France rejects veiled Muslim wife
- Thread starter Uthman
- Start date
- Replies 51
- Views 7K
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | PHP 8.4 patch for vBulletin 4.2.5
- Status
Musaafirah
Miss. Serious ^_^
- Messages
- 1,979
- Reaction score
- 282
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
Fair enough, but they're denying her citizenship..
Well, I don't think citizenship should be something that you should get for just turning up. It should be a privelage that you should have to work hard to achieve.
Its like the English people that move to Spain. They just stick in their little communities, never learning spanish, never contributing anything to the larger community, just drinking beer and eating fish and chips. I hope that sort of person would never be allowed to become a citizen.
Uthman
LI News Service
- Messages
- 5,513
- Reaction score
- 1,216
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Thanks for the reply. 
Where does freedom of religion come into this? Isn't that one of the hard-earned rights of the French people? To claim to offer freedom of religion, and then deny somebody citizenship because of their religious practices is nothing short of hypocrisy.
Yeah, good point. I misread the article.
Where does freedom of religion come into this? Isn't that one of the hard-earned rights of the French people? To claim to offer freedom of religion, and then deny somebody citizenship because of their religious practices is nothing short of hypocrisy.
Yeah, good point. I misread the article.
Uthman
LI News Service
- Messages
- 5,513
- Reaction score
- 1,216
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
I can see some sense in that. I guess some more knowledge on her part about France as a country wouldn't have gone amiss.
Apart from that, they are only willing to grant her citizenship on the condition that she compromises her religion. Is that really fair?
What you wear I doubt has an impact on how much you contribute to society. This situation is a little difficult because it's understandable why some people would get upset. Talking to a person with a veil on I doubt is fun, you can not read their expression and you can't tell who you are talking to (besides a name) and in some ways that would be awkward.
'Abd-al Latif
CagePrisoners.com
- Messages
- 3,680
- Reaction score
- 921
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
A French court has denied citizenship to a Muslim woman from Morocco, ruling that her practice of "radical" Islam is not compatible with French values.
Faiza M was described to be living "virtually as a recluse"
The 32-year-old woman, known as Faiza M, has lived in France since 2000 with her husband - a French national - and their three French-born children.
Social services reports said the burqa-wearing Faiza M lived in "total submission to her male relatives".
Faiza M said she has never challenged the fundamental values of France.
Her initial application for French citizenship was rejected in 2005 on the grounds of "insufficient assimilation" into France.
She appealed, and late last month the Conseil d'Etat, France's highest administrative body which also acts as a high court, upheld the decision to deny her citizenship.
Source
Masha'Allah Allah has made her piety known in this world and may He do the same in aakhira. And may Allah give her the ability to hold on to this religion with strength.
Make du'a for your sister.
I think the veil issue is a bit of a red herring - there are of course french citizens who do wear the veil, and it wasn't mentioned that the veil was a reason for her rejection. What was mentioned was her complete lack of knowledge of French customs, laws, and presumably history.
And don't equate French secularism with complete freedom of religion - the French state has been contstraining the Catholic Church for a long time, and after the French Revolution one of the first acts was the (short lived) banning of Christianity (and its replacement by a state controlled 'Church of the Supreme Being'). French secularism is more freedom from Religion, than Freedom of religion.
And don't equate French secularism with complete freedom of religion - the French state has been contstraining the Catholic Church for a long time, and after the French Revolution one of the first acts was the (short lived) banning of Christianity (and its replacement by a state controlled 'Church of the Supreme Being'). French secularism is more freedom from Religion, than Freedom of religion.
BlackMamba
IB Veteran
- Messages
- 771
- Reaction score
- 120
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Wow America is so much better than France
Malaikah
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,351
- Reaction score
- 907
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
Are you kidding me? Is she doing anything illegal? Is she imposing her way of living on any one else? Why is that anyone else business as long as she isn't breaking the law or causing harm to others?
You suggest that France should accept every immigrant asking for the citizenship?
It would be about 3 million Africans a year.
Uthman
LI News Service
- Messages
- 5,513
- Reaction score
- 1,216
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
French minister denounces burqa
A Muslim member of the French government has backed a court's decision to deny citizenship to a Moroccan woman who wears the burqa.
Urban Affairs Minister Fadela Amara said she hoped last month's ruling would "dissuade certain fanatics from imposing the burqa on their wives".
She told the newspaper, Le Parisien, the head-to-toe garment was a "prison".
The Moroccan woman, Faiza M, was told that her practice of "radical" Islam was not compatible with French values.
The 32-year-old, who has lived in France since 2000 with her husband - a French national - and their three French-born children, said she had never challenged the country's fundamental values.
Social services reports said the burqa-wearing Faiza M lived in "total submission to her male relatives".
'Straitjacket'
Ms Amara, who is a French-born Muslim of Algerian parentage, said she supported the ruling in June by France's highest administrative court, the Conseil d'Etat.
It is not a religious insignia but the insignia of a totalitarian political project that advocates inequality between the sexes and which is totally devoid of democracy
Fadela Amara
French Urban Affairs Minister
"The burqa is a prison, it's a straightjacket," she told Le Parisien.
"It is not a religious insignia but the insignia of a totalitarian political project that advocates inequality between the sexes and which is totally devoid of democracy."
The minister said she hoped the court's ruling might in future "dissuade certain fanatics from imposing the burqa on their wives".
Ms Amara, who is also a prominent women's rights campaigner, said she made no distinction between the veil and the burqa, describing both as symbols of oppression for women.
"It's just a question of centimetres of fabric," she added.
Source
A Muslim member of the French government has backed a court's decision to deny citizenship to a Moroccan woman who wears the burqa.
Urban Affairs Minister Fadela Amara said she hoped last month's ruling would "dissuade certain fanatics from imposing the burqa on their wives".
She told the newspaper, Le Parisien, the head-to-toe garment was a "prison".
The Moroccan woman, Faiza M, was told that her practice of "radical" Islam was not compatible with French values.
The 32-year-old, who has lived in France since 2000 with her husband - a French national - and their three French-born children, said she had never challenged the country's fundamental values.
Social services reports said the burqa-wearing Faiza M lived in "total submission to her male relatives".
'Straitjacket'
Ms Amara, who is a French-born Muslim of Algerian parentage, said she supported the ruling in June by France's highest administrative court, the Conseil d'Etat.
Fadela Amara
French Urban Affairs Minister
"The burqa is a prison, it's a straightjacket," she told Le Parisien.
"It is not a religious insignia but the insignia of a totalitarian political project that advocates inequality between the sexes and which is totally devoid of democracy."
The minister said she hoped the court's ruling might in future "dissuade certain fanatics from imposing the burqa on their wives".
Ms Amara, who is also a prominent women's rights campaigner, said she made no distinction between the veil and the burqa, describing both as symbols of oppression for women.
"It's just a question of centimetres of fabric," she added.
Source
truemuslim
IB Legend
- Messages
- 5,036
- Reaction score
- 614
- Religion
- Islam
were taking over anyways, so no biggy.
we already own the chrysler building in NYC muaahahahahahaha
Lool yah thats sooo cool.
I hate french people anyways. but then again i hate greek, british, romans, etc etc (except any muslim ones
)i hate them. why would they ever think this will eever benifit them at all?? :thumbs_do
Last edited:
Uthman
LI News Service
- Messages
- 5,513
- Reaction score
- 1,216
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
PARIS: A Muslim woman who sheaths herself in a head-to-toe veil is denied French citizenship because she hasn't assimilated enough into this society. France's highest body upholds the decision, and politicians across the spectrum agree it was the right move.
A few dissenting voices, though, are questioning whether the decision pushes France's secularist values too far.
"Where does it begin or end; what we are calling radical behavior?" asked Mohammed Bechari, president of the National Federation of French Muslims. "Will we see a man refused citizenship because of the length of his beard ... or a man who is dressed as a rabbi, or a priest?"
Critics accuse the French justice system of using secularism as an excuse for breeding fear and intolerance of Islam in a country home to western Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated at least 5 million of the nation's 63 million people — and growing.
French officialdom has struggled to instill secular traditions in diverse and evolving Muslim immigrant communities, passing a law in 2004 barring the Islamic headscarf and other highly visible religious symbols from public schools. Proponents of that law welcomed the decision denying citizenship to a woman wearing a niqab, or full-body veil, to her meetings with immigration officials.
"The burqa — it's a prison, a straitjacket," said France's minister for urban affairs, Fadela Amara, herself born to Algerian parents.
The terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably in France, though the former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with only a mesh screen over the eyes.
"It is not a religious sign but the visible sign of a totalitarian political project preaching inequality between the sexes, and which carries within it the total absence of democracy," Amara was quoted as saying in the daily Le Parisien.
Amara said she hoped extremists would get a strong message from the Council of State's ruling upholding immigration officials' refusal to grant citizenship to Faiza X, as the woman is referred to in the document.
The Council's June 27 ruling says Faiza X "has adopted a radical practice of her religion incompatible with the essential values of the French community, notably with the principle of equality of the sexes, and therefore she does not fulfill the conditions of assimilation" listed in the country's Civil Code as a requirement for gaining French citizenship.
The council said the decision to refuse her citizenship did not aim to "attack (her) freedom of religion."
The ruling did not refer to her niqab, which she said she adopted after arriving in France from her native Morocco, according to a report from a government commissioner to the Council.
The woman told immigration officials that she did not know anything about secularism or her right to vote, according to the commissioner's report. All the immigration officials handling her case were women. They asked her to remove her veil to identify herself, which she did only when no men were in the room, the report said.
Later, in a letter to immigration officials, the woman defended her lifestyle by noting that other immigrants granted French citizenship also maintain "ties with their culture of origin."
The woman and her husband told immigration officials that they adhere to Salafism, a strict strain of Islam.
Her statements to immigration officials indicate that "she leads a life almost of a recluse, cut off from French society," leaving the house only to walk with her children or visit relatives, the report said.
"She lives in total submission to the men in her family ... and the idea of
contesting this submission doesn't even occur to her," the government report said.
Politicians on talk shows this week spoke out in support of the ruling. But Muslim groups had mixed reactions.
Mohammed Moussaoui, head of the moderate French Council for Muslim Communities, issued a cautious statement Wednesday saying his group "rejects all forms of extremism and stigmas that would keep the Muslim component of the nation's society from living its spirituality in peace."
Fouad Alaoui, vice president of the Union of Islamic Organizations of France, said: "It's a turning point in our judiciary that should make us think.
"I don't think that clothing is part of this country's values. Clothing is personal freedom."
Then he added, "On a personal level, I, too, am disturbed when I see a woman hide her face."
Source
A few dissenting voices, though, are questioning whether the decision pushes France's secularist values too far.
"Where does it begin or end; what we are calling radical behavior?" asked Mohammed Bechari, president of the National Federation of French Muslims. "Will we see a man refused citizenship because of the length of his beard ... or a man who is dressed as a rabbi, or a priest?"
Critics accuse the French justice system of using secularism as an excuse for breeding fear and intolerance of Islam in a country home to western Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated at least 5 million of the nation's 63 million people — and growing.
French officialdom has struggled to instill secular traditions in diverse and evolving Muslim immigrant communities, passing a law in 2004 barring the Islamic headscarf and other highly visible religious symbols from public schools. Proponents of that law welcomed the decision denying citizenship to a woman wearing a niqab, or full-body veil, to her meetings with immigration officials.
"The burqa — it's a prison, a straitjacket," said France's minister for urban affairs, Fadela Amara, herself born to Algerian parents.
The terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably in France, though the former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with only a mesh screen over the eyes.
"It is not a religious sign but the visible sign of a totalitarian political project preaching inequality between the sexes, and which carries within it the total absence of democracy," Amara was quoted as saying in the daily Le Parisien.
Amara said she hoped extremists would get a strong message from the Council of State's ruling upholding immigration officials' refusal to grant citizenship to Faiza X, as the woman is referred to in the document.
The Council's June 27 ruling says Faiza X "has adopted a radical practice of her religion incompatible with the essential values of the French community, notably with the principle of equality of the sexes, and therefore she does not fulfill the conditions of assimilation" listed in the country's Civil Code as a requirement for gaining French citizenship.
The council said the decision to refuse her citizenship did not aim to "attack (her) freedom of religion."
The ruling did not refer to her niqab, which she said she adopted after arriving in France from her native Morocco, according to a report from a government commissioner to the Council.
The woman told immigration officials that she did not know anything about secularism or her right to vote, according to the commissioner's report. All the immigration officials handling her case were women. They asked her to remove her veil to identify herself, which she did only when no men were in the room, the report said.
Later, in a letter to immigration officials, the woman defended her lifestyle by noting that other immigrants granted French citizenship also maintain "ties with their culture of origin."
The woman and her husband told immigration officials that they adhere to Salafism, a strict strain of Islam.
Her statements to immigration officials indicate that "she leads a life almost of a recluse, cut off from French society," leaving the house only to walk with her children or visit relatives, the report said.
"She lives in total submission to the men in her family ... and the idea of
contesting this submission doesn't even occur to her," the government report said.
Politicians on talk shows this week spoke out in support of the ruling. But Muslim groups had mixed reactions.
Mohammed Moussaoui, head of the moderate French Council for Muslim Communities, issued a cautious statement Wednesday saying his group "rejects all forms of extremism and stigmas that would keep the Muslim component of the nation's society from living its spirituality in peace."
Fouad Alaoui, vice president of the Union of Islamic Organizations of France, said: "It's a turning point in our judiciary that should make us think.
"I don't think that clothing is part of this country's values. Clothing is personal freedom."
Then he added, "On a personal level, I, too, am disturbed when I see a woman hide her face."
Source
islamirama
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 4,194
- Reaction score
- 608
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Comments:
This means that Muslim states like Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco Yemen, and other Islamic states, can revoke the citizenship of their Christian and Jewish populations because they have never assimilated.
In other words, unless Christians and Jews living in the Muslim World start to dress and cover like Muslims (of course Muslims must first start to dress like Muslims) and denounce the aggression and violence by Western nations and Israel against Muslims, they will be stripped of their citizenship and their residency terminated!
This means that Muslim states like Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco Yemen, and other Islamic states, can revoke the citizenship of their Christian and Jewish populations because they have never assimilated.
In other words, unless Christians and Jews living in the Muslim World start to dress and cover like Muslims (of course Muslims must first start to dress like Muslims) and denounce the aggression and violence by Western nations and Israel against Muslims, they will be stripped of their citizenship and their residency terminated!
islamirama
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 4,194
- Reaction score
- 608
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
A Muslim member of the French government has backed a court's decision to deny citizenship to a Moroccan woman who wears the burqa.
Ms Amara, who is a French-born Muslim of Algerian parentage, said she supported the ruling in June by France's highest administrative court, the Conseil d'Etat.
"The burqa is a prison, it's a straightjacket," she told Le Parisien.
"It is not a religious insignia but the insignia of a totalitarian political project that advocates inequality between the sexes and which is totally devoid of democracy."
Ms Amara, who is also a prominent women's rights campaigner, said she made no distinction between the veil and the burqa, describing both as symbols of oppression for women.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7509339.stm
------
Muslim woman? ... how about ex-muslim kuffar woman instead?
“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).
“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)
Ms Amara, who is a French-born Muslim of Algerian parentage, said she supported the ruling in June by France's highest administrative court, the Conseil d'Etat.
"The burqa is a prison, it's a straightjacket," she told Le Parisien.
"It is not a religious insignia but the insignia of a totalitarian political project that advocates inequality between the sexes and which is totally devoid of democracy."
Ms Amara, who is also a prominent women's rights campaigner, said she made no distinction between the veil and the burqa, describing both as symbols of oppression for women.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7509339.stm
------
Muslim woman? ... how about ex-muslim kuffar woman instead?
“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).
“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)
It's diference because that woman in the article was an immigrant from Morocco aplyying or citizenship. While the christians living in Middle East they live there since about 2 thousand years i think and they are already citizens.
- Status