for the agnostic members...

[syilla]

I consider myself to be agnostic but after reading this I am not so sure. I guess I just have a different view of it so here is what I think. There is a god and there is a devil. There is a heaven and there is a hell. I always try to be a good person. I help those who need help. I love those who need to be loved. I am kind to those who need kindness. There are so many different religions out there and they all say that they are right and the others are wrong. Who am I to say which one is really the right one? What if I chose the wrong one? I can only hope that if I die today that god will see that I am trying to honor him in the only way I know how and that is by beliveing that he is real and by being a good person. As for talking to him- I thank him out loud and in my head daily for giving me a beatuiful son who is healthy and a loving husband that takes care of both of us. I ask him to watch over those who are sick and need help. And I ask for his protection against all of the evils in the world. If not for myself then to at least protect my son when I can not. Ok so I am crying now so explanation over. Hope this answers your questions.

InshaAllah...when you're sincerely finding Allah subhanahuwata'ala...you will find the true religion. May Allah give you hidayaah and found islam. ameen.

 

[snakelegs]

Re: The way of life and daily practise

i know that atheists dnt believe in god...but i thought agnostics didnt believe in god either. like even when u look up the meaning of agnostic, it will tell u that agnostics believ that that there is no theory or explanation behind philosophical and theological theories, including the existence of god...they believe that its not known.do u consider urself an orthodox agnostic or half half?

hi,
an agnostic is simply someone who doesn't know. i believe in god but i think there are many things we simply do not/cannot know. some agnostics don't believe in god and some do. most of my life i didn't really have a postition one way or the other and spent very little time thinking about god at all.
there is no such thing as an orthodox agnostic - i think the only thing agnostics would agree on is that ultimately we cannot know the unknowable and that is ok.
personally, i cannot conceive of god belonging to any religion or that any religion could have a monopoly on god.

 

[mansaf]

I think most people are agnostic if you take that word in its literal sense.

Pretty much all atheists are agnostic, as they'll admit they are not 100% certain that there is no God or Gods. I think most theists are also agnostic and only the hard core ones have no doubt whatsoever as to the existence of their God.

So the question "how do agnostics worship?" is really not answerable, for some worship and some don't, and those who do don't do it in the same ways.

Let us suppose that an agnostic believe in 50% tha god exists and 50% that god does not exist.

Then out of the 50% chance that god exists, lets suppose there is a 50% chance that you can worship god free style and 50% chance that you must follow a certain religion to avoid hell.

So should not this agnostic try to search for the truth in order to avoid 25% chance of going to hell? In other words, religion must be taken seriously, and worshipping god free style might not be enough.

 

[wilberhum]

If you want 50-50 odds, go to a book maker.
There are two possibilities, god does, or god does not exist. That is not the same as 50-50 odds.
If one of the main reasons you question the existence of god is because everyone has different rules, where do you go to get the correct rules.

As for me, I think the major reason all religions were created had nothing to do with god. So I can’t go to any religion to find out how things should be done.

I think of god as a good and loving parent. He wants to be loved and respected.
He would care less about when, where, or how it is done.

 

[mansaf]

If you want 50-50 odds, go to a book maker.
There are two possibilities, god does, or god does not exist. That is not the same as 50-50 odds.
If one of the main reasons you question the existence of god is because everyone has different rules, where do you go to get the correct rules.

As for me, I think the major reason all religions were created had nothing to do with god. So I can’t go to any religion to find out how things should be done.

I think of god as a good and loving parent. He wants to be loved and respected.
He would care less about when, where, or how it is done.

that is valid if you believe in whatever you believe 100%. can you prove what you are saying is 100% right? now you sound like a person with a religion that says you can worship god free style.

you are not really agnostic if you believe 100% that you can worship god free style. if you do not believe 100% then why are you ignoring the other part of the probabilty (i.e. that you might have to worship god in a certain way to avoid hell)?

 

[wilberhum]

that is valid if you believe in whatever you believe 100%. can you prove what you are saying is 100% right? now you sound like a person with a religion that says you can worship god free style.

you are not really agnostic if you believe 100% that you can worship god free style. if you do not believe 100% then why are you ignoring the other part of the probabilty (i.e. that you might have to worship god in a certain way to avoid hell)?

I think it is more probable that god exists. No place close to 100%.

Some people think the way to avoid hell and go to heaven is to go kill other people by blowing themselves up.

As for me, I’ll just say “thanks for a nice day”.

If he exists, he will here me.

If he doesn’t, then is doesn’t matter.

 

[mansaf]

I think it is more probable that god exists. No place close to 100%.

Some people think the way to avoid hell and go to heaven is to go kill other people by blowing themselves up.

As for me, I’ll just say “thanks for a nice day”.

If he exists, he will here me.

If he doesn’t, then is doesn’t matter.

Again, there is still the chance that you have to follow a religion in order to avoid hell.

And please do not judge Islam by the actions of fool people. Those terrorists do not represent islam and we all muslims along with Quran and Sunnah denounce their actions.

 

[Malaikah]

I think of god as a good and loving parent. He wants to be loved and respected.
He would care less about when, where, or how it is done.

Something I don't understand about agnostics, perhaps you can help clear this up for me...

They will say they don't believe in religion etc, and yet they have some kind of understanding of what God is and what He wants. But only someone taught by divine inspiration can know what God is/wants...

On what authority do you claim to know what God is/wants, and how is this different to what you view as fake religions (which, essentially, are based on people who also claim to know what God is/wants)?

 

[mariam.]

I consider myself to be agnostic but after reading this I am not so sure. I guess I just have a different view of it so here is what I think. There is a god and there is a devil. There is a heaven and there is a hell. I always try to be a good person. I help those who need help. I love those who need to be loved. I am kind to those who need kindness. There are so many different religions out there and they all say that they are right and the others are wrong. Who am I to say which one is really the right one? What if I chose the wrong one? I can only hope that if I die today that god will see that I am trying to honor him in the only way I know how and that is by beliveing that he is real and by being a good person. As for talking to him- I thank him out loud and in my head daily for giving me a beatuiful son who is healthy and a loving husband that takes care of both of us. I ask him to watch over those who are sick and need help. And I ask for his protection against all of the evils in the world. If not for myself then to at least protect my son when I can not. Ok so I am crying now so explanation over. Hope this answers your questions.

Hi tomtomsmom .. I hope you are right
I don't know why your words make me cry .. Maybe becouse it's proceed from honest heart ...
I can't said any thing except this Quranic verse:
"And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way."
I hope you try to read Quran .. have you ever read it?
finally .. I hope you read this hadith:
in a sacred hadith: the Prophet peace be upon him mentioned that Allah said: “Myself, Mankind and Jinn are in a great serious state. I create them, then they worship other gods that they make for themselves; I bless them with my bounties, then they thank someone else for what I sent them; My Mercy descends to them while their evil deeds ascend to Me; I endear them with my gifts even though I have no need to any of them while they alienate themselves from Me with their sins even though they are desperate for my help. Whoever returns to Me, I accept him no matter how far he is; and whoever turns away from Me, I approach him and call on him. Whoever leaves a sin for my sake, I reward him with many gifts and whoever seeks to please Me, I seek to please him. Whoever acknowledges My Will and Power in whatever he does, I make the iron bend for his sake. My dear people are those who are with Me (i.e. whoever would like to be with Me, let him supplicate to Me and remember Me). Whoever thanks Me, I grant him more blessings; whoever obeys Me, I raise him and endear him more. Whoever disobeys Me, I keep the doors of My Mercy open for him; if he returns to Me, I bestow him with My Love since I love those who repent and purify themselves for My Sake. If he does not repent, I still treat him by putting them in hardship to purify him. Whoever favors Me over others, I favor them over others. I reward every single good deed ten times over or seven hundred times over to countless times over. I count every single bad deed as one unless the person repents and ask for My Forgiveness in which case I forgive even that one. I take into account any little good deed and I forgive even major sins. My Mercy supersedes My Anger; My Tolerance supersedes My Blame; My Forgiveness supersedes My Punishment as I am more merciful with My slaves than a mother with her child."
may God make you from his pious servants that he loves them .. peace

 

[tomtomsmom]

Hi tomtomsmom .. I hope you are right
I don't know why your words make me cry .. Maybe becouse it's proceed from honest heart ...
I can't said any thing except this Quranic verse:
"And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way."
I hope you try to read Quran .. have you ever read it?
finally .. I hope you read this hadith:
in a sacred hadith: the Prophet peace be upon him mentioned that Allah said: “Myself, Mankind and Jinn are in a great serious state. I create them, then they worship other gods that they make for themselves; I bless them with my bounties, then they thank someone else for what I sent them; My Mercy descends to them while their evil deeds ascend to Me; I endear them with my gifts even though I have no need to any of them while they alienate themselves from Me with their sins even though they are desperate for my help. Whoever returns to Me, I accept him no matter how far he is; and whoever turns away from Me, I approach him and call on him. Whoever leaves a sin for my sake, I reward him with many gifts and whoever seeks to please Me, I seek to please him. Whoever acknowledges My Will and Power in whatever he does, I make the iron bend for his sake. My dear people are those who are with Me (i.e. whoever would like to be with Me, let him supplicate to Me and remember Me). Whoever thanks Me, I grant him more blessings; whoever obeys Me, I raise him and endear him more. Whoever disobeys Me, I keep the doors of My Mercy open for him; if he returns to Me, I bestow him with My Love since I love those who repent and purify themselves for My Sake. If he does not repent, I still treat him by putting them in hardship to purify him. Whoever favors Me over others, I favor them over others. I reward every single good deed ten times over or seven hundred times over to countless times over. I count every single bad deed as one unless the person repents and ask for My Forgiveness in which case I forgive even that one. I take into account any little good deed and I forgive even major sins. My Mercy supersedes My Anger; My Tolerance supersedes My Blame; My Forgiveness supersedes My Punishment as I am more merciful with My slaves than a mother with her child."
may God make you from his pious servants that he loves them .. peace

I am sorry sister, I do not mean to make you cry, but what you say is true. If words are not spoken from the heart then they are not worth being said. Yes I have been reading the Quran. It is slow going but I try. That is a very beautiful Hadith. Thank you for sharing that with me.

 

[wilberhum]

Again, there is still the chance that you have to follow a religion in order to avoid hell.

And please do not judge Islam by the actions of fool people. Those terrorists do not represent islam and we all muslims along with Quran and Sunnah denounce their actions.

Sure there is a chance that you have to follow a religion. I think there is much more of a chance that you don't. I don't think god expects anything other that being a good and thankfull person.
And I don't judge anyone based on the actions of others just because they have something in comon.

 

[wilberhum]

Something I don't understand about agnostics, perhaps you can help clear this up for me...

They will say they don't believe in religion etc, and yet they have some kind of understanding of what God is and what He wants. But only someone taught by divine inspiration can know what God is/wants...

On what authority do you claim to know what God is/wants, and how is this different to what you view as fake religions (which, essentially, are based on people who also claim to know what God is/wants)?

I don't beleive anyone KNOWS what god wants. I sure don't. I can only make, what I concider, logical assumptions. I don't beleive ANYONE is divinely inspired.
I hope that helps you understand. If you still don't understand, send me a PM or email.

 

[glo]

I don't believe anyone KNOWS what god wants. I sure don't. I can only make, what I concider, logical assumptions. I don't beleive ANYONE is divinely inspired.
I hope that helps you understand. If you still don't understand, send me a PM or email.

Hi Wilberhum

You make a good point, and I happen to agree with you.

I am a Christians, and thereby I firmly believe in Christian teaching.
The Bible gives certain explanations and descriptions of God: what he is (i.e. the trinity), and how he is (i.e. characteristics, such as his love and forgiveness, his stance on sin etc. )

Although this gives us some pointers to who God is, I could never ever assume to know God's plans, or even to fully know God.
God, by definition, is outside the sphere of human knowledge and understanding.

I know people who claim to know God.
I find that attitude dangerous! When people start to think they know God anything can happen!

If nothing else, is claiming to know God not arrogant and proud? Does it not fly in the face of humility (which all monotheisitc religions teach)?
The Fall in the garden of Eden, and the story of the Tower of Babel describe situations, when people tried to do just that: become more knowing than God himself. And God's action in those situations makes very clear that that is not an attitude he likes to see!

I think it would be better to say 'God, I don't understand who you are or what you want, but I am willing to let you show me', than to say 'God, I know what you want, and I am just going out to do it ...'

Because I think that, my husband thinks I am an agnostic Christian.
I quite like that description.
I love God, and I am willing to follow him and serve him to the best of my knowledge - and I will (hopefully) never put myself higher than him.

Perhaps some agnostics do better than some tough 'religious types' who are so sure of themselves, they forget to pay attention to God's presence and guidance in the process.

Rant over ...

Peace

 

[mariam.]

I am sorry sister, I do not mean to make you cry, but what you say is true. If words are not spoken from the heart then they are not worth being said. Yes I have been reading the Quran. It is slow going but I try. That is a very beautiful Hadith. Thank you for sharing that with me.

your welcome .. Iam pleased to do so
take care of yourself
peace

 

[wilberhum]

Glo,
You make many good points and explain them well.
Good on You.

Wilber

 

[syilla]

Islamic definition of worship

Worship in Islam has so many facets that it is difficult to describe them all in words. The most general meaning of worship in Islam is inclusive of everything which is pleasing to God, whether they deal with issues of belief, or deeds of the body. It may include everything a person perceives, thinks, intends, feels, says and does. It also refers to everything that God requires, external, internal or interactive. This includes rituals as well as beliefs, work, social activities, and personal behavior, as human being is a whole, such that every part affects every other.
Worship may be classified into two types:
1) Specific Beliefs, feelings and visible acts of devotion paid in homage to God which He has commanded.
2) All other acts of goodness generally encouraged in the life of a Muslim.

source

 

[glo]

Islamic definition of worship

Worship in Islam has so many facets that it is difficult to describe them all in words. The most general meaning of worship in Islam is inclusive of everything which is pleasing to God, whether they deal with issues of belief, or deeds of the body. It may include everything a person perceives, thinks, intends, feels, says and does. It also refers to everything that God requires, external, internal or interactive. This includes rituals as well as beliefs, work, social activities, and personal behavior, as human being is a whole, such that every part affects every other.
Worship may be classified into two types:
1) Specific Beliefs, feelings and visible acts of devotion paid in homage to God which He has commanded.
2) All other acts of goodness generally encouraged in the life of a Muslim.

Greetings, syilla

I think if you replace Islam and Muslim in the above post with Christianity and Christian, it would be just as true a statement.

Christians worship God in many ways - through prayer, song and Bible reading ... but also by serving and doing good to others; in words, thoughts and deeds.
In truth, God deserves our focus and attention every waking moment of the day.

Peace

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace to you all, a very interesting thread, with some good points.

I suppose I was very much agnostic for around thirty years believing in God and acknowledging him every once in a while.

About ten years ago I was talking about God to my brother in law and why did he believe.

His answer was very simple and it still drives me today, he said if you believe in God then you have to do something.

He did not say what I had to do and that was left to me, but over the years I have come to understand that you show your trust in God by what you are prepared to do in his name.

Faith in God is a journey always one day at a time, some times our faith is strong, and some days we have grave doubts and insecurities about God. Faith is striving to overcome these doubts always one day at a time through our actions.

If and only if God the creator of the universe exists fully and totally then he has to be the most important thing in our lives because our destiny is finally in his hands.

In the spirit of searching and striving,

Eric

 

[Pygoscelis]

when it comes down to it "agnostic" is a very poorly defined term, as is "atheist". Different people have different definitions.

Many theists define atheists as "People who deny god" or "people who believe go doesn't exist". Most self-proclaimed atheists define atheists as "people who lack a belief in god". Subtle but important difference that leads to a lot of silly semantic quabbles.

Agnostic is similar. Some will say it means "not 100% certain", but I think that applies to most if not all of us. There are those who say it means "unsure". There are those who are really atheists but don't want to say so because of the lack of social acceptance of atheists. And then there are those more hardcore who define it as "a belief that one CAN NOT KNOW" if there is a God or not. I think the last one is the classical definition.

 

[Agnostic]

Gee! This post is about me!!!!
OK its not.
I call myself an agnostic because I don't subscribe to any one religion. I have a problem with believing that one is right and others are wrong sort of the "US and Them" syndrome that seems to cause a lot of problems in our world.
I have friends that are very religious and I feel that if it works for them great its just not for me. As for believing in God I guess I must believe to a certain point because a while ago a good Friend died of cancer and I found myself angry with God, how can you be angry with something that doesn't exist?
I guess my dilemma is that I'm Absolutely Positively not sure