Female Foeticide

[Muhaba]

well they all go to heaven since tehy died before becoming adults, so although it is terrible for ppl to be doing abortions, esp because the fetus is a girl, its good for the girls as they don't have to worry about going to hell, etc.

 

[GuestFellow]

I don't understand this thing about dowry, shouldn't it be the other way around? what do men bring into these types of marriages anyway- have they no obligations outside of 'family name'?

Salaam,

I don't understand it either and I'm exposed to this sort of culture...

 

[Ansariyah]

Alhamdulilah that we are Muslims.

This without a doubt is murderous & barbaric. I cant believe it that these people aren't educated about the simple fact that its a female who can give birth to a son. This is a form of ethnic cleansing, done by its own kind. Truly insane.

 

[KAding]

Salaam,

I don't understand it either and I'm exposed to this sort of culture...

I assume it has all to do with economic productivity. Traditionally, most women don't work (on a professional basis at least), so they don't earn any income for the family.

Of course, this completely ignores all the work they do in the household in general (in particular regarding any children). I suppose that just shows how little unpaid work is appreciated, even in pre-capitalist traditions .

 

[CosmicPathos]

madscientist- I suggest you read the article again so you actually understand what this thread is about. My response had nothing to do with being a feminist reaction the girls being aborted as opposed to males it's the fact that girls are being aborted specifically because girls are not considered as worthwhile as boys. I was pointing out that if they all aborted their girls the species couldn't continue anyway! And I don't know why you had to bring atheists into the argument, what had that got to do anything? Many many atheists don't agree with abortion full stop.

If it is rational to abort fetuses, it also rational to abort based on one's preference for gender of the baby. If that is true, then well too bad for female fetuses.

 

[ardianto]

If it is rational to abort fetuses, it also rational to abort based on one's preference for gender of the baby. If that is true, then well too bad for female fetuses.

I think you assume if all non-Muslims support abortion.

 

[Ramadhan]

I think you assume if all non-Muslims support abortion.

I think br. Mad scientist was responding to the atheists/agnostics in this forum, and not addressing non-muslims in general.
He is actually exposing how hypocritical they are, how they support freedom of abortion, but got mad when it is the female foetus being aborted.

 

[Amat Allah]

Inna lillah wa inna ilayhi rajioon...laa hawla wa laa qowata illa bellah.

 

[ardianto]

I think br. Mad scientist was responding to the atheists/agnostics in this forum, and not addressing non-muslims in general.
He is actually exposing how hypocritical they are, how they support freedom of abortion, but got mad when it is the female foetus being aborted.

Okay, okay, I understand.

 

[LauraS]

If it is rational to abort fetuses, it also rational to abort based on one's preference for gender of the baby. If that is true, then well too bad for female fetuses.

Where did I actualy state I support abortion though? You can't assume all atheists agree with abortion and point out where the large numbers of atheists are on this thread that are supporting abortion?

Surely you don't agree with aborting babies because of their gender? This thread is about that topic and not abortion in general.

Well, if it's too bad for the female foetuses then that's too bad for the men who suddenly find there are few women and they have to look after their own houses.

 

[Predator]

.

Well, if it's too bad for the female foetuses then that's too bad for the men who suddenly find there are few women and they have to look after their own houses.

Or they will become Gays as the Minister pointed out,LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8oNKfAv8P0

 

[Perseveranze]

Where did I actualy state I support abortion though? You can't assume all atheists agree with abortion and point out where the large numbers of atheists are on this thread that are supporting abortion?

Surely you don't agree with aborting babies because of their gender? This thread is about that topic and not abortion in general.

Well, if it's too bad for the female foetuses then that's too bad for the men who suddenly find there are few women and they have to look after their own houses.

I really think you misunderstood the guy lol. Why would he agree about aborting babies, you can't be a muslim if you did.

He was just showing hypocrisy from Athiests or people who claim "everyone has the freedom to choose". Their complaining about it now, but what happened to their "proud" arguement about freedom of choice? Can't a women "choose" whether she wants a child or not, what has it got to do with anyone else if she wants to abort babies based on gender?

That's the Athiest, regardless of whether you say some don't support abortion, there is definitly hypocrisy there. Maybe it might help them understand why religion restricts man in making "certain free choices".

 

[GuestFellow]

Or they will become Gays as the Minister pointed out,LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8oNKfAv8P0

Salaam,

That is bizarre...lol. O_O

 

[Trumble]

That's the Athiest, regardless of whether you say some don't support abortion, there is definitly hypocrisy there. Maybe it might help them understand why religion restricts man in making "certain free choices".

He is actually exposing how hypocritical they are, how they support freedom of abortion, but got mad when it is the female foetus being aborted.

Like who? Who are 'they'?


This puerile atheist = boogey-man nonsense is getting ridiculous. Of course some don't support abortion, or the 'right to choose' (they are not the same thing); a great many don't. Abortion is one of the big moral issues whatever religion you happen to have, or none.. the only difference is atheists actually have to think about it for themselves.

If you think anyone posting here is being a hypocrite, explain why and give them the chance to defend themselves as opposed to unjustfiable generalizations. Or be prepared to bite your lip when those elsewhere condemn all muslims as approving the actions of these morons, that is unless you wish to be hypocrites yourselves.

What passes for argument here is a joke. Is, for example, the choice between whether or not to abort a pregnancy that is the result of rape really the same choice as whether or not to abort a pregnancy because the fetus is female rather than male? Or that to abort a fetus that will grow into a severely disabled child really the same choice as whether or not to abort a pregnancy because the fetus will grow into a brunette and not a blonde? I'm asking for a yes or a no to that question only. If you really think yes, maybe you just might want to reflect on how easy it is sitting in your armchairs to make life-changing decisions on behalf of other people.

 

[جوري]

choice between whether or not to abort a pregnancy that is the result of rape really the same choice as whether or not to abort a pregnancy because the fetus is female rather than male?

chance of pregnancy after a rape is pretty slim actually, not sure you can use that to make a point given the disparity.. be that as it may I don't think anyone here is advocating either infanticide or abortions, they're merely pointing out the hypocrisy of what makes one choice reasonably acceptable to those who point the fingers while the other not?

The Question comes to the level of maturity of those individuals who answer the question quite casually.. I had a friend who had a couple of abortion at 17 yrs of age, who now in her early thirties undergoing fertility treatments each round in the thousands.. I often marvel at how people can throw away life that is created YES created in their wombs when others are struggling to have a child simply because well whatever reason they deem plausible.. but it is an interesting twist of fate for a woman to be on both ends of the spectrum. Perhaps if everyone got to experience both the desire to not have and the desire to have would it balance out their reasoning a bit or at least the decisions preceding the act.

Is there room for personal opinion? I think the whole thing is pretty disgusting actually..
If they're not wanted in India or china or by some promiscuous teenager wherever, there are many childless couples in the world who would love to sponsor or adopt such children...

my two cents.

 

[LauraS]

Like who? Who are 'they'?


This puerile atheist = boogey-man nonsense is getting ridiculous. Of course some don't support abortion, or the 'right to choose' (they are not the same thing); a great many don't. Abortion is one of the big moral issues whatever religion you happen to have, or none.. the only difference is atheists actually have to think about it for themselves.

If you think anyone posting here is being a hypocrite, explain why and give them the chance to defend themselves as opposed to unjustfiable generalizations. Or be prepared to bite your lip when those elsewhere condemn all muslims as approving the actions of these morons, that is unless you wish to be hypocrites yourselves.

Exactly the point I'm making, I don't know who these atheists are who are supporting abortions on this thread? I agree with the last comment too.

 

[Perseveranze]

Like who? Who are 'they'?


This puerile atheist = boogey-man nonsense is getting ridiculous. Of course some don't support abortion, or the 'right to choose' (they are not the same thing); a great many don't. Abortion is one of the big moral issues whatever religion you happen to have, or none.. the only difference is atheists actually have to think about it for themselves.

If you think anyone posting here is being a hypocrite, explain why and give them the chance to defend themselves as opposed to unjustfiable generalizations. Or be prepared to bite your lip when those elsewhere condemn all muslims as approving the actions of these morons, that is unless you wish to be hypocrites yourselves.

What passes for argument here is a joke. Is, for example, the choice between whether or not to abort a pregnancy that is the result of rape really the same choice as whether or not to abort a pregnancy because the fetus is female rather than male? Or that to abort a fetus that will grow into a severely disabled child really the same choice as whether or not to abort a pregnancy because the fetus will grow into a brunette and not a blonde? I'm asking for a yes or a no to that question only. If you really think yes, maybe you just might want to reflect on how easy it is sitting in your armchairs to make life-changing decisions on behalf of other people.

Right, you clearly got the wrong idea.

Your ideology, or shall I say Athiests ideology is about promoting freedom of choice I assume? So there is hypocrisy against their ideology that a person has to be forced to decide whether to have an abortion or not. Yet in "other" choices they are free to do as they like, as it's their choice. Same with suicide, your ideology is that a person is free to "choose" whether they want to end their life.

If that is not the case, then clearly there isn't freedom of choice OR there's plain hypocrisy.

With your example, Islam's ideology completly clashes against what those 4 people did. So there is no hypocrisy for any Muslim that follows Islam properly, we condemn such actions as it promotes violence.

Think

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Like who? Who are 'they'?


This puerile atheist = boogey-man nonsense is getting ridiculous. Of course some don't support abortion, or the 'right to choose' (they are not the same thing); a great many don't. Abortion is one of the big moral issues whatever religion you happen to have, or none.. the only difference is atheists actually have to think about it for themselves.

If you think anyone posting here is being a hypocrite, explain why and give them the chance to defend themselves as opposed to unjustfiable generalizations. Or be prepared to bite your lip when those elsewhere condemn all muslims as approving the actions of these morons, that is unless you wish to be hypocrites yourselves.

What passes for argument here is a joke. Is, for example, the choice between whether or not to abort a pregnancy that is the result of rape really the same choice as whether or not to abort a pregnancy because the fetus is female rather than male? Or that to abort a fetus that will grow into a severely disabled child really the same choice as whether or not to abort a pregnancy because the fetus will grow into a brunette and not a blonde? I'm asking for a yes or a no to that question only. If you really think yes, maybe you just might want to reflect on how easy it is sitting in your armchairs to make life-changing decisions on behalf of other people.

Nice rant (First two paragraphs anyway)

Theres no obligiation to post if you dont like the quality of the argumentation in this forum, Im sure there are plenty of other forums just waiting for you to dazzle them with your brilliant insights.

On the actual question of abortion I'll need to study the question more. My initial opinion is that though it is acceptable in Islam I do share an intense dislike of the practice. I think any decent society will do what it can to minimise the amount of abortions that happens.

Bit of history, in the UK its legalisation coupled with the cultural revolution (eg. breakdown of family unit etc) of the 1960s led to the growth of abortion on demand. To be fair to the legislators this was not their original intent, but (predictably) thats what it became

And you can see the results, abortion rates since that time have gone through the roof, so much so that even some seclar-liberals are getting 'concerned' wondering why the abortion rate is so high despite the easy availablity of contraception and sex education.

I do find it interesting how certain feminists who wax lyrical about a womens right to choose and that no one should interfere etc etc, get uptight when women from different parts of the world make the wrong choices. (Obviously I'm against female foeticide).

 

[Trumble]

Your ideology, or shall I say Athiests ideology is about promoting freedom of choice I assume?

I am a Buddhist (who also happens to be an atheist). Buddhism is a religion and a philosophy not an ideology but we don't generally approve of abortion, no. I also agree there is a certain level of hypocrisy in finding abortion acceptable in some circumstances but not in others, although I think my last suggested the issue is rather more complicated than some would like to think.

Anyway, atheism is not an ideology, either. It is simply a belief that there is no God. It neither carries nor implies any moral opinions at all, nor any opinions on promoting freedom of choice, or otherwise. There are 'pro'-abortion atheists and anti-abortion atheists. Ditto on political ideologies. Or hunting whales. Or building nuclear power stations. Pacifists and warmongers. Palestinian freedom fighters and Mossad agents. Humanitarians and tyrannical dictators. You name it, you'll find atheists in both camps and anything in between. All I'm trying to say, or ask, is not to dump a whole load of moral baggage on the label atheist or assume people who are atheists hold particular opinions on any issue other than one - whether God exists.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Where did I actualy state I support abortion though? You can't assume all atheists agree with abortion and point out where the large numbers of atheists are on this thread that are supporting abortion?

Surely you don't agree with aborting babies because of their gender? This thread is about that topic and not abortion in general.

Well, if it's too bad for the female foetuses then that's too bad for the men who suddenly find there are few women and they have to look after their own houses.

where did I say you support abortion? Where did I say I am referring to ALL atheists? You need to wake up while reading posts.