found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

[Ramadhan]

Very interesting read. Here in the Netherlands it's almost impossible to criticize homosexuality (it's probably the same in other western countries). When you're debating with westerners and tell them that you're not against homosexual individuals, but against homosexuality, they still won't accept it. They defend homosexuality as if it were a religion sent by God.

Very true.
In western countries, as soon as you criticize and oppose homosexuality, you are
being called and labeled as "homophobe!".
Just like when anyone criticize state of Israel, they will be soon called as "anti semite!" and vilified.

 

[Italianguy]

Very true.
In western countries, as soon as you criticize and oppose homosexuality, you are
being called and labeled as "homophobe!".
Just like when anyone criticize state of Israel, they will be soon called as "anti semite!" and vilified.

I am gooing to be a little overly tact for the first time here.

I agree, isn't it so bad how we as Christians and Muslims are suppossed to tiptoe around this subject so as not to hurt their feelings or be labeled a racist? I hate that! There is NO SUCH THING as gay being a type of race!!! So there is no way to be racist against them, they are sick twisted individuals, and I will be ****ed if I am going to tiptoe around them!:raging: I don't care what anyone says about it! Homos are wrong! It is not ok to be gay! It is a major sin. And a choice!! They choose to be gay! It's discusting! +o(

Don't worry what they think anymore. Don't tiptoe around them so as not to hurt their feelings. They need help!

Call me a homophobe I DON"T CARE! I hate when homos make it seem as If God made them that way:heated:. They shouldn't be allowed to say the word ga* and God in the same sentance!

Okay sorry, I'm done.

God be with them they need Him!

 

[cat eyes]

:wa:yeah i am not going to tiptoe around this subject either, i could not care less what they think. those people who are only muslim by name and see nothing wrong in being gay are slowly poisoning this beautiful ummah and i wont sit back and watch that happen

 

[Argamemnon]

:wa:yeah i am not going to tiptoe around this subject either, i could not care less what they think. those people who are only muslim by name and see nothing wrong in being gay are slowly poisoning this beautiful ummah and i wont sit back and watch that happen

salam,

which muslims see "nothing wrong in homosexuality"? i don't believe there are such muslims.

 

[cat eyes]

salam,

which muslims see "nothing wrong in homosexuality"? i don't believe there are such muslims.

yeah brother i mean the ones who only hold the name muslim but there actions clearly dont show that they are muslim

 

[Supreme]

yeah brother i mean the ones who only hold the name muslim but there actions clearly dont show that they are muslim

I thought being Muslim one had to follow the Five Pillars? The Five Pillars mention nothing on homosexuality.

 

[Ramadhan]

I thought being Muslim one had to follow the Five Pillars? The Five Pillars mention nothing on homosexuality.

The five pillars are the list of things that you must perform/do, but that is not enough.
You also have to believe in the 6 rukoon eeman (the six basic faiths)n which include absolute faith/believe in the Qur'an.
Now, the Qur'an clearly absolutely without a shred of doubt says that homosexual act is among the most abominable sin and tells the story of the people of luth (loot) pbuh and how Allah SWT punished them severely for their homosexual acts.
There is no difference of interpretations among ulemas as the verses are as clear as daylight (well, unless you ask those so called "gay muslim").

Hence, you really can't be a muslim and think homosexuality is okay.

 

[Seeker1066]

Well, the trend in this thread is ignoring the OP and labeling people with phobia, bigotry, etc... This is neither a rebuttal nor addressing the points in a meaningful way. So I guess they can't.

That's all that's left when trying to debunk truth.

Peace to all

 

[Seeker1066]

Very true.
In western countries, as soon as you criticize and oppose homosexuality, you are
being called and labeled as "homophobe!".
Just like when anyone criticize state of Israel, they will be soon called as "anti semite!" and vilified.

Exactly political correctness exists to defend the indefensible by accusing the one who points out error.

Peace to all

 

[M.A.S.H.]

Same sex unions don't hurt anyone. Traditional families remain unaffected. If anything, gay marriage affect the sociology of homosexual relationships, which probably is the primary cause to promiscuity, higher rates of certain diseases etc mentioned in the first post.
One cannot be sure when it comes to adoptions though. However most relevant studies not tied to religious institutions showed little or no difference in children raised in same-sex families.

 

[Ishaaq]

Same sex unions don't hurt anyone.

They certain hurt the people of Sadum (Sodom)!

 

[جوري]

Same sex unions don't hurt anyone.

Neither do incestuous relationships!

Traditional families remain unaffected.

Traditional families are affected in many ways, refer to the article on the first page!

If anything, gay marriage affect the sociology of homosexual relationships, which probably is the primary cause to promiscuity, higher rates of certain diseases etc mentioned in the first post.

And this is good?

One cannot be sure when it comes to adoptions though. However most relevant studies not tied to religious institutions showed little or no difference in children raised in same-sex families.

None of the studies in the original page have anything to do with religion, save their compilation on a religious site!

all the best

 

[M.A.S.H.]

Neither do incestuous relationships!
Traditional families are affected in many ways, refer to the article on the first page!

None of the studies in the original page have anything to do with religion, save their compilation on a religious site!

all the best

I don't think psychlogy treats incestous relationships the same way it treats homosexual ones. Incest is essentially creating a bond where another bond exists.
The German example because the couple didn't knw each other and they should be allowed to marry.
The article doesn't really say how homo unions affect hetero unions. It doesn't quote any studies to back it up, it only assumes gay marriage hurts traditional marriage.
The part about children quotes a study by a Christian institute.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

It is a major sin. And a choice!! They choose to be gay!

So when did all of you CHOOSE to be heterosexual?

I never made a "choice" I've always been hetero. That is the way I was born. As long as I can remember, I have been attracted to women. Did you all choose to be straight? The gay people I know tell me that they never made a "choice" to be gay. That is the way they were born.

Where am I wrong?

:wa:

 

[جوري]

I don't think psychlogy treats incestous relationships the same way it treats homosexual ones. Incest is essentially creating a bond where another bond exists.
The German example because the couple didn't knw each other and they should be allowed to marry.
The article doesn't really say how homo unions affect hetero unions. It doesn't quote any studies to back it up, it only assumes gay marriage hurts traditional marriage.
The part about children quotes a study by a Christian institute.

Psychology 'treated' homosexuality the same way it 'treated' other acts of sexual deviance up to the seventies.. and it was in fact a crime even in the west to engage in sodomy.. you have to wonder why certain groups lobby more than others to practice lewdness, be that as it may, the German couple will certainly not be the first of their kind, whenever you strip science of ethics you are sure to create many situations of that nature..

Many folks who donate their sperm or eggs in fact run the risk that their children will marry their siblings in the future, so at some point we'll be looking for an equal push to make ok incestuous relations as we see homosexual ones.

Homo unions affect traditional families in many ways..
when you teach five years olds about the two male penguins in love

you should also teach them about gay bowel syndrome and how it is costing their parents as well other traditional families millions in health-care dollars!

all the best

 

[جوري]

So when did all of you CHOOSE to be heterosexual?

I never made a "choice" I've always been hetero. That is the way I was born. As long as I can remember, I have been attracted to women. Did you all choose to be straight? The gay people I know tell me that they never made a "choice" to be gay. That is the way they were born.

Where am I wrong?

:wa:

You CHOOSE who you bed. certainly you don't jump every attractive woman you see simply because you are attracted to her?

They might indeed have homosexual inclinations, as many have inclinations for sinful things.. Succumbing to lowly desires or overcoming them, makes all the difference!

No one is born homo or hetero, your sexual desires start during puberty!

all the best

 

[M.A.S.H.]

You CHOOSE who you bed. certainly you don't jump every attractive woman you see simply because you are attracted to her?

They might indeed have homosexual inclinations, as many have inclinations for sinful things.. Succumbing to lowly desires or overcoming them, makes all the difference!

No one is born homo or hetero, your sexual desires start during puberty!

all the best

Not everyone believes it is a lowly desire and a sin, a non-theocratic state certainly shouldn't discriminate based on religious prejudice. And with there being no reliable data that homosexual marriage poses threat to traditional unions as well as cause differences in children raised in such marriages, it should be allowed.
What gay marriage and increased acceptance of homosexuality can do is decrease the rate of promiscuity and ergo decrease health care costs.

 

[جوري]

Not everyone believes it is a lowly desire and a sin, a non-theocratic state certainly shouldn't discriminate based on religious prejudice. And with there being no reliable data that homosexual marriage poses threat to traditional unions as well as cause differences in children raised in such marriages, it should be allowed.
What gay marriage and increased acceptance of homosexuality can do is decrease the rate of promiscuity and ergo decrease health care costs.

I have enjoyed your logic or lack thereof.. somehow when marriage is okayed for homosexuals that will curb on their promiscuity because you said so, and because you deemed the data provided unreliable?

The article isn't about beliefs, so it really doesn't matter who thinks what. What matters at the end of the day are the numbers of statistical significance and how they weave into the fabric of society although the moral aspect from a religious standpoint is indisputable, and no amount of lobbying, complaints or backtalk will change that!

all the best

 

[Rabi Mansur]

You CHOOSE who you bed. certainly you don't jump every attractive woman you see simply because you are attracted to her?

They might indeed have homosexual inclinations, as many have inclinations for sinful things.. Succumbing to lowly desires or overcoming them, makes all the difference!

No one is born homo or hetero, your sexual desires start during puberty!

all the best

Well, I was attracted to women way before I hit puberty. I never had a desire for men and can't imagine that. Gay men that I know tell me they knew they were different at a very young age. My nephew is gay. He knew he was not like the other guys when he was about 4 or 5 years old. And it was obvious to me when he was quite young that he was probably gay.

They describe it to me by telling me to imagine that I lived in a culture where I was hetero but society told me I had to be homo. Would I be able to conform and marry another man and enjoy sex with another man.

Now to me, that would be horrible. They tell me that is how it feels to them.

I don't know the answer to all this, but sexuality is very complicated for some people. I'm in no position to judge others.

Don't they teach you the answer to everything in med school?? ;-)

:wa:

 

[جوري]

Well, I was attracted to women way before I hit puberty. I never had a desire for men and can't imagine that. Gay men that I know tell me they knew they were different at a very young age. My nephew is gay. He knew he was not like the other guys when he was about 4 or 5 years old. And it was obvious to me when he was quite young that he was probably gay.

They describe it to me by telling me to imagine that I lived in a culture where I was hetero but society told me I had to be homo. Would I be able to conform and marry another man and enjoy sex with another man.

Now to me, that would be horrible. They tell me that is how it feels to them.

I don't know the answer to all this, but sexuality is very complicated for some people. I'm in no position to judge others.

Don't they teach you the answer to everything in med school?? ;-)

:wa:

You had 'sexual urges' before puberty? it is very hard for me to believe that however if you say you have then you know your body best, attraction and urges are a separate thing at a young age and according to Freudian psychology which I don't subscribe to, children are attracted to the parent of their opposite gender (and that too is normal) they don't fully understand the concept of sexuality the way you come to learn of it when you become of age! .. most children role play and dress up in opposite gender clothes, it is common and doesn't mean they are homosexual. One of the neighbor kids in my home country constantly put on lipstick and nail polish and dressed in his mother's clothes and everyone let him be, he grew up and married and has a few kids none of us least of which him knew what homosexuality was, and I hazard say it is a learned behavior not an innate one considering how late in life I learned of it and how confused I was as to what it actually meant to be a homosexual--


Be that as it may, I have acknowledged early on that it is a psychological inclination not a biological one.. the same way some folks are necrophiliacs and can't help it. In fact in my sister's hospital, they caught a man sneaking in to the morgue to have sex with corpses and it was all over the news.. This is a real situation that many find themselves in and they can't help it-- it doesn't make it normal or OK and it certainly doesn't mean that it should be openly acceptable.

Problem is this sympathy you have is mis-directed.. If your child has a serious psychological disorder do you figure it is OK and that s/he should act on it or do you offer help because s/he is miserable if not acting directly on those urges?

I realize how popular the whole homosexual thing is in pop culture and how glamorized that folks fail to view it as wrong or immoral and instead are ready to dispense with labels to folks who merely question the drive and sanity behind this legalizing this type of lifestyle and integrating it into society as 'normal'

I don't have all the answers and I don't think they can teach you everything in medical school or even your residency, to be a doctor takes a life time of practice and hence it is so-called..

I always cringe at folks who claim they have the answer to everything, especially when it comes to 'science' science is ever changing, ever self-correcting.. the way we use DNA today in forensics isn't the way we used it in the eighties.. so why do folks subscribe to any new 'scientific tend' or even 'old ones' the 'Darwinian' sort as if it were a divine revelation?

What defines my morality Br. rabi. is my religion.. science is a gift from God for us to better our lives, not to misuse and go against the intended nature..


and Allah swt knows best

peace