Florida Church to HOld Qur'an Burning!

[جوري]

Christians haven't been able to separate themselves from their dark ages, though they feign civility.. they are simply practicing what they have all along:

The Burning of the Library at Alexandria

Theophilus, God love him, is the Christian most often associated with the definitive act of destruction of ancient wisdom, the Burning of The Library at Alexandria. We cannot, however, be fully certain that there was either a single definitive library at Alexandria at this time or a single definitive act of arson.
There is no doubt that Christians under Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, there were committed acts of the utmost heinousness, following the instructions of Emperor Theodosius. Pagan temples were ransacked, looted and defiled. During this time Theophilus attacked and destroyed the Serapeum, home of at least part of the library of Alexandria. Also the Museum, literally THE original and definitive museum, temple of the muses, was destroyed by Theophilus's Christian mob.
The great library at Alexandria was a collection of the knowledge and written culture of the entire known world. Under the decree of Ptolemy III all visitors to the city were required to give up any written material they had in their possession to the library scribes who would make a copy for the library, or rather a copy for the original owner and the original for the library. This was the mechanism by which there came to be assembled the greatest collection of human knowledge in the ancient world. By the time of Theophilus the library had been collecting scrolls, papyruses and codices for over five hundred years and it was widely regarded as by far the largest and most complete record of human knowledge ever assembled. Civilized men build, stock and use libraries. Alexandria was a civilized Hellenic Pagan city taken over by an uncivilized Christian mob.

The burning of books is never the activity of civilized men. It is a crime against humanity, and more, it is a crime against posterity. It is an act that can never be forgiven.
Civilized men do not burn books. Tyrants and fanatics burn books.
(Books defined above as being the only extant copies of a work, surplus copies are just bits of paper, regardless of their content.)

To attack culture, knowledge, science and wisdom of the ancient world as it was stored in the greatest collection of books ever assembled was an act that transcends the power of our language to condemn. All the words we have to describe such acts and to express our disapproval are fundamentally flawed, they suggest that such acts are beyond the capacity of “civilized Christians”.
Vandalism. Barbarism. Philistinism. Such words are tragically wide of the mark. There is only one word which can express the nature of such an act: Christian.

source

 

[espada]

This is just motivation to memorize the Quran.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Although this is stupid and insensitive it is not illegal. So long as they came by the books they are burning by legal means. It is freedom of expression. I feel the same way about burning the American (or other nation's) flag. I think the best response to these jackasses is the same as the best response to the Fred Phelps' of the world. Ridicule them, marginalize them, and don't give them what they want (an out of proportion reaction proving the stereotype of muslims they push). The WORST reaction would be to have muslims appearing in the media screaming hate right back at these people.

I think it would be cool if some prominent muslims came out in the media and rather than going visceral, shook their head and expressed pitty for these people dismissing these Quran burners as sad deranged souls. Show them that Islam is the cooler head here. It'd totally make their message backfire.

What Glo posted is what I'm talking about, that is the way to go. Show them that these book burners (rather than muslims) are the haters hate is THEM and not the muslims. Their message will backfire and people may actually come to be sympathetic with muslims and some may even convert. This happened post-9/11 when so many were so unfairly visceral against muslims. I know many folks who saw that, sympathized with the muslims and wanted to investigate Islam because of it. One of them is now a muslim (who I debate with regularly).

I know a lot of people on this board don't like it, but the fact is that in the west we are in a religious media war in regards to Islam. Certain people are interested in painting all muslims as rabid terrorists, and many are buying into their message. Events such as this one is an opportunity to shoot back the opposite message.

god, you are full of wisdom. i mean forgive me for thinking that non-Muslims would go ape if Muslims insulted their beliefs and way's of life only to for us to turn around and expect all calmness.

 

[titus]

i mean forgive me for thinking that non-Muslims would go ape if Muslims insulted their beliefs and way's of life only to for us to turn around and expect all calmness.

Muslims insult other religions and beliefs all the time, just as people insult Islam all the time.

Calmness, by the way, is the worst thing that the offenders can be met with (in their mind). Their whole intention is to provoke a reaction, so the thing that would upset them the most would be to be met with complete apathy.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Muslims insult other religions and beliefs all the time, just as people insult Islam all the time.

dramatization. i cannot recall a Muslim insulting someone else's faith (trust me, we wouldnt hear the end of it)...the only time i do recall is as a result of a non-Muslim insulting Islam...

 

[titus]

dramatization. i cannot recall a Muslim insulting someone else's faith

Taliban destroys Buddhist statues all over the country claiming it is their duty.

Just today a Muslim member on this forum claimed that Hinduism isn't even a religion.

Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak Saturday quoted from the Quran to urge fellow Muslims not to insult people of other faiths, after residents of a Muslim-majority area, protesting re-location of a Hindu temple to their locality, carried cow heads in a rally Friday.

source

More than once on these forums I have seen Muslims claim that the Torah teaches that sexually molesting children is permitted, among other lies that were pretty insulting about the Jewish faith.

Or you can find a Muslim arguing that it is the duty of a Muslim to destroy idols of other religions

Example

You also may find that Muslim tend not to insult Christianity or Judasim much, but that is mostly because they share so many things in common. Other religions, though, are often fair game.

These are all examples of Muslims insulting others beliefs, just as much as or more than drawing a cartoon or burning a book.

 

[Ramadhan]

Orlando-based Pastor Joel Hunter of Northland, A Church Distributed, who is a member of the NAE Board of Directors, commented, “We have to recognize that fighting fire with fire only builds a bigger fire.”

“Love is the water that will eventually quench the destruction,” he said.

So who's this "fire" this hillarious pastor referred to? Islam?
LOL.

And who was he referring to as "destruction"?

I find christian leaders and their words amusing.

 

[Woodrow]

I have been giving this thread some serious thought over the past few hours and just realized something. Because of Terry Jones and his Dove Church, many people who had never heard of Islam are now aware of us.

What a fantastic opportunity we have to show what we really are and dispel many of the lies told about us.

Mr. Jones has managed to get Islam seen deep in the heart of the Bible belt that has had a closed door to even the name Islam. I believe that now virtually everybody in the Gainesville area is now aware we exist. Some of those will most likely now want to learn more about us.

 

[Ramadhan]

I also find this very amusing from the same source:

"Yet the Bible says that Christians should ‘make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else’ (I Thessalonians 5:15).”

They would not know hypocrisy if it slaps them round the head and bulldozes over them.

 

[Pygoscelis]

What a fantastic opportunity we have to show what we really are and dispel many of the lies told about us.

Exactly Woodrow, this is my point. Meet it with a calm rational and dare I say loving response. Pity those who live in hate and pray for them. And thereby make a difference in the hearts and minds of those who have been media brainwashed into seeing muslims as bloodthirsty terrorists.

 

[glo]

Greetings, naidamar

It's interesting that you make this comment.
I wonder how often people argue against each other, simply because they aren't familiar with each others language and terminology ...

It's also interesting that you seem to read a criticism of Islam into those comments, when they are not intended at all. (I guess that's what happens when we don't understand each other's language. We apply our own understanding and interpretation to it.)

Orlando-based Pastor Joel Hunter of Northland, A Church Distributed, who is a member of the NAE Board of Directors, commented, “We have to recognize that fighting fire with fire only builds a bigger fire.”

“Love is the water that will eventually quench the destruction,” he said.

So who's this "fire" this hillarious pastor referred to? Islam?
LOL.

And who was he referring to as "destruction"?

I find christian leaders and their words amusing.

When Joel Hunter talks about 'fighting fire with fire building a bigger fire', he refers to tit-for-tat retaliations, which will escalate and cause greater and greater destruction (For example rifts between faiths and within communities, greater hate and distrust against each other, demonstrations and clashes, possibly worse ...)

What he saying is that if this church go ahead with the burning of the Qu'ran, it will lead to reactions from the Muslim communities - which it turn will lead to more negative reactions from non-Muslims - which in turn will cause a negative response in Muslims ... etc etc
That's what he means by 'building a bigger fire'. (And big fires cause big destructions)



What Joel Hunter is saying is that we should fight that fire with water instead - i.e respond in a way which will have the opposite effect.

Replace 'fire' with 'hatred' and 'water' with 'love', and it becomes very clear.

Add hatred to hatred, and you will have more hatred.
Respond to hatred with love, and the hatred will have no foothold for growth.

If, for example, Muslims and non-Muslims (as suggested) come together on 9/11 to share a meal and share passages from their holy books with each other, they will be the water which will quench the flames Dove Church is trying to kindle!

If, however, people start to get aggressive and respond like-for-like, the flames Dove Church has raised will turn into a huge fire!

Sometimes turning the other cheek is simply more effective than a-tooth-for-a-tooth ...

 

[Ramadhan]

Greetings, naidamar

It's interesting that you make this comment.
I wonder how often people argue against each other, simply because they aren't familiar with each others language and terminology ...

I understood fully what it means.
Thanks for being so preachy.

When Joel Hunter talks about 'fighting fire with fire building a bigger fire', he refers to tit-for-tat retaliations, which will escalate and cause greater and greater destruction (For example rifts between faiths and within communities, greater hate and distrust against each other, demonstrations and clashes, possibly worse ...)

I got this too, btw.
he did say "fire with fire", and he clealry insinuated that Islam did something wrong first.
So again, which "fire" that joel hunter thought shouldn't be fought with fire?
9/11? or what?
we are not talking about trinity here, no need to be vague.

What he saying is that if this church go ahead with the burning of the Qu'ran, it will lead to reactions from the Muslim communities - which it turn will lead to more negative reactions from non-Muslims - which in turn will cause a negative response in Muslims ... etc etc
That's what he means by 'building a bigger fire'.

If that is really what he meant, he should have said "we must not start fire", instead of "we should not fight fire with fire"
because that is what the dove church is really going to do: starting fire, instead of fighting fire.

Sometimes turning the other cheek is simply more effective than a-tooth-for-a-tooth ..

Sadly, this quality has been lacking among american christians.
(case in point: reaction after 9/11)

 

[Danah]

I have been giving this thread some serious thought over the past few hours and just realized something. Because of Terry Jones and his Dove Church, many people who had never heard of Islam are now aware of us.

What a fantastic opportunity we have to show what we really are and dispel many of the lies told about us.

Mr. Jones has managed to get Islam seen deep in the heart of the Bible belt that has had a closed door to even the name Islam. I believe that now virtually everybody in the Gainesville area is now aware we exist. Some of those will most likely now want to learn more about us.

Exactly! This is what I was talking about in my previous post #39. You said it better!

This whole thing remind me of what happened few months ago when they were trying to ban minarets in Switzerland and at the end we got one of those who made the decision as new brother to us that reverted to Islam. Isn't that amazing? SubhanAllah this religion is amazing ! The more haters try to attack it, the more people like it!

The same thing happened in 9/11!

 

[glo]

I understood fully what it means.
Thanks for being so preachy.

Now I'm confused. If you knew what it meant, why did you ask the question? :?

 

[glo]

What a fantastic opportunity we have to show what we really are and dispel many of the lies told about us.

Mr. Jones has managed to get Islam seen deep in the heart of the Bible belt that has had a closed door to even the name Islam. I believe that now virtually everybody in the Gainesville area is now aware we exist. Some of those will most likely now want to learn more about us.

I think that is very true, and I hope this negative situation can be turned into a positive result.

People making an effort to come together and share food and their beliefs with each other may just be one of those positive outcomes. Hopefully it will lead to greater understanding and respect for each other, to friendship and interfaith working, to striving to make this world a better and more peaceful place - and yes, possibly to finding truth in each other's faith too.

 

[Amat Allah]

Indeed, Allah may support this religion (i.e. Islam) even with a disobedient man...Praise be to Allah...

Subhaan Allah , Allah has His own amazing methods and plans to make this Deen prevail...

 

[Raaina]

Can you imagine if UK muslims started doing something like this.

The EDL would have a field day!

 

[Ramadhan]

Now I'm confused. If you knew what it meant, why did you ask the question? :?

Go back and read my question again.

I did not ask what the question mean. I asked who that joel hunter referred to as the "first" fire in "fighting fire(1) with fire (2)".

Surely he intended the second "fire" to be the action of qur'an burning by dove church.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

Taliban destroys Buddhist statues all over the country claiming it is their duty.

yes , that was a sad incident

Just today a Muslim member on this forum claimed that Hinduism isn't even a religion.

in any religion forum , u will find that people of one faith is trying to prove that other faiths are wrong . it's not that only Muslims are doing it.

I have seen Muslims claim that the Torah teaches that sexually molesting children is permitted,

Media normally condemn the young marriage of Mother Aisha ra. U will find thousands / million nasty posts about the marriage. But u will never heard criticism from media that Jewish holy book allows marriage of 3 years old girl.

among other lies that were pretty insulting about the Jewish faith.

like what ?

 

[glo]

I did not ask what the question mean. I asked who that joel hunter referred to as the "first" fire in "fighting fire(1) with fire (2)".

Surely he intended the second "fire" to be the action of qur'an burning by dove church.

Well, given that Dove Church are planning their Qu'ran burning day on 9/11, the anniversary of the attack on the Twin Towers, it may be that the 'first fire' is the perceived attack of Muslim terrorists on the non-Muslim world. Whether rightly or wrongly, we have to accept that that's how many people perceive it - even now, after all these years. It will take a long time for that perception to disappear, if ever it does completely ...

However, I do not know whether that's what Joel Hunter is talking about, or whether he perceives the 'first fire' to be the Qu'ran burning, and the 'second fire' - which he is trying to preempt and prevent - any retaliation from some Muslims.

Either view is possible, and I cannot say which view Joel Hunter holds. We would have to ask him that question directly.

Either way, can you see and perhaps even respect his intentions to try and prevent any further rift between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities, and a desire to counteract the hatred and animosity which seems to come from Dove Church?
I hope you do, because that is the important part of the article I posted, as far as I am concerned: how to deal with hate-mongers and how to overcome hatred and anger with kindness and love.

Perhaps the important question is not "Who started it?" (Isn't that what little children say? 'It wasn't me! S/he started it!!') ... but "How can we nip it in the bud, before it gets out of hand?"