Four Christian Terrorists Arrested in United States

[Pygoscelis]

It depends on the particular case at hand.

If a terrorist or other badly behaving person does what they do without pushing their religion or without being motivated by it or using it to justify or rationalize their actions, then it makes no sense to label them "Muslim Terrorist" or "Christian Terrorist" (or "Atheist Terrorist" for that matter). It is just a hateful spin on what is going on.

If, on the other hand, their religion IS being used to motivate or justify their actions then reporting their religion is perfectly ok to do. If some lady kills her child because she wants to cleanse it of demons, religion is key to the story. If some guy blows himself up on a bus because he's imagined some kind of holy war with nonbelievers, religion is again key to the story.

 

[Fakrun]

It depends on the particular case at hand.

If a terrorist or other badly behaving person does what they do without pushing their religion or without being motivated by it or using it to justify or rationalize their actions, then it makes no sense to label them "Muslim Terrorist" or "Christian Terrorist" (or "Atheist Terrorist" for that matter). It is just a hateful spin on what is going on.

If, on the other hand, their religion IS being used to motivate or justify their actions then reporting their religion is perfectly ok to do. If some lady kills her child because she wants to cleanse it of demons, religion is key to the story. If some guy blows himself up on a bus because he's imagined some kind of holy war with nonbelievers, religion is again key to the story.

Asalaamu alaikum,

Now THAT is logical and precise! However, this article made absolutely no mention of religion in any form so for US to place a label upon them makes us no better than the media who mistakenly associate "Muslim" and "Terrorist" as if they were one in the same.

 

[sister herb]

Correct, but when a Muslim does it they are labelled "Muslim Terrorist" or "Jihadist"

How WE can change it? Whining it in forums? May I correct you a little: muslims don´t do it, terrorism as it is against islam. There isn´t muslim terrorists at all as well no christian terrorists or jew terrorists.

 

[Abz2000]

when a man gets tempted by the fbi to irrationally and un-Islamically blow up a tree or some common folk at a shopping mall - because he is angry with the murders of his people - they call it "muslim terrorist" or "Islam inspired"- despite them often clearly saying it was due to anger at the state murder of innocent people and even writing notes confirming their reasons.
maybe they will one day call these sort of attacks "Islam inspired copycat attacks".
the lamestream media can be quite creative.
can't have them go to waste now can we?

 

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

In Europe have or have been many nationalist groups making acts someone could call terrorism like IRA or groups in ex-Jugoslavia. In Europe every year have about 100 terrorist attacks and just 2 of them made by "islamist". Thanks to media that people are scared when see sister by hijab or brother by beard on street.

;D Heeeeeeeee I am terrorist because of this I have on my head?

 

[جوري]

when a man gets tempted by the fbi to irrationally and un-Islamically blow up a tree or some common folk at a shopping mall - because he is angry with the murders of his people - they call it "muslim terrorist" or "Islam inspired"- despite them often clearly saying it was due to anger at the state murder of innocent people and even writing notes confirming their reasons.
maybe they will one day call these sort of attacks "Islam inspired copycat attacks".
the lamestream media can be quite creative.
can't have them go to waste now can we?

How should agents provocateurs fresh out of prison make a living do you suppose if not egging foolish teenage Muslims? They suffer the ill effect of the economy too and this is about the only area left where you can still make a good buck.. half the country are spies, 1/3 thieves and the rest occupying wall street..

welcome to the new world order...

 

[Fakrun]

How WE can change it? Whining it in forums? May I correct you a little: muslims don´t do it, terrorism as it is against islam. There isn´t muslim terrorists at all as well no christian terrorists or jew terrorists.

Asalaamu alaikum,

But here's the rub....

The victims of these acts, they are the ones who don't realize that there is a difference between what the "Muslim terrorists" SAAAYS he is and what he ACTUALLY is. If I committed an act of terror and died screaming "Allah Akbar", then the people who heard it of COURSE would come to the conclusion that I was a Muslim. Add to that if I went out and bought a Burka or Niqab...people see what they want to see and they hear what they want to hear.

That is why it is SO important for us to separate ourselves from the acts and thinking of people like that. So that when OTHER people hear about an act of a so-called Muslim, those OTHER people can say...."but wait a second. I know Muslims and that's not accurate....something's different here." It is our thinking and acting that separate us from the good people and the bad people.

 

[Abz2000]

problem is that when we are too vocal in distancing ourselves from them, the lamestream media use it as capital to show that they are victim - when really they are party to and perpetrators of horrendous acts of terror and murder throughout the world.
secondly - they use it to discredit acts of legitimate resistance in illegally occupied lands, and call people fighting occupation "terrorists", "insurgents" "extremists" by making generalizations.
which is why i personally mention these stupid acts as being against the laws of Islam, and then mention that many are false flag (proven), and many are also wrongly done by people who are angry at the continued murder and violation of their people.
but no way would i be so foolish as to fall into continually condemning someone who's just irrationally reacted after having being harassed, hounded, provoked, had family murdered, tortured etc.
it's like over-condemning a weak person whose just reacted to the harassment and torture of a perpetual bully with a bottle to the head.
and giving political capital to the real terrorists in seats of authority.

here's what they themselves say when their allies commit crimes:
when you reach 8 seconds - hit zero

they call it propaganda

 

[Fakrun]

Oh no I was on about the whole media, every time a Muslim does something it's on the news all over the place, yet a non-Muslim does it and it does not even last 5 minutes on the channels.

Asalaamu alaikum,

I just had a novel thought.....

Maybe the reason "Muslim Terrorists" get so much more news coverage is because its so rare for us, like an odd novelty. We're so used to violence done by a whole range of idiots that suddeenly, we have a group of people who we are now being forced to recognize. Granted, the idiots doing the terrorizing are perverting Islam, but they are still crying "Muslim". Now we're being forced to recognize a formally under recognized section of humanity. Unfortunately, we've gone from ignoring a whole group of people to MISUNDERSTANDING them..

 

[جوري]

After the downfall of communism, Islam is the only thing standing against that 'new world order' the police state the western style democracy and globalization ... So it will be on the news in many colorful ways and they'll fight us in anyway they can..

 

[Abz2000]

Now we're being forced to recognize a formally under recognized section of humanity. Unfortunately, we've gone from ignoring a whole group of people to MISUNDERSTANDING them..

if there were 5 people on this planet - 1 of them would be Muslim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations
- how they still make us out to be a minority in nearly all countries - God knows, even in Muslim majority countries - they seem to make a distinction between muslim and "Islamist" (ie non muslim and real muslim). we are the strangers - Al Ghurabaa - as prophesied.

anyway, back to topic - one really needs to look into the meaning of the term terrorist, and we will see that the U.S government fits the bill nicely:

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, especially as a means of coercion. In the international community, however, terrorism has no universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition.
Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians).
Some definitions now exclude acts of state terrorism and some also include acts of unlawful violence and war.
The use of similar tactics by criminal organizations for protection rackets or to enforce a code of silence is usually not labeled terrorism
though these same actions may be labeled terrorism when done by a politically motivated group.

amazing huh?
they cut out their own names from the definition and leave a vague meaning to it, so instead of people thinking of the definition of the word - they see a picture which can be changed at will.
and that picture usually has a beard and a long shirt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

family guy gives us a good insight into how they depend on a dumbed down public to perpetrate their deceptions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

 

[truthseeker63]

Any Religion can have Terrorists.

 

[sabr*]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Two of the accused Dan Roberts, 67, and Ray Adams, 65 are members of a Tocca, GA
Church. The only churches in Tocca, GA are Christian. Now many continue to
put there head in the sand but the facts can't be altered. It took us 40 minutes
to research it. Many have no real interest in the facts.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/pages/?tags=Ray+Adams

The following people claimed Christianity and have been convicted or charged with terrorism. (Facts only)
There was an attempt to falsely claim Timothy McVeigh association with Islamic terror groups to distance
his actions away from Christianity. (Sounds crazy doesn't it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeig


Timothy McVeigh
Terry Nichlos

Every American White Supremacist organization's basic foundation is belief in Christianity.
(These aforementioned groups mainstream Christians will distance themselves)

These groups commit domestic terrorism.

Origins: Mid-to-late 1993
Prominent leaders: John Trochmann (Montana), Ron Gaydosh (Michigan),
Randy Miller (Texas), Charlie Puckett (Kentucky), Mark Koernke (Michigan),
Carl Worden (Oregon), Gib Ingwer (Ohio)

Prominent groups: Kentucky State Militia, Ohio Unorganized Militia Assistance
and Advisory Committee, Southeastern Ohio Defense Force, Michigan Militia
(two factions using the same name), Southern Indiana Regional Militia,
Southern California High Desert Militia-and many others

Outreach: Gun shows, shortwave radio, newsletters, the Internet

Ideology: Anti-government and conspiracy-oriented in nature; prominent focus on firearms
Prominent militia arrests: Multiple members of the following groups have been arrested and
convicted, usually on weapons, explosives, or conspiracy charges: Oklahoma Constitutional Militia,
Georgia Republic Militia, Arizona Viper Militia, Washington State Militia, West Virginia Mountaineer Militia,
Twin Cities Free Militia, North American Militia, San Joaquin County Militia.


NOTE: Review our thread on Conspiracy theories. We don't subscribe and are not associated with conspiracy theorist.
Just the facts!

 

[Fakrun]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Two of the accused Dan Roberts, 67, and Ray Adams, 65 are members of a Tocca, GA
Church. The only churches in Tocca, GA are Christian. Now many continue to
put there head in the sand but the facts can't be altered. It took us 40 minutes
to research it. Many have no real interest in the facts.

Asalaamu alaikum,

They may CLAIM to be christian but that doesn't mean they are REAL christians, the way that the church intends for it to be. Thinking that they are prime examples of "christianity" is like Americans thinking that the 9/11 bombers are prime examples of Islam. Its ludicrous! What's MORE important than their religion, is their politics. They were ALL neo-Confederates (I had to look it up cause I had never heard the term before).

These people want to bring the days of the confederate states and slavery back. I truly believe that this has no connection to Islam (except getting lumped into a whole bag with everyone else that ISN'T a neo-Confederate).

What we were discussing was the ORIGINAL article, not the facts of the people...just the original article, and THAT didn't make mention of any religious leanings.

 

[sabr*]

Asalaamu alaikum,

They may CLAIM to be christian but that doesn't mean they are REAL christians, the way
that the church intends for it to be. Thinking that they are prime examples of "christianity" i
s like Americans thinking that the 9/11 bombers are prime examples of Islam. Its ludicrous!
What's MORE important than their religion, is their politics. They were ALL neo-Confederates
(I had to look it up cause I had never heard the term before).

These people want to bring the days of the confederate states and slavery back. I truly believe
that this has no connection to Islam (except getting lumped into a whole bag with everyone else
that ISN'T a neo-Confederate).

What we were discussing was the ORIGINAL article, not the facts of the people...just the original
article, and THAT didn't make mention of any religious leanings.

Peace be to you Fukran:

We acknowledge misinformation is the course of the day when people
reporting have an objective.

If anyone has studied the basic principals of Christianity they realize the following facts:
_______________________________________________

The Major Denominations:

Roman Catholic - The Roman Catholic Church denomination is the largest
Christian group in the world today with more than a billion followers constituting
about half of the world's Christian population.

Eastern Orthodox- Approximately 225 million people worldwide are Orthodox Christians.

Protestant- There are approximately 500 million Protestants in the world.

159 Million People in the United States claim Christianity has there religion.

So that would translate about 75% of adults identify themselves as Christian in America.
________________________________________________

In Islam there is no separation of State verse Religion. The Right Wing political
party in the United States openly expresses their intention to include Christianity
with Politics and are not labeled Christian Radicals or Christian Fundamentalist.

This thread only pointed out the hypocrisy in the Western media.

 

[Fakrun]

This thread only pointed out the hypocrisy in the Western media.

Asalaamu alaikum,

Respectfully, I disagree with your statement. This was the original post:

Four Christian men belonging to a Militia group were arrested on Tuesday
in what the Justice Department described as a plot to use guns, bombs and the toxin ricin
to kill federal and state officials and spread terror.

The reason why this report is downplayed and why the correct title of the article not
applied is commonsense. If these four claimed Islam as their religion it would have
been titled as Muslim or Islamic terrorist. The writers of these articles are aligned
with the Zionist state. Review the names...

The majority of Publishers, Editors and writers are Jewish. Not a conspiracy theory
look up the aforementioned with the major publications.

The article URL that was posted made ZERO mention of religion. Think about that. WHO put in the label of 'Christian' and then paired it with 'Militia'? A Muslim did.

Now, I'll be one of the first to admit that western media tends to be quick to label ALL Muslims as terrorists, but, to quote a Muslim website on Facebook: "Take not the character of the enemy you despise when you oppose him.", so why ARE we behaving in that manner? Why are we inserting the label of 'Christian' as being part and parcel of their reasons WHY they were part of a a subversive militia?

Those people were spouting their hatred of our democratic government and race integration, not the "this good christian land is being polluted by god hating, Jesus hating, freedom hating (insert whatever hating statement here)...".

Their motives had nothing to do with religion, so, why are we committing the same crime here that we are screaming about other people doing elsewhere??

 

[sabr*]

Asalaamu alaikum,

Respectfully, I disagree with your statement. This was the original post:



The article URL that was posted made ZERO mention of religion. Think about that.
WHO put in the label of 'Christian' and then paired it with 'Militia'? A Muslim did.

Now, I'll be one of the first to admit that western media tends to be quick to label
ALL Muslims as terrorists, but, to quote a Muslim website on Facebook:
"Take not the character of the enemy you despise when you oppose him.",
so why ARE we behaving in that manner? Why are we inserting the label of 'Christian'
as being part and parcel of their reasons WHY they were part of a a subversive militia?

Those people were spouting their hatred of our democratic government and race integration,
not the "this good christian land is being polluted by god hating, Jesus hating, freedom hating
(insert whatever hating statement here)...".

Their motives had nothing to do with religion, so, why are we committing the same crime here
that we are screaming about other people doing elsewhere??

Peace to you Fakrun:

It appears you will continue to neglect that these men are adherence of Christianity.

The evidence supports the labeling and didn't require research or follow-up
but we realized that is what is required so we provided the additional information.

And you continued to separate the ideas of the Christian Militia from mainstream
Christianity. Is this the same good Christian country that enslaved African Americans
that you reference? Is that the same good Christian country that violated the rights
and committed genocide on Native Americans. I know Christian conveniently forget
and compartmentalize history.

Historical Facts:

The enslavement of African Americans hopefully will not be disputed was committed
by Christians. The opposition of civil rights was also committed by Christians.

From the 1490s when Christopher Columbus set foot on the Americas to the 1890 massacre
of Sioux at Wounded Knee by the United States military, the indigenous population of the
Western Hemisphere may have declined, the direct cause mostly from disease, to 1.8 from as many as 100 million.[SUP]

[/SUP] In Brazil alone the indigenous population has declined from a Pre-Columbian high of an estimated 3 million to some 300,000 (1997).

Estimates of how many people were living in the Americas when Columbus arrived have varied tremendously; 20th century scholarly
estimates ranged from a low of 8.4 million to a high of 112.5 million persons. This population debate has often had ideological underpinnings.

Robert Royal writes that "estimates of Pre-Columbian population figures have become heavily politicized with scholars who are particularly
critical of Europe and/or Western civilization often favoring wildly higher figures."


Scholars now believe that, among the various contributing factors, epidemic disease was
the overwhelming direct cause of the population decline of the American natives.

After first contacts with Europeans some believe that the death of 90 to 95% of the native
population of the New World was caused by Old World diseases such as smallpox and measles.

Some estimates indicate case fatality rates of 80-90% in Native American populations during smallpox epidemics.


One of the most important yet highly disputed pieces of information regarding the intentional ethnocide of indigenous
populations in the Americas was possible intentional use of disease as a biological weapon, which was first posited by
British forces under the command of Jeffery Amherst.

There is, however, only one documented case of germ warfare, involving British commander Jeffrey Amherst.
It is uncertain whether this documented British attempt successfully infected the Indians.



American writer David Quammen has likened the colonial American policies and practices toward
Native Americans with those of Australia toward its aboriginal populations, calling them
"brutal, hypocritical, opportunistic, and even genocidal in the fullest sense of the word."


Authors such as the Holocaust expert David Cesarani have argued that the government
and policies of the United States of America against certain indigenous peoples in furtherance of Manifest destiny
constituted genocide. Cesarani states that "in terms of the sheer numbers killed, the Native American Genocide exceeds
that of the Holocaust".

The Indian Removal Act of 1830 led to the Cherokee Trail of Tears.

Fakrun, the facts based upon history doesn't provide a favorable account on the good Christian
morals and values. Unless you are attempting to disavow the aforementioned accounts as
not being what you define as Christian. History would disagree with you.

Also we didn't incorrectly label the four men. They are affiliated with a Militia and are
adherents of Christianity. These are their own omissions. The historical accounts
shouldn't be construed as an attack on Christianity just the double standard
in the media and the conveniently compartmentalizing historical facts.

 

[Fakrun]

Is that the same good Christian country that violated the rights
and committed genocide on Native Americans.

Asalaamu alaikum,

Pssst....

I'm a Native American....in case you didn't know.

I am well aware of the atrocities done in the name of religion. It transcends country boundaries but what I'm saying is that these men, while laying claim to being christian (in faith) were not committing these acts in the name of religious belief, but in the name of political belief. In America, those can be two different things. Its not always the case, but it can be.

 

[sabr*]

Asalaamu alaikum,

Pssst....

I'm a Native American....in case you didn't know.

I am well aware of the atrocities done in the name of religion. It transcends country
boundaries but what I'm saying is that these men, while laying claim to being christian
(in faith) were not committing these acts in the name of religious belief, but in the name of political belief.
In America, those can be two different things. Its not always the case, but it can be.

Peace to you Fakrun:

We accept your above assessment.

Is Fakrun turtle?

 

[Fakrun]

Peace to you Fakrun:

We accept your above assessment.

Is Fakrun turtle?

Asalaamu alaikum,

That's what Google translate tells me it means...