France rejects veiled Muslim wife

[Whatsthepoint]

She's married to a french citizen, she hasn't done anything illegal so she should get the citizenship.
I do however think a country has every right to expel or deny citizenship to people like her, if you don't integrate or even refuse to, leave!

 

[niler]

My question is, from what aspects of the islamic religion can we judge Islam 2b radical?

wearing a burqa?..Serving ur hussie n kids... treating them with respect n love........?

I think the defination of gender equality should be made clear...

No one can deny that men n women were creatd differently by Allah, n trying to make one do things she/he can not do is dangerous.. u can not cut using a fork and use a knife for something else. that would not achieve wat u wanted.

Same with gender equality..WE WERE NOT CREATED EQUAL N WE WILL NEVER BE EQUAL,BUT THAT'S not to say one sex is better than the other!!!
Going back to the fork-knife issue, we all best have a purpose and use and attempting to change that can be disastrous!!

 

[Tania]

..Serving ur hussie n kids... treating them with respect n love........?

May be its something related exactly to this :-[ She has no job, so if the hussie dissapear, the social security should give her money . You have to be citizen to get money.

 

[Uthman]

A Muslim woman too orthodox for France

LA VERRIÈRE, France: When Faiza Silmi applied for French citizenship she was worried that her fluent French was not quite perfect enough or that her Moroccan upbringing would pose a problem.

"I would never have imagined that they would turn me down because of what I choose to wear," Silmi said, her hazel eyes looking out of the narrow slit in her niqab, an Islamic facial veil that is among three flowing layers of turquoise, blue and black that cover her body from head to toe.

But last month, France's highest administrative court upheld a decision to deny Silmi, 32, citizenship on the ground that her "radical" practice of Islam was incompatible with French values like equality of the sexes.

It was the first time that a French court had judged somebody's capacity to be assimilated into France based on private religious practice, taking laïcité - the country's strict concept of secularism - from the public sphere into the home.

The case has sharpened the focus on the delicate balance between the tradition of Republican secularism and the freedom of religion guaranteed under the French Constitution - and how that balance might be shifting. It comes four years after a law banning religious garb in public schools was reinforced. And it comes only weeks after a court in Lille annulled a marriage on request of a Muslim husband whose wife had lied about being a virgin. (The government subsequently demanded a review of the court decision.)

So far, citizenship has only been denied on religious grounds in France when applicants were believed to be close to fundamentalist groups.

The ruling has received almost unequivocal support across the political spectrum, including among many Muslims. Fadela Amara, the French minister for urban affairs, called Silmi's niqab "a prison" and a "straitjacket."

"It is not a religious insignia but the insignia of a totalitarian political project that promotes inequality between the sexes and is totally lacking in democracy," said Amara, herself a practicing Muslim of Algerian descent.

François Hollande, the leader of the opposition Socialist Party, called the ruling "a good application of the law," while Jacques Myard, the conservative lawmaker elected in the constituency where Silmi lives, demanded that face-covering veils be outlawed.

In an interview, Silmi told of her shock and embarrassment when she found herself unexpectedly in the public eye. Since July 12, when Le Monde first reported the court decision, her story has been endlessly dissected on newspaper front pages and in late-night television talk shows.

"They say I am under my husband's command and that I am a recluse," Silmi said during an hourlong conversation in her apartment in La Verrière, a small town 30 minutes southwest of Paris. At home, when there are no men present, she lifts her facial veil and exposes a smiling, heart-shaped face.

"They say I wear the niqab because my husband told me so," she said. "I want to tell them: It is my choice. I take care of my children and I leave the house when I please. I have my own car. I do the shopping on my own. Yes, I am a practicing Muslim, I am orthodox. But is that not my right?"

Silmi declined to have her photograph taken, saying that both she and her husband were uncomfortable with the idea.

Silmi married Karim, a French national of Moroccan descent, eight years ago and moved to France with him. Their four children, three boys and a girl, aged from 2 to 7, were all born in France. In 2004, Silmi applied for French citizenship, "because I wanted to have the same nationality as my husband and my children." But her request was denied a year later because of "insufficient assimilation" into France.

She appealed, invoking the right to religious freedom. But on June 25 the Council of State, the judicial institution with final say on disputes between individuals and the public administration, upheld the ruling.

"She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes," said the ruling.

Emmanuelle Prada-Bordenave, the government commissioner who reported to the Council of State, said Simli's interviews with social services revealed that "she lives in total submission to her male relatives. She seems to find this normal and the idea of challenging it has never crossed her mind."

But everything is not as Western cliché might have it in the Silmi household. As she recounts her story, it is her husband who serves a steaming pot of mint tea and chocolate cookies. Silmi herself collected this interviewer from the rail station in her car. She does not wear her facial veil while driving and says that she also lifts it when she picks up her children at the local public school.

"What hurts me most is that people who don't know me judge me like this," she said. Journalists got many facts wrong, she said, starting with the number of her children and ending with the assertion that she refused to take off her veil when she was interviewed for her citizenship. "It is simply not true," she said.

M'hammed Henniche of the Union of Muslim Associations in the Seine-Saint-Denis district north of Paris, fears that the ruling may open the door to what he considers ever more arbitrary interpretations of what constitutes "radical" Islam.

"What is it going to be tomorrow? The annual pilgrimage to Mecca? The daily prayer?" said Henniche. "This sets a dangerous precedent. Religion, so far as it is personal, should be kept out of these decisions."

In one sign of the nature of some of the criteria used to evaluate Silmi's fitness to become French, the government commissioner approvingly noted in her report that she was treated by a male gynecologist during her pregnancies.

The Silmis say they live by a literalist interpretation of the Koran. They do not like the term Salafism, although they say literally it means following the way of the prophet Muhammad and his companions.

"But today 'Salafist' has come to mean political Islam; people who don't like the government and who approve of violence call themselves Salafists. We have nothing to do with them," said Karim Silm, a soft-spoken man with a visible prayer mark on his forehead and a religious beard.

His wife explains that in 2000 she decided to wear the niqab, a dress code typically found on the Arabian Peninsula, because in her eyes her traditional Moroccan attire - a flowing djelaba with head scarf - was not modest enough. "I don't like to draw men's looks," she said. "I want to belong to my husband and my husband only."

She has given herself until September to decide whether to challenge the ruling.

France is home to nearly five million Muslims, roughly half of whom are

French citizens. Criteria for granting French citizenship include "assimilation," which normally focuses on how well the candidate speaks French.

Lately, though, President, Nicolas Sarkozy has stressed the importance of "integration" into French life. Part of his tougher immigration policy is a new law to make foreigners who want to join their families take an exam on French values as well as French language before leaving their countries.

Karim, a former bus driver who says he is finding it hard to get work because of his beard, dreams of moving his family to Morocco or Saudi Arabia. "We don't feel welcome here," he said. "I am French but I can't really say that I am proud of it right now."

Source

 

[mediadave]

Karim, a former bus driver who says he is finding it hard to get work because of his beard, dreams of moving his family to Morocco or Saudi Arabia. "We don't feel welcome here," he said. "I am French but I can't really say that I am proud of it right now."

Gosh, they'll find it hard to get Saudi citizenship:

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Saudi-Arabia/Tools/Just-Landed-Guide/Visas-Permits/Citizenship

Your only route to becoming a naturalised citizen is by marriage to a national; even this, however, doesn’t guarantee citizenship, particularly for non-Muslims.

In exceptional circumstances only, the King might grant citizenship to a foreigner who has provided outstanding service to the state over a number of years.

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?art=1760&l=en

Riyadh (AsiaNews) – The Saudi government approved an amendment to the Nationality Law making it harder for foreigners resident in the Kingdom to obtain Saudi citizenship. The law now requires ten years of residence instead of five.

According to the secretary of the ministry of the interior, Naser Bin Hamad al-Hanaya, the law also requires applicants to have professional skills

 

[highlander]

I think what Im gonna say is a bit off topic...but I am trying to make a comparation.
A few years back a friend of mine- a 30 something year old woman worked a while in a muslim country. After that, her company shifted to Israel. After another few years she wanted to go to meet her beloved mulsim man (with whom she was pregnant at the time she departed from the islamic country, and afterwars had a baby with) in the first muslim country- which she was not able. She was simply not given visa because she had the stamp and visa of Israel on her passport.

Coming back to topic, hoping that this lady(the one from france) is atleast going to be allowed to stay with her loved ones, each country has its rules and customs, if we want to stay there, then we have to give in a litle inorder to fit atleast a lil bit in the community.

Anyway this article seems like another reason for propaganda which doesnt do more than to stir hatred between the french people and minorities.

 

[Brother_Mujahid]

She was simply not given visa because she had the stamp and visa of Israel on her passport.

the same happens with other countries and with different nationals...

If your going to use examples heres one...my bro didn't get a visa for india yet another one of mine was allowed in.

i'm sure if any iranian wanted to go to palestine to go to masjid al aqsa ill tell you now he wouldn't be allowed in the country.

 

[highlander]

isnt that so silly? its really sad all this kind of discrimination....too bad.

in the end noone can blame france for picking whom they want as french citizens...though as i said it is obvious in case that the woman already has a family and a life there.

 

[highlander]

Lool yah thats sooo cool.



I hate french people anyways. but then again i hate greek, british, romans, etc etc (except any muslim ones)

i hate them. why would they ever think this will eever benifit them at all?? :thumbs_do

When I read posts like this one I cannot stop worrying about the future of menkind. It is for people who feel this way- muslims who hate westerners for having different set of social and moral principles and because of westerners who whenever seen a mulsim start screaming "terrorist" and shoot as sight ( see uk troubles last year).

2. truemuslim, the blood in my veins is of one of the nationalities you mentioned hating. I am married with a muslim and my family is a peaceful and loving one. Never been any troubles related to religion, hatred or any discrimination based on these kind of things.

I hope again, that you too when you grow older, find the understanding and the respect twards other nationalities and religions since there is no need for hating eachother on basis like belief, nationality, skin color etc, but we should simply appreciate and like/dislike, hate/love people for what they are in particular and the way we interact with them.

 

[truemuslim]

When I read posts like this one I cannot stop worrying about the future of menkind. It is for people who feel this way- muslims who hate westerners for having different set of social and moral principles and because of westerners who whenever seen a mulsim start screaming "terrorist" and shoot as sight ( see uk troubles last year).

2. truemuslim, the blood in my veins is of one of the nationalities you mentioned hating. I am married with a muslim and my family is a peaceful and loving one. Never been any troubles related to religion, hatred or any discrimination based on these kind of things.

I hope again, that you too when you grow older, find the understanding and the respect twards other nationalities and religions since there is no need for hating eachother on basis like belief, nationality, skin color etc, but we should simply appreciate and like/dislike, hate/love people for what they are in particular and the way we interact with them.

i meant the racist ones that never look into religion, but look at the crazy people of the religons. :embarrass

 

[Fishman]

I hate ... romans

Caesar will have your head, Gaul!

 

[chacha_jalebi]

^ that posts signifies these words ...

OFF TOPIC!!

:threadclo

if anyone minds contact mr nobody, on 123 fake street,