Faith vs works

[glo]

I have heard it said that in Christianity faith is what matters most, whereas in Islam good deeds/works is what matters most.

The more I learn about Islam, the more I think the differences between the two religions with regards to these are not a great as some may believe.

I would like to explore just how the two different religions place their values on faith and works.
I would love to see this develop into a joint exploration of Christianity and Islam, rather than a 'X-is-right-and-Y-is-wrong' type argument ...

To set the scene, I will try to outline the positions of both religions, as I understand them (and trust that other Christians and Muslims will correct me if I'm wrong, or just add to it):

It is true that in Christianity faith is of the first and foremost importance for slavation. Jesus said:

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. (John 5:24-25)

But is Islam so different in that respect?
Is believing in Allah, the one God, not also a prerequisite for entering paradise?

As for works, Islam puts great emphasis on doing good deeds and being charitable - and the level punishment received in hell is dependent on conduct during one's earthly life.

But Jesus also gave some tough instruction on how do act towards fellow-humans (believers and non-believers).
And there are several Bible verses which indicate that believers will be judged by their actions on the Day of Judgement.
Here are a few which spring to mind:

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 19:21-23)

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' (Matthew 25: 35-40)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. (Revelation 20:11-13)

So, going back to my original question: How different are the views of Islam and Christianity with regards to the importance of faith and good deeds?

Peace

 

[- Qatada -]

Hi glo.


You have to realise that for a person to be a believer [since the message was revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him], they have to testify: Laa illaaha illAllaah Muhammad-ur RasoolAllaah (there is no deity worthy of worship except Allaah, and Muhammad [peace be upon him] is the Messenger of Allaah.


When a person sincerely testifies to this, then this is their first step. They are a mu'min (a believer.) Believing that none is worthy of worship besides Allaah has been the same message of all the previous prophets, and if a person believes in this sincerely, it means that they will worship Allaah because word of mouth isn't sufficient - but action proves this, therefore establishing salaah (the prayer) and obeying Allaah is proving this testification.



This mean's that faith and deeds come hand in hand [together] and without the other, it shows a lack of faith. So if a person says 'there is none worthy of worship besides Allaah' they will have to show this by action (i.e. by obeying Allaah, and His messenger (peace be upon him.) etc. How can a person say there is none worthy of worship besides Allaah, if this person is worshipping their own desires, instead of the orders given by Allaah?



We know that the last person to come out of the hellfire will only have a really small amount of faith in his heart,



On the day of resurrection, we will be responsible for our own actions. Faith will be a really important factor that day because anyone who never believed that Allaah should be worshipped alone may be eligible to the punishment of Allaah. If a person believed that none is worthy of worship besides Allaah, but sinned within his/her life - Allaah may choose to forgive them out of His Mercy.

When Allah has finished His Judgments among the people, He will take whomever He will out of Hell through His Mercy. He will then order the angels to take out of the Fire all those who used to worship none but Allah from among those whom Allah wanted to be merciful to and those who testified (in the world) that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah. The angels will recognize them in the Fire by the marks of prostration (on their foreheads), for the Fire will eat up all the human body except the mark caused by prostration as Allah has forbidden the Fire to eat the mark of prostration. They will come out of the (Hell) Fire, completely burnt and then the water of life will be poured over them and they will grow under it as does a seed that comes in the mud of the torrent.


Then Allah will finish the judgments among the people, and there will remain one man facing the (Hell) Fire and he will be the last person among the people of Hell to enter Paradise. He will say, 'O my Lord! Please turn my face away from the fire because its air has hurt me and its severe heat has burnt me.' So he will invoke Allah in the way Allah will wish him to invoke, and then Allah will say to him, 'If I grant you that, will you then ask for anything else?' He will reply, 'No, by Your Power, (Honor) I will not ask You for anything else.' He will give his Lord whatever promises and covenants Allah will demand.





So Allah will turn his face away from Hell (Fire). When he will face Paradise and will see it, he will remain quiet for as long as Allah will wish him to remain quiet, then he will say, 'O my Lord! Bring me near to the gate of Paradise.' Allah will say to him, 'Didn't you give your promises and covenants that you would never ask for anything more than what you had been given? Woe on you, O Adam's son! How treacherous you are!' He will say, 'O my lord,' and will keep on invoking Allah till He says to him, 'If I give what you are asking, will you then ask for anything else?' He will reply, 'No, by Your (Honor) Power, I will not ask for anything else.'





Then he will give covenants and promises to Allah and then Allah will bring him near to the gate of Paradise. When he stands at the gate of Paradise, Paradise will be opened and spread before him, and he will see its splendor and pleasures whereupon he will remain quiet as long as Allah will wish him to remain quiet, and then he will say, O my Lord! Admit me into Paradise.' Allah will say, 'Didn't you give your covenants and promises that you would not ask for anything more than what you had been given?' Allah will say, 'Woe on you, O Adam's son! How treacherous you are! '





The man will say, 'O my Lord! Do not make me the most miserable of Your creation,' and he will keep on invoking Allah till Allah will laugh because of his sayings, and when Allah will laugh because of him, He will say to him, 'Enter Paradise,' and when he will enter it, Allah will say to him, 'Wish for anything.' So he will ask his Lord, and he will wish for a great number of things, for Allah Himself will remind him to wish for certain things by saying, '(Wish for) so-and-so.' When there is nothing more to wish for, Allah will say, 'This is for you, and its equal (is for you) as well."


Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 532c




​

There are also other ahadith which mention that no-one can enter paradise through their good deeds, but Allaah will only allow a person to enter paradise through Allaah's Mercy. So we strive to do good deeds to earn Allaah's pleasure, so He may be pleased with us and allow us into paradise.

The reward of paradise is too great, and even if we did all the good we could in this world, it still wouldn't be sufficient because paradise is forever, whereas this world is only limted.




Allaah Almighty knows best.

​

Peace.


​

 

[Chuck]

In Islam both are important, if one is the soul then the other is body... both suppose to work together for healthy faith.

 

[Keltoi]

As far as I understand it, there isn't really a major difference between Christians and Muslims on the issue of faith and good works. It is primarily a matter of semantics. For both religions, faith in God is the first and most fundamental step, and this faith manifests itself through good works.

 

[glo]

Thank you, Fi_Sabilillah and Chuck, for your clarifications.

As far as I understand it, there isn't really a major difference between Christians and Muslims on the issue of faith and good works. It is primarily a matter of semantics. For both religions, faith in God is the first and most fundamental step, and this faith manifests itself through good works.

Thanks to you too, Keltoi.

I too have found that Christianity and Islam seem to be very similar in this respect.
I like the way you described it (see sentence highlighted in bold)

And yet many Muslims seem to think that Christians can act in any way they like, without fear of God's judgement.
I wonder where that misunderstanding stems from?
Perhaps because they see people, who they know or assume to be Christians, act in ungodly ways?

 

[- Qatada -]

Hi glo.


If a person commits evil in this world while believing in Jesus's salvation (according to christians) - will the person have to go hellfire, or will they go to the eternal kingdom anyway?




Thanks.

 

[glo]

Hi glo.


If a person commits evil in this world while believing in Jesus's salvation (according to christians) - will the person have to go hellfire, or will they go to the eternal kingdom anyway?

Thanks.

Hi Fi_Sabilillah

I am not sure I have the knowledge to answer you question suitably.
To my knowledge Christian teaching is not as prescriptive and descriptive in the punishments in the afterlife, as Islamic teachings are ...

Here in LI I come across threads which quite clearly outline what kind of punishment is to be expected for what kind of sin - many very detailed in their description, and fear-inducing.
I also remember reading that Muslims have to expect to suffer hellfire for a period of time, as a means of being cleansed from their commited sins.

I don't think the Bible is as clear as this ...
The final judgement is God's!

I am sorry if this is not a satisfactory reply, but it is the best I can do off the top of my head, and I am about to log off ...
perhaps somebody else can add to this.

Peace

 

[- Qatada -]

Oh ok, it's just that muslims fear to disobey Allaah because punishment is used to turn people away from evil in this world. Reward is also used as a positive reinforcement, and people won't take advantage of the fact that their muslims just to gain that salvation, but they have to strive to earn it.


It's more of a love, fear and hope thing.




Anyway thanks.


Peace.

 

[-Shakirah-]

Peace glo

The Bible (injeel) which the christians follow is one of the four heavenly books that Muslims believe in. The other two are the Palms (Zaboor) and the Torah (Toraat), which the Jews follow.
So you see, these religions are very similar because (Islam teaches) they all belong to the same creator.
However just like the jews believe in the Palms and the Torah and didn't carry on to following the Bible, (Muslims feel) that the Christians stopped at the Bible and didn't go on to continuing their faith onto the Quran.

Muslims believe that the Quran is the last and final scriptual communication from God to mankind and it is sufficiant to last until the end of time. We also believe it is the original words of God and we have a garantee that the words will never be changed in anyway what-so-ever, dispite the many attemps of people over time.
Therefore, in answer to the orignal question, the majority of knowlegded Muslims do not see any difference or major difference in the true guilded religions.

Salams

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Peace


Its just because christianity concentrates so much on faith and so little on practicality that it seems kind of like learning a course without a tutor.
I hope that makes sense .

But the idea of having pure faith is beautiful.



Peace -

 

[-Shakirah-]

Peace


Its just because christianity concentrates so much on faith and so little on practicality that it seems kind of like learning a course without a tutor.
I hope that makes sense .

But the idea of having pure faith is beautiful.



Peace -

Yeah he has a point

 

[Keltoi]

I wouldn't say Christianity puts more emphasis on faith than practicality. The churches in the United States are very giving to charities and do alot of social work. Yes, faith is important, but you can't have faith in Christ and not commit yourself to doing good works. It is difficult if not impossible to have one without the other.

 

[-Shakirah-]

I wouldn't say Christianity puts more emphasis on faith than practicality. The churches in the United States are very giving to charities and do alot of social work. Yes, faith is important, but you can't have faith in Christ and not commit yourself to doing good works. It is difficult if not impossible to have one without the other.

Well my point was, besides the optional acts of charity the Muslims may do, we have the obligatory 5 daily prayers, that we believe we will be held accountable for. So faith alone isn't 'enough' for us, we have to show it too. And that my friend, is the real test. Because to wake up at four in the morning to remember God isn't as easy as just saying, 'yeah i have faith.'

 

[zanjabeela]

And yet many Muslims seem to think that Christians can act in any way they like, without fear of God's judgement.
I wonder where that misunderstanding stems from?
Perhaps because they see people, who they know or assume to be Christians, act in ungodly ways?

Peace to all.
I know for myself where such a misunderstanding comes from. Its not so much witnessing the Christians who behave in ungodly ways--all faiths have those people among their numbers. Its largely the idea of salvation, that Jesus died for our sins. It usually sounds like they are saying "since he died for our sins, we can do whatever we want, because no matter what we do, the sin is already paid for."

With practicing Christians, I don't see them applying the idea that "we can do whatever we want," so I am slowly but surely coming to see that there is a good segment of the Christian population for whom faith and practice do go hand in hand...as for practicing Muslims.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Thank you, Fi_Sabilillah and Chuck, for your clarifications.


And yet many Muslims seem to think that Christians can act in any way they like, without fear of God's judgement.
I wonder where that misunderstanding stems from?

There is good reason for the misunderstanding. Many Christians are guilty of corrupting their own faith to make it say something that it does not.

There are those Christians that are so opposed to the view that one can earn one's way to heaven by doing certain good works, regardless of what one believes, that they appear as if they reject good works altogether as they chant "Faith Alone!".

Of course, this is an over-reaction. But it does exist and when Muslims (or anyone else sees it) it is understandable that they would reject that form of Christianity. For that matter, so do I -- and so does everyone else I know who takes their Christian faith seriously. But the stereotype exists and as Christians we need to do more to correct it.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Peace to all.
I know for myself where such a misunderstanding comes from. Its not so much witnessing the Christians who behave in ungodly ways--all faiths have those people among their numbers. Its largely the idea of salvation, that Jesus died for our sins. It usually sounds like they are saying "since he died for our sins, we can do whatever we want, because no matter what we do, the sin is already paid for."

With practicing Christians, I don't see them applying the idea that "we can do whatever we want," so I am slowly but surely coming to see that there is a good segment of the Christian population for whom faith and practice do go hand in hand...as for practicing Muslims.

Zanjabeela,

Thank you for observing the distinction. Sadly there are those people who call themselves Christian, and act as if a one time profession of faith is all that God is interested in. But as you observed, practicing Christians sing a different tune. --Literally a different tune, there is an old gospel song called "Trust and Obey". One needs both. We understand Jesus (pbuh) to teach, in Matthew 25, that it is how we treat the "least of these" in our societies on which one will be judged fit or unfit for the kingdom of God. The book of James puts it even more strongly:

James 2
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
​

 

[Umar001]

I dont know if in my zeal to post I have over looked something but dear Glo! Am dissapointed, lol, with regards to faith, how could the book of James be left out, I loved quoting this book left right and center, this book and the book of Titus, *drools*
I even used to use quotes of this in my songs/poetry.

Faith and Deeds
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Honestly, I mean, the book of James, really made me love it's author, in my pre-Islamic days.

EDIT: Darn! Grace Seeker got there as I was putting this up,

 

[zanjabeela]

Nifty, you both got the exact same verses from James, to post up lol Cool!

 

[chris4336]

And yet many Muslims seem to think that Christians can act in any way they like, without fear of God's judgement.
I wonder where that misunderstanding stems from?
Perhaps because they see people, who they know or assume to be Christians, act in ungodly ways?

Glo - Once I was speaking with a Muslim (from a Muslilm country) and he truly had NO IDEA that sex before marriage was prohibited in Christianity - I really think he thought it was allowed -if not encouraged.

Surely this does not speak for the whole Muslim population, but I would guess that there is a general belief in Muslim countries that
Western Values = Christian values, since the majority in the West are Christian (at least in name).

As for the faith vs works thing - Its my opinion that many Muslims get too bogged down in the "proper deeds" and sometimes miss the big picture. I mean, I understand the importance of honoring the prophet, but don't you think the time spent discussing what foot should be used to enter the bathroom with could be better spent in prayer?

But it goes both ways - A lot of Christians that I see in my country are living way differently than their religion perscribes. Maybe they have lots of "faith" (especially on Sunday) but they sure don't follow the religion, even the 10 commandments.

I realize I am making some very broad generalizations, but these are just my opinions.

 

[جوري]

Glo - Once I was speaking with a Muslim (from a Muslilm country) and he truly had NO IDEA that sex before marriage was prohibited in Christianity - I really think he thought it was allowed -if not encouraged..

Maybe he was trying to get fresh with you? I have a difficult time believing a Muslim person not understanding the true Christian or Jewish values... considering they came from the same source....... especially in a Muslim country where theology is part of the curriculum and obviously the prophets with their message would be taught therein.....

As for the faith vs works thing - Its my opinion that many Muslims get too bogged down in the "proper deeds" and sometimes miss the big picture. I mean, I understand the importance of honoring the prophet, but don't you think the time spent discussing what foot should be used to enter the bathroom with could be better spent in prayer?..

Islam is a way of life... it covers every facet...from how you brush your teeth to how to divide inheritance... yes some people obsess with a particular detail and can't move past it, the same way an obsessive compulsive might wash their hands three times before dinner or check on the lights 4 times before leaving the house.... a good balance was also advised by the prophet (PBUH) as well as The Prophet said: 'The religion (of Islam) is easy. No one ever made it difficult without it becoming too much for him. So avoid extremes and strike a balance, do the best you can and be cheerful, and seek Allah's help (through prayer) in the morning, and evening, and part of the night.' (Sahîh Bukhârî) ........ G-D gave us all a brain (hopefully) with which to discern the verses and apply them properly and use them to govern your life appropriately.....
peace!