Fasting & the Concept of Worship

[PouringRain]

I will give you the background of the conversation on the forum in another thread, that has led to the creation of this thread, and then I will ask the question.

Background:

I was in a discussion earlier today with scorpian on fasting. He said:

I don`t worship jesus,i meant it in the like christian sense,cause like they don`t fast or nowt.

So I challenged him on his statement and he replied with a link to a video. I replied back to him, but my reply was deleted for being off-topic.... I am not complaining and I totally respect his decision .... so I PMed Scorpian with my comments:

I replied to you in your thread, but I don't know if you saw it, because it was deleted as being "off topic".

What I basically said is that in the video you linked to, he is talking about fasting in rituals, such as ramadan. Christians are not required to fast in the ritualistic sense, but Christians do fast all the time and for various reasons. Many Christian chruches no longer follow any rituals, but there are some that still do.

I will probably open a thread in comparative religion on fasting, so that it will not be off topic.

All the best.

So then scorpian responded and said that he meant in the sense like God telling them to fast, and he mentioned lent and how it is different.



So, that is the discussion that led to this thread. I am interested in people compare/ contrasting the similarities and differences of fasting in Christianity and Islam, feel free to also include Judaism if anyone would like. Also, feel free to use verses from the qur'an, bible, hadiths, etc. to support how and why individuals fast in each religion.


(The admin who deleted my post had a great suggestion that I search comparative religion section for a thread on fasting already, and so I did, but I was unable to find one.)

 

[Muhammad]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Greetings PouringRain,

Thanks for being understanding.

I think that although Christians do fast, their fasting is very different to Muslims. In lent for example, they only give up certain foods which they want to have more control over, like chocolate or cake. In fact, I don't think any religion prescribes fasting in the same way as Islam does. In Hinduism, I believe they are allowed to drink water and eat fruit as part of their fast. Not only this, but I'm not sure whether fasting is a specific command in any other religion than Islam.

Peace.

 

[glo]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

I agree that fasting in Islam is different, because it is very clearly prescribed and it one of the five pillars.
Its strength is the unity with which all Muslims fast - especially during Ramadan. That must be a great unifying experience for all Muslims! :statisfie

Fasting is Christianity is much more varied and less prescriptive. That might seem confusing or unclear to non-Muslims - and in some ways perhaps it is.
Different Christians fast differently - depending on the traditions they follow. Some abstain from certain food or drink during specific times, such as Lent or Advent. Others abstain from certain food or drink on certain days of the week. Others set aside times of complete fasting (from food and/or drink) when they feel prompted by God to do so.
Confusing as that might seem to outsiders, I think it has one great strength: when I (and other Christians I know) fast, we don't do so because it is prescribed or because we feel we must fast to conform to others - but we do so because we desire to do so and because we want to make a sacrifice and spiritual offering to God. (Of course I cannot speak for all Christians, but only for those I see around me)
I usually fast without telling anybody else, and I do it quietly and alone (which is probably why I so admire the unified fasting of all Muslims during Ramadan)

Both ways have strength and weaknesses. I trust that God sees the effort and desire in both Muslims and Christians, when they fast for his sake. :statisfie

 

[Insaanah]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Confusing as that might seem to outsiders, I think it has one great strength: when I (and other Christians I know) fast, we don't do so because it is prescribed or because we feel we must fast to conform to others - but we do so because we desire to do so and because we want to make a sacrifice and spiritual offering to God. (Of course I cannot speak for all Christians, but only for those I see around me)
I usually fast without telling anybody else, and I do it quietly and alone (which is probably why I so admire the unified fasting of all Muslims during Ramadan)

Both ways have strength and weaknesses. I trust that God sees the effort and desire in both Muslims and Christians, when they fast for his sake.

Ramadan is the compulsory and well-known period of fasting that everybody knows about, however there are many optional recommended fasts on certain days, eg the six days after Eid al Fitr, Mondays and Thursdays every week, 13th-15th of every lunar month, the day of Arafah, (the day before Eid al Adha), the day Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) was saved etc.

On top of this, we fast on other days of our choosing if we want to, feel the need to, or simply wish to for Allah's sake, and many people do. These fasts are invariably kept quiet, the knowledge of it being between you and Allah alone.

So we get the best of both compulsory and optional, public and private, together and alone, as well as following in the footsteps of the earlier prophets (peace be upon them).

Peace

 

[glo]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

On top of this, we fast on other days of our choosing if we want to, feel the need to, or simply wish to for Allah's sake, and many people do. These fasts are invariably kept quiet, the knowledge of it being between you and Allah alone.

So we get the best of both compulsory and optional, public and private, together and alone, as well as following in the footsteps of the earlier prophets (peace be upon them).

Peace

Greetings, Insane Insaan

I did not mean to say that Muslims don't fast for the simply joy of doing it for God.

I guess what I meant was that when there is no obligation put on people at all to fast, and then they do it, it's perhaps a sure sign that they are doing it willingly and with the right heart.
That's not to say that people for whom fasting is obligatory don't do it with the right heart too. :statisfie

I wouldn't be able to make any such claim, since I cannot see into people's hearts and minds. Only God can.

May God be pleased with our intentions and our sincere desire to serve and honour him.

 

[PouringRain]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Good post, glo. I agree that Christians fast for a variety of reasons and in a variety of ways.

Often when we see those in the Bible fasting (and christians who fast), it is for the purposes of drawing closer to God, strength, and also when a decision is needed and they are waiting on God's direction/ will.

I usually fast without telling anybody else, and I do it quietly and alone

This comes from Matthew 6: 16-18 Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

On top of this, we fast on other days of our choosing if we want to, feel the need to, or simply wish to for Allah's sake, and many people do. These fasts are invariably kept quiet, the knowledge of it being between you and Allah alone.

Peace

It sounds like this type of fast is more similar to what most Christians do.

As I mentioned in my first post, many christian denominations no longer follow rituals. One exception would be lent, but even that is observed differently in different denominations. (Lent, is the 40 day fast in remembrance of Jesus' fast in the wilderness.)

 

[Sister Unknown]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

The days of worship during fasting are a bit more serious than our everyday worship. There was an example I'll try to give, it is like the winter in a year. During late winter (maybe not the right season), the earth is filled with water that later on becomes very useful. Same with Ramadhan, it is a month in which we learn a lot of piety that lasts the entire year.


Ramadhan is a means of attaining piety and conscience of Allah because the one who is fasting, is exercising self-control by refusing his or her personal desires for the pleasure of Allah. It also reminds us of the suffering of those who are unable to provide for themselves on a daily basis, and fills us with empathy toward the poor, gratitude toward Allah for His blessings, and humility in what we have been given.

Ramadhan begins when the new moon has been sighted. This means that if it has been sighted in Africa, or Saudi Arabia or even South America, then Ramadhan has begun for all of us. There are prayer schedules and there are also Ramadhan schedules which aid people in knowing when to pray/break their fast.

 

[جوري]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

The couple of orthodox christians that I knew, didn't enjoy fasting, one kept asking 'the father' for allowances which he well allowed, I am not sure by whose authority or which is the point, she might as well had gone on a jenny craig diet is that were its purpose. We cannot in my humble opinion make God acquiesce to our desires and then make the claim that, it is how God wants it, because God is love. If you are not God, then you can't speak for God.. It is as if saying the teacher wants us to read this book but I only read chapter 13 because it was my favorite and he'll be pleased.. don't then complain if you end up failing the exam.

2:183 O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,

fasting should teach us empathy, self-restrain, discipline, humility, but it should also make us grow closer to God, closer to those less fortunate, closer to the ummah and closer to our bodies.. most physical ailments come from what we gorge on.. what a blessing it is to have a pillar of the religion where one detoxes their body and grow spiritually..

al7mdlillah for surely the gift of Islam isn't merely for the hereafter but in the here and now!

 

[PouringRain]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Thank you sister unknown and the vale's lily. Those were both very good posts. Sister unknown, I like what you wrote about ramadan-- some very good points about the benefits. The vale's lily, I couldn't agree with you more. It is ironic that in the past couple of days I have had a similar discussion with christians about people who claim to know God's will, but in reality it is their own will. It is too often that people make that mistake.

 

[sister herb]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Both ways have strength and weaknesses. I trust that God sees the effort and desire in both Muslims and Christians, when they fast for his sake. :statisfie

Peace with you;

may Allah be mercy to everyone who do anything, like fasting, for His sake. Allah knows the best.

your sister in humanity

 

[Ramadhan]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Greetings, Insane Insaan

I did not mean to say that Muslims don't fast for the simply joy of doing it for God.

I guess what I meant was that when there is no obligation put on people at all to fast, and then they do it, it's perhaps a sure sign that they are doing it willingly and with the right heart.
That's not to say that people for whom fasting is obligatory don't do it with the right heart too. :statisfie

I wouldn't be able to make any such claim, since I cannot see into people's hearts and minds. Only God can.

May God be pleased with our intentions and our sincere desire to serve and honour him.

I am confused why you keep chosing to ignore the explanations given that millions of muslims are fasting on any given day (with the exception of few certain days in a year where it's forbidden to fast), and their fastings are NOT obligated. Most of them do it simply for God. There is a hadith (cant remember the details) that says fasting is the only ibada that is for Allah because when someone does fasting, only they and Allah know.

Anyway, the jews were commanded to fast, prophet Jesus a.s. also fasted because he was commanded to.
And I am not sure christians today fast in the same way as jesus a.s. did.

 

[PouringRain]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

And I am not sure christians today fast in the same way as jesus a.s. did.

On a large scale, I'd say no, and agree with you. On a smaller scale, there are those who feel things like that are important to them.

 

[glo]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

I am confused why you keep chosing to ignore the explanations given that millions of muslims are fasting on any given day (with the exception of few certain days in a year where it's forbidden to fast), and their fastings are NOT obligated. Most of them do it simply for God. There is a hadith (cant remember the details) that says fasting is the only ibada that is for Allah because when someone does fasting, only they and Allah know.

What makes you think that I am ignoring Insane Insaan's explanation? I have read it with great interest.

And I entirely agree with her. When we fast, we should do so willingly and with a joyful and giving and serving heart.
The point I was making (and which you seem to chose to ignore), was that when fasting is obligatory it may be difficult to discern whether people are doing it willingly and joyfully, or because they have to and want to conform with their peers.

One could argue that it really doesn't matter what people think - because it is God who matters, and he knows people's hearts. I would agree with that.
One could argue that you have to fast, full stop. Doing it willingly may be better, but doing it grudgingly is better than not doing it at all. I could accept that as a view point, although I am not sure that I personally agree with it.

Anyway, and just to clarify - the Ramadan fast is obligatory, isn't it?

 

[Ramadhan]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

What makes you think that I am ignoring Insane Insaan's explanation? I have read it with great interest.

And I entirely agree with her. When we fast, we should do so willingly and with a joyful and giving and serving heart.
The point I was making (and which you seem to chose to ignore), was that when fasting is obligatory it may be difficult to discern whether people are doing it willingly and joyfully, or because they have to and want to conform with their peers.One could argue that it really doesn't matter what people think - because it is God who matters, and he knows people's hearts. I would agree with that.One could argue that you have to fast, full stop. Doing it willingly may be better, but doing it grudgingly is better than not doing it at all. I could accept that as a view point, although I am not sure that I personally agree with it.

You cannot judge whether people do it willingly or not, so why keep bringing up the point?
Anyway, as I already said, at any given day, millions of muslims are fastings for the sake of Allah SWT, many more than the total christians who fast in a year.
When I said the word "fasting" here is the way fastings were done by the prophets pbut which was commanded by God.

And yes, the Ramadan fasting is obligatory, just like the 5 times a day shalaah.

Anyway, why did prophet Jesus a.s. fast? Did the disciples fast?

How did christians stop fasting, or maybe more accurately, how did they make fasting optional?

 

[Insaanah]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

And I entirely agree with her. When we fast, we should do so willingly and with a joyful and giving and serving heart.
The point I was making (and which you seem to chose to ignore), was that when fasting is obligatory it may be difficult to discern whether people are doing it willingly and joyfully, or because they have to and want to conform with their peers.

One could argue that you have to fast, full stop. Doing it willingly may be better, but doing it grudgingly is better than not doing it at all. I could accept that as a view point, although I am not sure that I personally agree with it.

My apologies here, for I realise that there is something that I haven't mentioned.

To be fair, a non-Muslim will just see Ramadan as a compulsory fast, which either willingly or unwillingly, you have to do and there is no choice.

What I have failed to mention, so that non-Muslims can understand a bit better, is the virtues of Ramadan, and the huge, huge, reward, virtue and benefit associated with fasting, praying etc that month, quite apart from the physical, mental, and spiritual benefits.

Rewards so huge, that you can't get at any other time of the year, or any other days:

- “There has come to you Ramadaan, a blessed month which Allaah has enjoined you to fast, during which the gates of heaven are opened and the gates of Hell are closed, and the rebellious devils are chained up. In it there is a night which is better than a thousand months, and whoever is deprived of its goodness is indeed deprived.” Narrated by al-Nasaa’i, 2106; Ahmad, 8769.

- “Whoever fasts Ramadaan out of faith and in the hope of reward, his previous sins will be forgiven.” And al-Bukhaari (2008) and Muslim (174)

- Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Whoever spends the nights of Ramadaan in prayer out of faith and in the hope of reward, his previous sins will be forgiven.”

- Al-Bazzaar (Kashf 962) narrated that Abu Sa’eed said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Allaah has people whom He redeems every day and night – i.e., in Ramadaan – and every Muslim every day and night has a prayer that is answered.”

- Fasting Ramadaan is a means of expiation for the sins committed since the previous Ramadaan, so long as one avoids major sins. It was proven in Saheeh Muslim (233) that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “The five daily prayers, from one Friday to the next and from one Ramadaan to the next are expiation for (sins committed) in between, so long as you avoid major sins.”

- Fasting in Ramadaan is equivalent to fasting ten months, as is indicated by the hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim (1164) narrated from Abu Ayyoob al-Ansaari: “Whoever fasts Ramadaan then follows it with six days of Shawwaal, it will be like fasting for a lifetime.” Ahmad (21906) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Whoever fasts Ramadaan, a month is like ten months, and fasting six days after al-Fitr will complete the year.”

- Whoever prays qiyaam (the night prayer)in Ramadaan with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded for him that he spent the whole night in prayer, because of the report narrated by Abu Dawood (1370) and others from the hadeeth of Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded for him that he spent the whole night in prayer.”

- It is strongly recommended in Ramadaan to study the Qur’aan together and to read it a great deal. You may study the Qur’aan together by reciting it to someone else and by having someone else recite it to you. The evidence that this is mustahabb is the fact that Jibreel (Gabriel, peace be upon him) used to meet the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) every night in Ramadaan and study the Qur’aan with him. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6; Muslim, 2308.

- The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Whoever gives iftaar (food to break the fast at the time of the fasts end) to one who is fasting will have a reward like his, without that detracting from the fasting person’s reward in the slightest.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 807; Ibn Maajah, 1746.

These are just a small amount of the hadeeths on the topic.

So you can see Ramadan is completely extraordinary, and fasting during it being compulsory or not doesn't make any difference to the joy and the hope that everyone feels during this blessed month, the world over.

To Muslims, when it arrives, it's like a most beloved guest with you for a month. When Ramadan finishes, there is utter sadness, that that opportunity for reward is finished, and emotional prayers are said, asking Allah to give us it's reward and to make us alive to see and take part and benefit from the next Ramadan.

Peace.

 

[PouringRain]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Anyway, as I already said, at any given day, millions of muslims are fastings for the sake of Allah SWT, many more than the total christians who fast in a year.

Could you please cite the source from which you derive this statistic? Thank you.

 

[glo]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

So you can see Ramadan is completely extraordinary, and fasting during it being compulsory or not doesn't make any difference to the joy and the hope that everyone feels during this blessed month, the world over.

To Muslims, when it arrives, it's like a most beloved guest with you for a month. When Ramadan finishes, there is utter sadness, that that opportunity for reward is finished, and emotional prayers are said, asking Allah to give us it's reward and to make us alive to see and take part and benefit from the next Ramadan.

Peace.

Thank you, sis.
That's really informative and helpful!

Having been in this forum for 4 years now I have certainly noticed and admired the deep feelings of joy and dedication which Muslims have expressed for Ramadan. :statisfie
I understand that although it is a compulsory fast, there will undoubtedly be uncounted Muslims who consider it a joy and blessing to fast for the sake of Allah.

* * *​

Something that I find slightly different, being a Christian (it would be good to hear Pouring Rain's thoughts here) is the sense of fasting for a reward.
I understand this from an Islamic point of view, but I don't think I can relate to that particularly well as a Christian.

Personally speaking, I don't think I fast because I think God will reward me for it. I fast as my gift and worship to God. It's an unconditional offering - I don't think I expect anything from God in return for it ...

(Any thoughts?)

 

[Muslim Woman]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Salaam/Peace

... I don't think I fast because I think God will reward me for it. ....(Any thoughts?)

oh no glo , my thought is different . I expect so much from God Almighty . I see no problem to do fasting with the intention to please God Almighty and get rewards specially on hereafter .

The final day will be very scary even for the messengers . We will have to depend on mercy of God . So , for each fasting , if our sins are forgiven and we can go to Paradise , that will be so wonderful

 

[Insaanah]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Something that I find slightly different, being a Christian (it would be good to hear Pouring Rain's thoughts here) is the sense of fasting for a reward.
I understand this from an Islamic point of view, but I don't think I can relate to that particularly well as a Christian.

Personally speaking, I don't think I fast because I think God will reward me for it. I fast as my gift and worship to God. It's an unconditional offering - I don't think I expect anything from God in return for it ...

(Any thoughts?)

Just to clarify, the primary reason we fast isn't to get reward. It is to please Him and worship Him, as well as to fulfil His command, rather than for any self-interest.

Our fasting is not conditional on getting that reward. Our reward is a lovely bonus from Allah, and because He is Fair, Just and Loving, He gives us so much reward for it as well.

No good deed done for His sake goes unrewarded:

"Whoso bringeth a good deed will receive tenfold the like thereof, while whoso bringeth an ill-deed will be awarded but the like thereof; and they will not be wronged." (6:160)

Peace.

 

[glo]

re: Fasting & the Concept of Worship

Salaam/Peace

oh no glo , my thought is different . I expect so much from God Almighty . I see no problem to do fasting with the intention to please God Almighty and get rewards specially on hereafter .

The final day will be very scary even for the messengers . We will have to depend on mercy of God . So , for each fasting , if our sins are forgiven and we can go to Paradise , that will be so wonderful

Just to clarify, the primary reason we fast isn't to get reward. It is to please Him and worship Him, as well as to fulfil His command, rather than for any self-interest.

Our fasting is not conditional on getting that reward. Our reward is a lovely bonus from Allah, and because He is Fair, Just and Loving, He gives us so much reward for it as well.

No good deed done for His sake goes unrewarded:

"Whoso bringeth a good deed will receive tenfold the like thereof, while whoso bringeth an ill-deed will be awarded but the like thereof; and they will not be wronged." (6:160)

Peace.

Thank you both for sharing your thoughts on this.

I can understand that Muslims fast to please and worship God, and I am not belittling or denying that.
But the focus on good deeds leading to a reward seems stronger in Islam than in Christianity.

I think the difference is that Christians believe to have gained God's forgiveness and grace already - therefore good deeds are done is response to God's goodness and mercy on us.
Whereas Muslims believe that they have to work their hardest to be allowed entry into Jennah - therefore good deeds are done in order to gain God's rewards.

I am sure we have discussed this before in other threads, and it probably doesn't belong in this one.



I enjoy discussing this topic, realising the similarities between our faiths and trying to understand the differences better.
Thank you all for joining. :statisfie