave as clear as that.

Thanks for the info,, will check it out

 

[Ahmad H]

Assalaam alaikum warahmathulahi wabarakathahu,

Bismillahi-Rahmanir-Raheem,

Just because you don't understand evolution doesn't mean it is not true. The Qur'an doesn't state things which are contrary to what is already there in nature. The 'how' of it all cannot be conjectured by your own personal thinking. The argument you gave is saying, "I don't understand evolution, it doesn't connect with what I know of the Qur'an, therefore it is false because the Qur'an is true."

The Qur'an supports the evolutionary theory. Allah said that all life began in water, the Holy Prophet (saw) said this too. Evolution says that life began in the oceans, which are all water. The Qur'an says we are made out of clay (different types are mentioned as well), as are said to evolve from carbon atoms which are in clay especially. just watch this video and you will see how the Qur'an has mentioned this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZSiZRkgPSo&list=PLIY5DwaQvSijAQac8ll9Wb7pj7zdaAaP4

Allah did create us with His Hands and shaped us. But if you are implying for one second that you think Allah shaped us with hands the exact same way that a potter makes clay, then you are taking Allah's attributed anthropomorphically. This is wrong, because when Allah says He uses His Hands, they are not like human hands. The Hands He has are something which has the attribute of hands, but it is not at all like human hands. "There is none like unto Him" (42:11) must be kept in mind whenever dealing with Allah and His attributes. His "Hands" are just another attribute, like He has Eyes as well. We cannot know 'how' Allah created the universe. He gave signs of His creation to mankind to reflect and think over. This means that the theories of evolution, which are backed by a large horde of scientific evidence, means that they must be taken into consideration. If we look at the theory of evolution, there is nothing wrong with it except the conclusion that Allah has lacked interference in the matters of evolution.

Allah created us, shaped us and perfected us. If He made us like how humans shape things, then that would remove the mystery behind the meanings of the verse. I think you have misunderstood the Qur'an and are going down a dangerous path by thinking you know the exact meanings, while Allah is fully aware of these meanings. Allah created everything and He has never for one moment allowed things to be out of His control. I am sure you accept that the universe is 14.5 billion years old and that 'yaum' refers to periods of time in which the universe evolved. If you accept that, then naturally humans evolved too like the universe went through stages. When Allah says He created man, He does not mean 'presto!' and a man was there in an instant.

Ar-Razi explained that when Allah says 'Be!' and it is, this does not mean that thing happens right away. Allah has already willed something to happen, and the causes are put in place for that thing to occur. Everything is created in wisdom. We aren't told to reflect on nature for no reason. Just because you don't understand evolution does not make it false. The Qur'an is a comprehensive book which explains everything. The miracle of the Qur'an is that it gave the details of evolution before anyone knew what it meant. The early scholars could not recognize the time periods of creation nor the intricacies of it. All they knew was that Allah did it all. That is what they explained as well as the details of what happened. What they explained is not contrary to evolution, but it is the truth about evolution.

Scientists don't know how things were made and they did not observe it, yet Allah observed it all and told us what happened! So the Qur'an tells us the details which scientists could never know about! Such as the fact that Allah did it all. We were told something hundreds of years before it was understood and observed in the natural world. It is a hidden order to things which Allah unfolded to Muslims, but the disbelievers figured it out. The disbelievers may not have benefited from this worldly knowledge, but us Muslims know the meanings behind all of this and these discoveries are fresh signs from Allah that strengthen our hearts with the firmness of faith. This age is full of disbelief, but within that disbelief those people who discovered nature's hidden order discovered something which Muslims can appreciate. My faith grew when I saw how evolution was explained in High School, and then I go to read the Qur'an and find that it already mentioned all of that!

Do not throw away knowledge because you think differently. Observe the universe Allah has created, accept it and see how He has described it in His Book. You will see the hidden meanings of His Book and find no contradiction between His Words and His creation. I end this off with one verse of the Qur'an which should invoke this wonder in you:

3:191 Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire.

Wassalaam.

 

[h-n]

Assalaam alaikum warahmathulahi wabarakathahu,

Bismillahi-Rahmanir-Raheem,

Just because you don't understand evolution doesn't mean it is not true. The Qur'an doesn't state things which are contrary to what is already there in nature. The 'how' of it all cannot be conjectured by your own personal thinking. The argument you gave is saying, "I don't understand evolution, it doesn't connect with what I know of the Qur'an, therefore it is false because the Qur'an is true."

The Qur'an supports the evolutionary theory. Allah said that all life began in water, the Holy Prophet (saw) said this too. Evolution says that life began in the oceans, which are all water. The Qur'an says we are made out of clay (different types are mentioned as well), as are said to evolve from carbon atoms which are in clay especially. just watch this video and you will see how the Qur'an has mentioned this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZSiZRkgPSo&list=PLIY5DwaQvSijAQac8ll9Wb7pj7zdaAaP4

Allah did create us with His Hands and shaped us. But if you are implying for one second that you think Allah shaped us with hands the exact same way that a potter makes clay, then you are taking Allah's attributed anthropomorphically. This is wrong, because when Allah says He uses His Hands, they are not like human hands. The Hands He has are something which has the attribute of hands, but it is not at all like human hands. "There is none like unto Him" (42:11) must be kept in mind whenever dealing with Allah and His attributes. His "Hands" are just another attribute, like He has Eyes as well. We cannot know 'how' Allah created the universe. He gave signs of His creation to mankind to reflect and think over. This means that the theories of evolution, which are backed by a large horde of scientific evidence, means that they must be taken into consideration. If we look at the theory of evolution, there is nothing wrong with it except the conclusion that Allah has lacked interference in the matters of evolution.

Allah created us, shaped us and perfected us. If He made us like how humans shape things, then that would remove the mystery behind the meanings of the verse. I think you have misunderstood the Qur'an and are going down a dangerous path by thinking you know the exact meanings, while Allah is fully aware of these meanings. Allah created everything and He has never for one moment allowed things to be out of His control. I am sure you accept that the universe is 14.5 billion years old and that 'yaum' refers to periods of time in which the universe evolved. If you accept that, then naturally humans evolved too like the universe went through stages. When Allah says He created man, He does not mean 'presto!' and a man was there in an instant.

Ar-Razi explained that when Allah says 'Be!' and it is, this does not mean that thing happens right away. Allah has already willed something to happen, and the causes are put in place for that thing to occur. Everything is created in wisdom. We aren't told to reflect on nature for no reason. Just because you don't understand evolution does not make it false. The Qur'an is a comprehensive book which explains everything. The miracle of the Qur'an is that it gave the details of evolution before anyone knew what it meant. The early scholars could not recognize the time periods of creation nor the intricacies of it. All they knew was that Allah did it all. That is what they explained as well as the details of what happened. What they explained is not contrary to evolution, but it is the truth about evolution.

Scientists don't know how things were made and they did not observe it, yet Allah observed it all and told us what happened! So the Qur'an tells us the details which scientists could never know about! Such as the fact that Allah did it all. We were told something hundreds of years before it was understood and observed in the natural world. It is a hidden order to things which Allah unfolded to Muslims, but the disbelievers figured it out. The disbelievers may not have benefited from this worldly knowledge, but us Muslims know the meanings behind all of this and these discoveries are fresh signs from Allah that strengthen our hearts with the firmness of faith. This age is full of disbelief, but within that disbelief those people who discovered nature's hidden order discovered something which Muslims can appreciate. My faith grew when I saw how evolution was explained in High School, and then I go to read the Qur'an and find that it already mentioned all of that!

Do not throw away knowledge because you think differently. Observe the universe Allah has created, accept it and see how He has described it in His Book. You will see the hidden meanings of His Book and find no contradiction between His Words and His creation. I end this off with one verse of the Qur'an which should invoke this wonder in you:

3:191 Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire.

Wassalaam.

???? First your telling me that I don't understand evolution, then you saying that scientists don't either, then saying we don't understand but doesn't mean we should reject evolution when Allah has already provided us the truth ( a clear message, not something confusing). Also Allah did fashion Mankind, Prophet Adam peace be upon him didn't pop out of the water, the dust was collected from this world and was taken to heaven were he was created by Allah and were Allah gave him his soul and then Allah created Eve seperately.

We can't change what the WORD evolution means as its what wrong doers use to imply that things have changed without any influence from God-when Allah FASHIONS THINGS which I have not dismissed at all. In Islam we are clear we don't tell the evil doers that we accept evolution then they would think that we accept what they mean by it, it is a word created by them-as then how can you teach about Islam being seperate from wrongdoers?? Islam, a religion perfected, things in this world use water, of course not all things are created with water ie the Jinn, angels.

Allah fashions all beings, ie allowing people to have different colour hair and eyes,
Allah has fashioned the many different types of birds.

And yes when God Says BE it can be created just like that if he wanted to. Why question that when even a jinn was able to swiftly bring a throne to the Prophet Solomon peace be upon him. When Allah created the bird that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him created out of clay, and mended the one that Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him killed and placed in seperate places. If Allah decides not to have something created straightaway it's his choice. But don't start telling anyone that Allah's throne also evolved, and Allah had to wait for it to be finished.

No I don't agree that the Universe if 14.5 billion years old, don't tell me that anyone else knows either. Were not going to have all the information of this planet and creation, but what we accept is what Allah has taught us-what benefits us which is why we don't need the numbers of the people taking refuge in the cave. Therefore there is no mystery to the Quran as the Quran is a message to the people for them to repent and worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell. The words of Alif, Lam and Mim etc, is from Allah to ask, but again to imply that the Quran is a mystery is wrong as Allah clearly already stated that this is a clear message from Allah to Mankind to heed his message. We not going to turn the Quran as the Christians have done to crack a code-this message has been given to people who are even illiterate, it was enough a simple, clear message that there is one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell. It is rather that you are in error by seeking more (knowledge that you don't possess in this world) then understanding what Allah has taught you in the first place.

Just because you don't know what to say back to scientists/atheists doesn't mean that you have to change what Islam is saying to fit what they are doing.

So I still say that I agree with intelligent design NOT with evolution, as we accept Allah fashioning his creation.

If you agree with evolution, perhaps you like to say that your great, great, great, great...... grandmother was an ape. ;D

opcorn:

 

[Ahmad H]

???? First your telling me that I don't understand evolution, then you saying that scientists don't either, then saying we don't understand but doesn't mean we should reject evolution when Allah has already provided us the truth ( a clear message, not something confusing). Also Allah did fashion Mankind, Prophet Adam peace be upon him didn't pop out of the water, the dust was collected from this world and was taken to heaven were he was created by Allah and were Allah gave him his soul and then Allah created Eve seperately.

See. You are making interpretations yourself here. Obviously Allah fashioned mankind, but you are assuming it was done one way, while it could have been completely different from that. This age-old interpretation that things happened instantaneously has no backing.

We can't change what the WORD evolution means as its what wrong doers use to imply that things have changed without any influence from God-when Allah FASHIONS THINGS which I have not dismissed at all. In Islam we are clear we don't tell the evil doers that we accept evolution then they would think that we accept what they mean by it, it is a word created by them-as then how can you teach about Islam being seperate from wrongdoers?? Islam, a religion perfected, things in this world use water, of course not all things are created with water ie the Jinn, angels.

I understand you want to use the term "intelligent design" to mean that Allah created the universe and that He had full control over it. I agree with that was well. But don't forget that we "evolved". What we know from scientific evidence is not meant to contradict what we know from the Qur'an. You have to accept that what we understood before by the interpretations of verses of the Qur'an may require re-interpretation. What we know from before is correct, it just needs to be tweaked. We are still made from the dust, and we are fashioned by Allah. But HOW we are fashioned is a whole other story. YOU cannot force an interpretation on the Qur'an because the old commentaries say that. The old commentaries were based on the knowledge that Muslims had before. Perhaps the scientific knowledge we have now equips us to understand what those older interpretations were saying and clarifies what Allah said about our creation.

Allah fashions all beings, ie allowing people to have different colour hair and eyes,
Allah has fashioned the many different types of birds.

Couldn't agree more. My firm belief is in all of this. Allah is Al-Khaaliq.

And yes when God Says BE it can be created just like that if he wanted to. Why question that when even a jinn was able to swiftly bring a throne to the Prophet Solomon peace be upon him. When Allah created the bird that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him created out of clay, and mended the one that Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him killed and placed in seperate places. If Allah decides not to have something created straightaway it's his choice. But don't start telling anyone that Allah's throne also evolved, and Allah had to wait for it to be finished.

Again, you are forcing your own interpretation on this issue. I mentioned Ar-Razi explained how to understand "Be!" and it is. I don't care about your opinion. If I mention a scholar's opinion on something, then I expect you to at least mention another interpretation of Allah's Words based on some scholarly opinion as well.

And mentioning Allah's throne evolved? Astaghfirullah. I am only speaking about humans evolving here. Allah's Throne is not an object nor is it something which can be given any physical location. It is something beyond our comprehension. I will leave it at that on His Throne.

No I don't agree that the Universe if 14.5 billion years old, don't tell me that anyone else knows either. Were not going to have all the information of this planet and creation, but what we accept is what Allah has taught us-what benefits us which is why we don't need the numbers of the people taking refuge in the cave. Therefore there is no mystery to the Quran as the Quran is a message to the people for them to repent and worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell. The words of Alif, Lam and Mim etc, is from Allah to ask, but again to imply that the Quran is a mystery is wrong as Allah clearly already stated that this is a clear message from Allah to Mankind to heed his message. We not going to turn the Quran as the Christians have done to crack a code-this message has been given to people who are even illiterate, it was enough a simple, clear message that there is one God, the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell. It is rather that you are in error by seeking more (knowledge that you don't possess in this world) then understanding what Allah has taught you in the first place.

I already quoted verse 3:191, but it seems you completely missed that quotation. Allah said in that verse that in the heavens and the earth there are signs for those who believe. Does this mean we should not inquire as to what is in the Heavens and the Earth and turn a blind eye to it? No. I think you are anti-learning the way you presume we should not learn anything about the universe. I am starting to think you are backwards by claiming we should never know anything about the age of the universe simply because we don't know the number of the people of the cave. That is the most ludicrous way of arguing about numbers. The Qur'ans stories are not meant to be history, they are meant to teach lessons for which the details are not important. Like with Dhu'l Qarnain, what happened in the Qur'an is important, not the actual historical figure himself. This does not mean we should never study history and that we could never know anything about any past figures.

Honestly, you need to look at things differently. You really don't know anything about evolution. Fine, you are on board with intelligent design. That is just a term. Yes, we may not accept what Atheists think, but this does not mean we should disregard scientific fact. Allah CREATED everything, and He made everything with WISDOM. Therefore, to understand His creation REQUIRES WISDOM, NOT the lack of wisdom.

Just because you don't know what to say back to scientists/atheists doesn't mean that you have to change what Islam is saying to fit what they are doing.

Even if this was the case (which it isn't, I have discussed God with Atheists, they are dismissive, and that's all there is to it), it doesn't change the fact that if you were to tell an Atheist that "Intelligent design is correct and evolution is wrong", they would just laugh at you. They would never take someone like you seriously, who thinks Adam was created the same way a clay statue is made and that we do not know the age of the universe (despite the estimates). They will think you've gone bonkers. I dare you to go up to an Atheist and try to argue on Intelligent Design the way you just argued it to me. NO Atheist will take you seriously. That is the honest truth. Test out my hypothesis if you think I am wrong.

If you agree with evolution, perhaps you like to say that your great, great, great, great...... grandmother was an ape.

Again, another reason why you need to go and study evolution again. We have common ancestors with the apes, but we were never apes ourselves. This is why I told you to go and research on the theory of evolution. I am not telling you to accept that God did not create the universe. I am strongly against any Atheist principles and I think they're self-aggrandized beliefs are loathsome and arrogant. There is no harm in learning something which you will find beneficial to your faith.

The Qur'an is easy to understand, yes, but it DOES have mysterious meanings to it which are somewhat incomprehensible. Such as those on Heaven and Hell. We know Heaven is beautiful and punishments in Hell are severe, but we do not know the actual extent to which Heaven is beautiful and Hell is severe. That is reserved for the Hereafter. Yes, the Holy Prophet (saw) received the best Tafsir of the Qur'an from Jibril (as), but we do not have that whole Tafsir. Even if we did, what we know now would make that Tafsir even more clear in meaning because some things in it were incomprehensible to the Arabs. For example, they did not know what the Dukhan meant when Allah described His making the Heavens and the Earth. We know now that the Dukhan is the nebula which the Solar System and much of the universe was made out of. Those are clouds of gas and smoke, thus, "Dukhan". However, 1400 years ago we did not understand what the "Dukhan" was. This is the miracle of the new meanings of the Qur'an which science discovers. It brings the Qur'an into a whole new light. We did not know the universe was made from a single point, but that is the Ratqan which is mentioned in Surah Al-Anbiya.

You are really missing out on a lot here. you are brushing off some amazing discoveries which put the Qur'an in a whole new light. Please do read up more on these and reflect on the Qur'an again after learning about them. Allah's creation is wondrous. His Greatness is reflected in His works.

 

[facethetruth]

Brother you can watch expelled no intelligence allowed too. When I proved my professor wrong that was not because I am a biologist genus, I had a doctor from Harvard and a Biologist from Hopkins helping me the conclusion is Evolution occur but in the same species not from species to another, other wise the simplest creatures such ants and these things would not exist because they shouldve evolved through these thousands of centuries.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Aselam aleykum
You don't even have to bring religion into the debate to show evolution is problematic. The problem is that evolution is a group word for many sub-theories, each with it's own strengths/weaknesses. Some of them, like common descent, have no testability, no falsifiability, and are not based on empirical data. For that reason alone this sub-theory, or any theory built on it shouldn't even be considered as a scientific theory, but is instead nothing more then a philosophical hypothesis...

 

[h-n]

See. You are making interpretations yourself here. Obviously Allah fashioned mankind, but you are assuming it was done one way, while it could have been completely different from that. This age-old interpretation that things happened instantaneously has no backing.

I understand you want to use the term "intelligent design" to mean that Allah created the universe and that He had full control over it. I agree with that was well. But don't forget that we "evolved". What we know from scientific evidence is not meant to contradict what we know from the Qur'an. You have to accept that what we understood before by the interpretations of verses of the Qur'an may require re-interpretation. What we know from before is correct, it just needs to be tweaked. We are still made from the dust, and we are fashioned by Allah. But HOW we are fashioned is a whole other story. YOU cannot force an interpretation on the Qur'an because the old commentaries say that. The old commentaries were based on the knowledge that Muslims had before. Perhaps the scientific knowledge we have now equips us to understand what those older interpretations were saying and clarifies what Allah said about our creation.

Couldn't agree more. My firm belief is in all of this. Allah is Al-Khaaliq.

Again, you are forcing your own interpretation on this issue. I mentioned Ar-Razi explained how to understand "Be!" and it is. I don't care about your opinion. If I mention a scholar's opinion on something, then I expect you to at least mention another interpretation of Allah's Words based on some scholarly opinion as well.

And mentioning Allah's throne evolved? Astaghfirullah. I am only speaking about humans evolving here. Allah's Throne is not an object nor is it something which can be given any physical location. It is something beyond our comprehension. I will leave it at that on His Throne.

I already quoted verse 3:191, but it seems you completely missed that quotation. Allah said in that verse that in the heavens and the earth there are signs for those who believe. Does this mean we should not inquire as to what is in the Heavens and the Earth and turn a blind eye to it? No. I think you are anti-learning the way you presume we should not learn anything about the universe. I am starting to think you are backwards by claiming we should never know anything about the age of the universe simply because we don't know the number of the people of the cave. That is the most ludicrous way of arguing about numbers. The Qur'ans stories are not meant to be history, they are meant to teach lessons for which the details are not important. Like with Dhu'l Qarnain, what happened in the Qur'an is important, not the actual historical figure himself. This does not mean we should never study history and that we could never know anything about any past figures.

Honestly, you need to look at things differently. You really don't know anything about evolution. Fine, you are on board with intelligent design. That is just a term. Yes, we may not accept what Atheists think, but this does not mean we should disregard scientific fact. Allah CREATED everything, and He made everything with WISDOM. Therefore, to understand His creation REQUIRES WISDOM, NOT the lack of wisdom.

Even if this was the case (which it isn't, I have discussed God with Atheists, they are dismissive, and that's all there is to it), it doesn't change the fact that if you were to tell an Atheist that "Intelligent design is correct and evolution is wrong", they would just laugh at you. They would never take someone like you seriously, who thinks Adam was created the same way a clay statue is made and that we do not know the age of the universe (despite the estimates). They will think you've gone bonkers. I dare you to go up to an Atheist and try to argue on Intelligent Design the way you just argued it to me. NO Atheist will take you seriously. That is the honest truth. Test out my hypothesis if you think I am wrong.
Again, another reason why you need to go and study evolution again. We have common ancestors with the apes, but we were never apes ourselves. This is why I told you to go and research on the theory of evolution. I am not telling you to accept that God did not create the universe. I am strongly against any Atheist principles and I think they're self-aggrandized beliefs are loathsome and arrogant. There is no harm in learning something which you will find beneficial to your faith.

The Qur'an is easy to understand, yes, but it DOES have mysterious meanings to it which are somewhat incomprehensible. Such as those on Heaven and Hell. We know Heaven is beautiful and punishments in Hell are severe, but we do not know the actual extent to which Heaven is beautiful and Hell is severe. That is reserved for the Hereafter. Yes, the Holy Prophet (saw) received the best Tafsir of the Qur'an from Jibril (as), but we do not have that whole Tafsir. Even if we did, what we know now would make that Tafsir even more clear in meaning because some things in it were incomprehensible to the Arabs. For example, they did not know what the Dukhan meant when Allah described His making the Heavens and the Earth. We know now that the Dukhan is the nebula which the Solar System and much of the universe was made out of. Those are clouds of gas and smoke, thus, "Dukhan". However, 1400 years ago we did not understand what the "Dukhan" was. This is the miracle of the new meanings of the Qur'an which science discovers. It brings the Qur'an into a whole new light. We did not know the universe was made from a single point, but that is the Ratqan which is mentioned in Surah Al-Anbiya.

You are really missing out on a lot here. you are brushing off some amazing discoveries which put the Qur'an in a whole new light. Please do read up more on these and reflect on the Qur'an again after learning about them. Allah's creation is wondrous. His Greatness is reflected in His works.

"We have common ancestors with the apes," you stated and your telling me that I'm the one with the problem??? Prophet Adam peace be upon him is our ancestor and he did not evolve from apes, neither are we related to them, save the few that were turned into apes and swines at Allah's will -as they were despised.

I have spoken to Atheists, plenty of them and they cannot respond and if you don't know "atheism" does not actually exist as Allah stated many a times they reject the "truth", they don't reject something that they don't understand. This is why Allah sent the Prophets to tell them to repent, this was enough and for Allah to send them to Hell is a very, very, very good reason. As your too embarrassed to talk about Islam, because of the reactions of people as your obviously swept up by what they think, there is no need to place your ignorance on show.

I don't have to listen to "scholars", who can't even sort out the infighting between Muslims, and lets not forget a number of them leaving Islam. Go your way, and I'll go mine, as I am responsible for my own actions. IF this is what your "scholar" comes up with, then I take no shame in running away from corrupt people.


Your saying that the Muslims in the past didn't understand the Quran, and now they do because of what the disbelievers are doing?? Allah stated this is a clear message. What is obvious is people's intentions, our goal is NOT to learn about how this universe is created (as Allah even stated about the Christians talking about Prophet Jesus peace be upon him it is only conjecture-idle chit chat) that frankly you don't have the knowledge by talking about clusters. I am 100% happy and support the idea that people should get educated.

Your posts reeks of being uncomfortable with the face of what the non-believers have been doing in this world and your just saying I agree with the conclusion that they have come as you don't have anything in your defence to say to them. Which is why people should read the Quran and BELIEVE, as no one would be saying that we are related to apes. The goal in this world is to worship God, and whatever we learn is in line with what Allah states, what the disbelievers have been doing is part of their test, were people like to say that they will not be resurrected, they will not escape God no matter what they do, for even the people of Thamud were arrogant of carving their homes in the mountains, and this is no different, and instead of looking at this as a test for people your actually saying that people are unlocking the secrets of Allah-how on the wrong path you are!! The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him understood the message and so did his companions we don't need disbelievers telling us what it means a thousand years later!!!!! :bump1:

 

[crimsontide06]

Evolution:The changing of an organism over time to accommodate to its environment..etc. This is what evolution means.


Allah CREATED the "law of nature"; things happening certain ways are because that is how nature works....which includes evolution.

 

[Ahmad H]

Your saying that the Muslims in the past didn't understand the Quran, and now they do because of what the disbelievers are doing?? Allah stated this is a clear message. What is obvious is people's intentions, our goal is NOT to learn about how this universe is created and attribute anything that frankly you don't have the knowledge by talking about clusters. I am 100% happy and support the idea that people should get educated.

The Muslims of the past obviously understood the Qur'an, but we now know the hidden mysteries behind some of those meanings. They did not have access to the knowledge of the universe we have today. My intentions are clear, to see the miracle of Allah's Words in His creation.

Your posts reeks of being uncomfortable with the face of what the non-believers have been doing in this world and your just saying I agree with the conclusion that they have come as you don't have anything in your defence to say to them. Which is why people should read the Quran and BELIEVE, as no one would be saying that we are related to apes. The goal in this world is to worship God, and whatever we learn is in line with what Allah states, what the disbelievers have been doing is part of their test, were people like to say that they will not be resurrected, they will not escape God no matter what they do, for even the people of Thamud were arrogant of carving their homes in the mountains, and this is no different, and instead of looking this has people being tested your actually saying that people are unlocking the secrets of Allah-how on the wrong path you are!! The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him understood the message and so did his companions we don't need disbelievers telling us what it means a thousand years later!!!!!

Sister, what is your problem exactly here? There is nothing wrong with learning science. Yes, when we learn about nature, we are learning about the secrets of Allah's creation, because we did not know those things before. We find patterns in things. These patterns are mentioned in the Qur'an, such as that everything is created in pairs, Allah split the sky and the earth, then the sky rained and the earth split open for vegetation. Now we know this means that life on earth began when the skies contained water. There was a protective roof over the earth. In fact, we know now that the Qur'an says the sky is a "protected roof" because there is a magnetic field that protects the earth was harmful radiation from the sun and that there are many layers to the atmosphere which protects life on earth from the harmful radiation from space and contains our oxygen. The early companions did not know this, but they knew that these things were around and they existed. They just did not know what it was.

Now that we see these things, we learn what the Qur'an is saying. I don't believe you are 100% happy that people should get educated. I think you yourself are uneducated and are backwards living in the past and cannot fathom the very simple fact that Allah's creation, what we observe in it, does not conflict with the Qur'an. Learning about Allah's creation allows us to understand the Qur'an even better. Allah told us to reflect over the Heavens and the Earth. There are signs in the Heavens and the Earth which strengthen the faith of the believer.

Go back and read the Qur'an a little more. Knowledge which is learnt in order to understand the Qur'an better is good, not bad. This is my intention when I learn about nature, it is not to argue with Atheists. Really, what a silly way to look at things and twist them here. Are you not provoked on saying Subhanallah when you see the vastness of the universe and our being so small? Are you not thankful that Allah created us from the huge oceans? Allah tells us that when we observe the Heavens, we would not find a single flaw (67:3). This cannot happen unless we humans learned to observe the vastness of space. So stop being anti-science.

 

[observer]

...and if you don't know "atheism" does not actually exist as Allah stated many a times they reject the "truth", they don't reject something that they don't understand.

Imagine if I said that there are no religious people really - no real muslims; all they are are people who are not intelligent enough to see the truth that there is no god. If they understood, they wouldn't be religious - they'd be atheist.

What would you think? That I was being offensive or bigoted? That it was a stupid thing to say?

I'd agree with you - but that's exactly what you're saying here about atheists.

Any religious person would be offended by having their beliefs labelled ignorant and most people are careful to be respectful. Yet to insult an atheist's beliefs is fine: why?

 

[crimsontide06]

Any religious person would be offended by having their beliefs labelled ignorant and most people are careful to be respectful. Yet to insult an atheist's beliefs is fine: why?

Personally, I wouldn't insult any "belief" but I think the reason some people look at atheism as ok to insult is that believing in a god/deity, is deemed the dominant "norm" of most of society.

 

[observer]

Personally, I wouldn't insult any "belief" but I think the reason some people look at atheism as ok to insult is that believing in a god/deity, is deemed the dominant "norm" of most of society.

That may be, but it's not really a good rule of thumb that it's okay to insult anything that's not the norm I'd hope!

 

[h-n]

Evolution:The changing of an organism over time to accommodate to its environment..etc. This is what evolution means.


Allah CREATED the "law of nature"; things happening certain ways are because that is how nature works....which includes evolution.

Evolution as you stated is a changing of organism -believing that humans evolved over time-were they say that we came from apes, and that our ancestors were neandethals so we do not accept his as we Prophet Adam peace be upon him was created in as a perfect Man who walked upright.

 

[h-n]

The Muslims of the past obviously understood the Qur'an, but we now know the hidden mysteries behind some of those meanings. They did not have access to the knowledge of the universe we have today. My intentions are clear, to see the miracle of Allah's Words in His creation.



Sister, what is your problem exactly here? There is nothing wrong with learning science. Yes, when we learn about nature, we are learning about the secrets of Allah's creation, because we did not know those things before. We find patterns in things. These patterns are mentioned in the Qur'an, such as that everything is created in pairs, Allah split the sky and the earth, then the sky rained and the earth split open for vegetation. Now we know this means that life on earth began when the skies contained water. There was a protective roof over the earth. In fact, we know now that the Qur'an says the sky is a "protected roof" because there is a magnetic field that protects the earth was harmful radiation from the sun and that there are many layers to the atmosphere which protects life on earth from the harmful radiation from space and contains our oxygen. The early companions did not know this, but they knew that these things were around and they existed. They just did not know what it was.

Now that we see these things, we learn what the Qur'an is saying. I don't believe you are 100% happy that people should get educated. I think you yourself are uneducated and are backwards living in the past and cannot fathom the very simple fact that Allah's creation, what we observe in it, does not conflict with the Qur'an. Learning about Allah's creation allows us to understand the Qur'an even better. Allah told us to reflect over the Heavens and the Earth. There are signs in the Heavens and the Earth which strengthen the faith of the believer.

Go back and read the Qur'an a little more. Knowledge which is learnt in order to understand the Qur'an better is good, not bad. This is my intention when I learn about nature, it is not to argue with Atheists. Really, what a silly way to look at things and twist them here. Are you not provoked on saying Subhanallah when you see the vastness of the universe and our being so small? Are you not thankful that Allah created us from the huge oceans? Allah tells us that when we observe the Heavens, we would not find a single flaw (67:3). This cannot happen unless we humans learned to observe the vastness of space. So stop being anti-science.

Your just reminding people of what some jews did they deemed themselves with knowledge by saying they knew the names of many angels and how the heavens are run-and thought because they knew this that they were best educated, when they are far astray.

You keep on applying that you are learning about the Quran when you accept the disbelievers and say that we share apes as ancestors, then you using examples from the Quran to say that this means such and such and that people in the past did not know such and such.

You use the examples of the heavens and the earth-and you before attached relevance to star clusters, -there is no evidence that you have reached HEAVEN to say that this is a part of heaven and this is were the earth came from.

When Allah talks about providing rain from the skies, he means just that, when he talks about providing the varieties of fruit he means just that. You don't know how life began on earth (as the earth itself is alive-you can't say that it needed water, just as the heavens itself are alive), just as people don't know how the universe was created in science, and your just accepting it as fact were scientists don't. People in the past knew they had the sunshine in measure of day and did not have it at night, they knew the rainfall provided sustenance to the earth. We know that that the earth came apart from heaven saying that again does not support that you have learnt in science by it-we accept this has fact, we don't need to gather information to verify if the Quran is telling the truth or to make us believe it even more, or to understand it even more.

What you obviously don't get time and time again that people gained this technology etc to test them, and for any believer we heed the signs of the Day of Judgement.

The message that Allah has provided to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him to worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell -THIS MESSAGE GIVEN BY GOD, has been provided by all the Prophets ie Prophet Lut, Noah, Moses, Saleh, David, Solomon peace be upon them. There are people who even go as far as saying that the Quran has a code-Allah is Most Merciful, Most Just, the Judge on the Day of Judgement, he has given his message to Men, women and even children, a SIMPLE message to heed this warnings. If he wanted to you to have all the information of this Universe he would have provided it to you. Allah himself did NOT give you the numbers of the people hiding in the cave, teaching us that people are willing to be in conjecture over anything-which is were you are in now and are on the wrong path of what you say.

AS above is the opposite of what your saying, Allah even said look at the signs of God, ie all the food, rainfall and even look at what has happened to the people who were destroyed-as to REMEMBER AND HEED HIS WARNINGS. He did not say that you need to understand how the world was created to understand the Quran-so your reasoning is NOT religious at all. You even accuse me of being against education when actually I'm against what your saying, you even go as far as saying that yes there is no flaw in Allah's creation-but you have to learn about his creation to find this out?? How awful, not even an illiterate person who looks at God's creation would even say there is a flaw. You say that it helps you learn about the Quran, when you have only conjecture ie about clusters, and even going as far as saying that there the apes are your ancestors.

 

[h-n]

Imagine if I said that there are no religious people really - no real muslims; all they are are people who are not intelligent enough to see the truth that there is no god. If they understood, they wouldn't be religious - they'd be atheist.

What would you think? That I was being offensive or bigoted? That it was a stupid thing to say?

I'd agree with you - but that's exactly what you're saying here about atheists.

Any religious person would be offended by having their beliefs labelled ignorant and most people are careful to be respectful. Yet to insult an atheist's beliefs is fine: why?

I don't have a problem if you feel insulted, here is a list of why if you haven't bothered to read up on Islam;-

1. Prophet Noah peace be upon him came and told the people to repent--SEE THIS-he told them to repent-if there was any such thing as atheism why would the Prophets tell people to repent and worship God straightaway?? They didn't set up classrooms, or community buildings for people to discuss and so they "may" understand. The message that GOD HIMSELF HAS CHOSEN TO GIVE is so simple that there is one God, the Day of Judgement and Paradise and Hell. If there was such a thing as atheism why would God be asking for a Prophet to tell you to pray to him straightaway?? (people of course aren't forced to convert, and they did in taking advantage that God didn't destroy them earlier-but that doesn't change the fact that no Prophet said it was OK for you to repent tomorrow, 2 days later, next week, a couple of months).

There is no such thing as atheism as those people who are good enough to be judged being of sound mind know that God exists, it is the media hype of today were the people make it acceptable to say such things as they didn't in the past ie making homosexual behaviour normal.

2. When Prophet Moses peace be upon him came down the mountain and found the people committing a sin of worshipping the cow idol he didn't say that I'm not going to say anything as they might feel insulted.

3. When Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him smashed the idols to prove a point that they can't defend themselves, speak or help anyone (which I'm not saying that we need to), he didn't say I'm not going to, as I might insult them.

4. When all the Prophets told people that you will be going to Hell if you don't repent, they didn't stop or feel uncomfortable as wrongdoers didn't like them saying such things.

5. Islam isn't going to end up like Christianity were they decided not to speak against sins as much in fear of people saying that that they are being unkind, and even talked about Hell less, were now you get people saying that there loved ones are looking down on them, that they have guardian angels to protect them when they don't worship God, don't even forbid evil and enjoin what is good ie accepting sex outside of marriage.

So I 100% don't have a problem that you feel insulted, as I'm not here to accept what Satan wishes for us to say, when people like you accept his ways.

 

[observer]

I don't have a problem if you feel insulted, here is a list of why if you haven't bothered to read up on Islam;-

1. Prophet Noah peace be upon him came and told the people to repent--SEE THIS-he told them to repent-if there was any such thing as atheism why would the Prophets tell people to repent and worship God straightaway?? They didn't set up classrooms, or community buildings for people to discuss and so they "may" understand. The message that GOD HIMSELF HAS CHOSEN TO GIVE is so simple that there is one God, the Day of Judgement and Paradise and Hell. If there was such a thing as atheism why would God be asking for a Prophet to tell you to pray to him straightaway?? (people of course aren't forced to convert, and they did in taking advantage that God didn't destroy them earlier-but that doesn't change the fact that no Prophet said it was OK for you to repent tomorrow, 2 days later, next week, a couple of months).

There is no such thing as atheism as those people who are good enough to be judged being of sound mind know that God exists, it is the media hype of today were the people make it acceptable to say such things as they didn't in the past ie making homosexual behaviour normal.

2. When Prophet Moses peace be upon him came down the mountain and found the people committing a sin of worshipping the cow idol he didn't say that I'm not going to say anything as they might feel insulted.

3. When Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him smashed the idols to prove a point that they can't defend themselves, speak or help anyone (which I'm not saying that we need to), he didn't say I'm not going to, as I might insult them.

4. When all the Prophets told people that you will be going to Hell if you don't repent, they didn't stop or feel uncomfortable as wrongdoers didn't like them saying such things.

5. Islam isn't going to end up like Christianity were they decided not to speak against sins as much in fear of people saying that that they are being unkind, and even talked about Hell less, were now you get people saying that there loved ones are looking down on them, that they have guardian angels to protect them when they don't worship God, don't even forbid evil and enjoin what is good ie accepting sex outside of marriage.

So I 100% don't have a problem that you feel insulted, as I'm not here to accept what Satan wishes for us to say, when people like you accept his ways.

That's all fine, and you clearly hold your beliefs strongly. What is your feeling when someone insults Islam? According to your logic, I should be free to insult Islam if I want because I don't believe in it.

 

[h-n]

Personally, I wouldn't insult any "belief" but I think the reason some people look at atheism as ok to insult is that believing in a god/deity, is deemed the dominant "norm" of most of society.

So were do you stand when Allah is critical of the Christians that commit idol worship, with the Jews who look for the life of this world, and with those who reject and reject the truth that they are "deaf, dumb and blind" ??

 

[h-n]

That's all fine, and you clearly hold your beliefs strongly. What is your feeling when someone insults Islam? According to your logic, I should be free to insult Islam if I want because I don't believe in it.

We are on an Islamicboard talking about Islam, if you wish to insult Islam go somewhere else and it will be written on your record for the Day of Judgement, a day you wish you did not stand with the wrongdoers. So what you decide to do with your time in this test is up to.